Jim_McIntyre

I just realized, to the best of my knowledge, all these direct donations are not reflected at the MAAC office....

This skews MAAC's answer to the all-too-conmmon question (Ken) about how many donations are made to support FAI activities used in the all-too-common spin (Ken) about how many modellers actually think FAI is a worthwhile/popular venture.....

can773

My Feedback: (1)

To my knowledge only 1 donation went through the competition fund raising committee, so it would probably be recorded....the rest are only known to those involved with the team, and those who sent donations I am not sure if the other teams do this or not? I think we are pretty proactive for fundraising...it requires a huge amount of time though!

BTW....other than internet forums I have never had anyone tell me personally that they dont support MAAC's involvement with the FAI....and I have made it a point on occasion to ask such questions.

Jim_McIntyre

That's what I thought, believe others operate similarly.

Kevin, if you're listening ... is there some way to get this record-keeping fixed?

My experience has been similar, and I attend many large events in Southern Ontario from Ottawa through Windsor.
When I ask about FAI support, I often get a strange look, followed by laughter and how I shouldn't take ole Kenny so serious ... since nobody else does

DSLarkin

As a matter of interest, our club is always looking for meeting programme material so last night I took my tape of the NFB film "180 is Max" along. It is not a new film and it is all about a free flight World Champs in Sweden but it seemed to go over well. Certainly there was no anti-FAI hostility.
Bruce (bbair) was there so he could comment on whether that is a fair assessment.

I'm not certain if this tape is still available for rental from the NFB, but I think you can still buy it though there will be a bit of a delay in delivery. It's a great film. At least one modeller was involved in making it - Bill Pettigrew, now retired and living in Australia. He is into R/C Thermal soaring and SAM.

Jabba

I've got a question?

HOW MUCH $$$ does MAAC give to each competitor?

PLUS how much for it cost to enter a FAI event?

PLUS how much did it cost the competitor out of his pocket to go and represent himself and Canada?

How much do the boys from the AMA get from the AMA to go to a FAI event?

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

Good to hear that private/corporate support is being solicited.

That's the way it should be. IMHO [8D]

Jabba............. here's an idea! Instead of heading down the whiney road of whaa-whaa........why not find the answer to your own questions and then report back?

............Unless, you're planning on somehow linking this discussion to the CAC and that mess, in which case.....

can773

My Feedback: (1)

A lot simpler than it sounds...try getting $$$ out of US companies for a Canadian team....not about to happen...and very few CND outfits have the overhead cash to donate. Even getting good sponsorship on equipment out of the US is very difficult....we are better off looking to Europe.

The US F3A team was fully funded (including support crew) and drove Volvo SUV's to give you an idea of the money they get (through AMA and private funding etc.)....10 times the modelling population will do that.

The common figure used for newbies who are travelling is $5K per person for a World Champs in travelling costs alone, so that works out in pattern to $35K CND as we take 7 people minimum....that does not include models, entry fees, uniforms, team trial costs, any extra vacation time pre or post worlds, lost time at work etc etc etc.

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

..... I don't get it?

Am I supposed to feel sorry for you? Am I supposed to feel resentment because some AMA guys are deeper in the trough than you?

Bottom line is you are doing what you like and have chosen to do. What you have chosen to do is apparently expensive. Flying model airplanes isn't supposed to be a hardship...................if you have made it a hardship, do something different. If you like what you do and can afford it, do it.

If you are suggesting that you are performing some kind of self-sacrifice for my benefit, move your head from side to side quickly because you are not.

.....uniforms,(whaa) lost time at work,(whaa, whaa) vacation.........you have got to be kidding me? Boyz, you are flying model aircraft, you are not packing up some mountain in Afghanistan putting your life on the line for the sake of your freedom to whine about the rediculous without fear of some lunatic who wants to fly some toy through your forehead because you don't believe in his god.

No, Jim.........this isn't "Marcsist Hatemongering" It's looking at something selfish and stupid and saying........."Hey, that's really selfish and stupid"

jhelps

I wonder what the flash to bang time on this will be

JH

Ed Smith

Let us not tar everybody with the same brush. I have competed in five world Championship events. My attitude was never that I was being "sent" to compete so somebody else should pay. My attitude was and always will be, that if I cannot afford to pay for the whole event with my own money then I should not be doing it. MAAC provides some support, that is a bonus for which I am truly thankful.

That is the reason I will support MAAC in all of it's activities for ALL members.

Ed S

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

Again, Ed is the voice of reason. Make no mistake, my rant was squarely aimed at the author. I know Chad certainly is representative of nobody but himself.

Jabba

IF I knew the answer I would not have asked the question.....

BUT as you have said you were a ZD .... so you should be able to answer some of the questions.

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

1. Don't know

2. Don't Know (probably too much)

3. Not my concern.

4. Who cares.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Another post taken out of context by marc...how surprising.

DSLarkin

If you actually want the answer to questions like these then you should ask your zone director to find out - that's one of the things he is there for.

I could find out the answers but - why not go to the guy whose job it is: he can ask our FAI Chairman.

But I can give some partial answers.

It depends on the travel costs. MAAC funds a relatively small portion of the competitor's travel and uniform costs. I'm not au fait with the current amount but the FAI chairman is given a budget and divvies it up as fairly as he can. Ths is an area in which MAAC has been forced to reduce support.


The entry fees are set by the organizers to cover some of their costs. MAAC pays the entry fees.

A lot. Most (I think) of his travel costs, his accommodation and food costs, plus the cost of his planes and equipment. Obviously this will vary from event to event, but even free flight events are very high tech these days and therefore not cheap. Reserve planes are a necessity, plus spares. This is a considerable cost, and it will vary from discipline to discipline. And to start with it is necessary to buy an FAI sporting licence, sold in Canada for $50.

I don't know what the Americans are currently paying. I do know that some countries, like Taiwan, have been paying the whole shot including radio equipment and models.

The MAAC financial support was intended to minimise the need for a competitor to be really well-heeled to be on a team, but it probably isn't achieving that now.

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

I beg to differ with you on that one. The University of Windsor (Windsor Ontario Canada) had major sponsorship from Propshop Hobbies a Warren Michigan hobby shop last year in direct competition with the other universities in the US in the SAE Aerodesign Contest. They won the first year out against much more experienced US entries. This year they are fielding 2 teams and guess what. Even more sponsorship from Propshop Hobbies.

When I was on the team for a Leamington Ontario Canada resident at the RAM (Race across America) bike race both of his composite frame bikes with all rims and most support equipment came from a US bicycle shop. These ran at about $7 grand each. Again a Canadian involved in direct competition with US entrants in a US competition.

The sponsorship money is out there you have to work to reap the benefits.

Jim_McIntyre

No offense but, in this case, I think you're right.


I don't see any references even remotely similar to your objections. Chad and I may have our differences but, I refuse to stand idly by while you pounce on him for answering a question honestly. So you have little compassion for the uneven playing field in FAI. Fine. Still not justified.

This whole strategem being employed by the anti-FAI types epitomizes the situation where the wife/girlfriend asks "do you think she looks hot?" ... any answer will be pounced on ... it's an open invitation to a fight, any point made becomes moot as it is twisted to satisfy the underlying motivations of the handful of rabid anti-FAI types.[:'(]

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Being involved in SAE while I was in university things are much different...there is a lot more publicity around this and a lot bigger organization....

Try being a team of 3 people that no one knows about getting money from corporations who have no affiliation with MAAC....since I have been on the team we have approached many organizations...many times with inside contacts and each time are refused as being too small without publicity for their money. Now if MAAC were to take on some of this it might have some more clout and get the teams some money....who knows it could even offset the funding from the members with minimal time and effort on MAAC's part.....but thats a way out there idea that seems to get shot down.

You must remember when you approach businesses that have employees who are members of SAE they at least understand what it going on.

We have a position available to anyone who wants it called the team director...they are responsible for fundraising and a host of other tasks. To date no one has stepped forward so it is left up to the team members....who are busy getting ready to compete. If you would like to voluteer Dennis please drop me an email...I will be happy to discuss.

MAAC "pays" for nothing....MAAC cuts a cheque, 1/2 up front, 1/2 after all the managers and technical reports are submitted, usually about a month after everyone returns and has time to complete the reports.....what the competitor spends it on is up to him/her.

The reports are another thing....the team members are required to submit the technical report it cannot be submitted by the manager (used to be but not anymore).....this is one way for us to at least pass on some of what we learned to the public through the magazine...and pay back some of the money. Mine for this year still has yet to make it into the mag I know for certain based on the number of teams that many are never getting published....so that begs the question why the hell do we write them.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Jim, but dont worry about it....I come to expect such responses from marc...and mostly I check this forum to read them and get a laugh

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

In any group I have worked with raising funds a team director was never the incentive or the reason moneys or services were donated. It was the direct involvement of the principal competitors. They take the time to make the contacts, meet with and present their position and requirements. The company or people providing the support don't want some front man they want to see and hear from the real thing, the competitor. Dan the gentleman who raced in the RAM would take his bikes and a van load of equipment and set it up in the board room then spend as much time as it took to explain and demonstrate to those he hoped would donate. Sometimes it took him away from his much needed training but it was necessary. I may be reading your post wrong but it sure sounds like your group is too busy practicing to have time for the necessary glad handing you must do if you expect support. Especially from entities that have no idea what your type of competition entails.

No wonder you have a hard time trying to fill that spot. Me offer to work for such a group? Thanks but no thanks 2 teams for the university, flying instructor for my club, helping get indoor started for our club, MAAC Scale Committee (reworded the rule books), helping to organize the Second Annual NOOSE in Sudbury, trying to build a few new models and on top of that home renovations I think my time table is full. Besides the one key element in all these things that your group seems to be missing is the complete and dedicated participation of all those involved in the grass roots organizing and fund raising. Not one of these groups has even suggested using a team director to raise funds while the rest go off and busy them selves "practicing".

Jim_McIntyre

When is that Dennis? I'd like to wedge it in my schedule if the logistics work out.

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

Jim it is the long weekend at the first of July. It is a judged event run under the Fun Scale Rules

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

..... Apparently Jim, I'm not the only one who get's the "wrong" impression from Chad's posts. Reality or not, his posts smell of the insistance that he "deserves" instant respect and special treatment because of his perception of sacrifice and the type of flying he has chosen to do.

I think he flies model airplanes and if it is some kind of burden that requires his fingers in my pocket........even for the proverbial "cup of coffee"....... he needs to revisit his priorities. If I should develop a similar passion for a particular brand of flying and have the means to donate to someone who I personally feel deserves assistance, I would.

....entertainment or not, there is an underlying feeling that other modelers somehow "owe" him something. I do not.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Well you seem to have all the answers Dennis....

As I said we (myself included) have been down these roads with no success....I have spoken to many many people about fundraising and have found most are in the same boat with respect to fundraising efforts outside the hobby. The US F3A team is one of the most funded teams around and the only help they get outside of the hobby is with FedEx.....through a modeller who holds a very high position.....and its not cash simply shipping of their planes.

We have time in the winter to do some fundraising, but remember we are 1000's of km apart with only email and telephone to coordinate. We see each other at team trials then a year later at the Worlds....even getting uniforms poses a challenge let alone meetings with "potential" sponsors. Everything costs money...I have enough to fund my way to the Worlds if I blow a bunch trying to get sponsorship that never pans out where is the money to compete going to come from?

You mention practise...well I would much rather spend my time practising for a good placement and have great continued relationships with the sponsors I have then risk that trying to get "potential" sponsors. If you competed you would understand.

Its very simple to sit behind your keyboard and critise myself and my team members for our efforts....put your money where your mouth is and offer some assistance if you think you can make it happen.....because so far we have come up short in trying to get money out of non-hobby related industries. Hell one time we actually got a letter from a manager in Air Canada to waive the excess luggage fees ($700) only to have the clerk at check in and her superior not recognize it and charge us anyways.........

can773

My Feedback: (1)

I think you have some complex about me.....as you always turn a post I make to someone else into one about me....

Send me your email address I will internet transfer you $5 so you can shutup and argue about someone else....I am quite serious.

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