Hi Barry

Could you post the ECU settings for the various turbines in the Kingtech range to run on Diesel?

Also, what is the oil content requirement

Think alot would be happy to run on diesel if not detrimental to the turbine in any way

Thanks very much

Excellent support so far on this new clinic

Ian
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Under the RUN menu, there's no adjustment needed
Under the Start Menu, there's no adjustment needed for a propane start, but on Fuel Start engines, I would approach this challenge very carefully.
1) Make sure your engine is on a stand rather than in the plane and expect fire out the cone and as always, have an extinguisher by your side.
2) Prime Diesel up to the engine and leave GSU plugged into ECU
3) Start engine normally, anytime the temperature hangs 5 to 10 seconds, ABORT. Note the temperature hangs to determine what stage to adjust richness, most likely leaner, ie. Preheat Fuel (anywhere from 5 to 25 at preheat and/or Min. Flow at Switch Over
4) If the ambient temperature is slight lower, you may also dial down starter power at ignition, as well as ignition RPM and Preheat RPM
5) The ideal set up is to realize a steady rise of temperature and only barely specs of blue flame during switch over.

If the above sounds complicated and you still like to run Diesel, please consider the tried and true propane start, simple and fast!

Hello,

I have ran my K80F this Monday with Diesel on a test bench and using a 3S LiFe battery. AT first I got some 1 yard flames out of it during startup! But after a few adjustments it now starts smooth, fast and with about no flames out of it.

Here are the settings which I changed:

Pump start point: Auto +2 (My default was in Auto +3)
Pump start ramp: 008
Glow plug power: 7.6V (Initially with 7.4V)
Pump Pw Ignit. K: 020
Engine min. Flow: 050%
Preheat fuel: 040%

Also, running with Diesel, burning about 20 Oz (590 mL) of fuel and throtelling up and down, my engine temperaturu didn't go above 450ºC. It's about 200ºC less than Kerosene!

The only other thing I changed was in RUN Menu the Pump Pw limit. It was running in 335 at full throtle. So I took as the manual 335*1,2 = 402.

I hope this helps. And go for LiFe 3S! Smoother and faster!  

Thanks for sharing Kansog, great info.

Cheers,
Barry

hello Kansog
witch 3S life do you use?
Regrds

Hi,

I used a regular 2.100mAh 3S (9,9V) LiFe battery from Lightmax (Hobbyking)for testing. It should hold up to 4 safe flights. My idea is to use a 4.200mAh one, holding up to 8 safe flights.

Best regards,

Klaus

Specifically, what should the settings be for a 170F on diesel?

here you are.... sorry this is for the Kero 140 I did not have to change anything on the gas start.
Auto start +2
Start ramp 3
Glow plug 7.4V
Start power at fuel ramp 160
RPM 100% starter power 16000
RPM off starter power 19000
RPM to reconnect starter 18000
RPM @ ingiton K003.000 RPM
pump PW ignitionK 016
engine min flow 20%
EGT pre heat 104
RPM pre heat K 05.000
RPM fuel ramp 006.000
preheat fuel 024%
Ingition time out 27S
start mode auto kero

Hi,

Anyone have those 'sweet spot' numbers for the K-180G on diesel?

Hi Yellowaircraft,

after my initial testing on the bench with my K80F with the parameters I listed before I have installed the turbine into a Flacon 120 with some not that simplified fuel flow circuit which made me to change some parameters. In my experience we need basically to whatch out for:

Glow Plug power: 7.4V is enough
Pump Pw at ignition: Somewhere between 20 and 24 will do the trick (it really depends on the restrictions of your fuel circuit)
Engine minumum flow: I had 40% and had to increase to 60% after installing with my final setup
Pre-heat fuel: I had also to increase it to 50%

My initial testing I used Bio-Diesel S50 (50 ppm of Sulfur) with 5% BP 2197 oil.

Now I'm flying with Bio-Diesel S10 (10 ppm of Sulfur and with round the same level of ketone of the Kerosene) again with 5% BP 2197 oil.

My pump Pw at full throtle is now at 400 pw.

Summary: I don't think you'll get any specific sweet spot, but a styarting point from which you'll build up your own sweet spot parameters based on your installation...

Here's the Youtube vídeo of the turbine start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtOZYt7cMeI

Check the new Falcon!

Kansog,

Thanks, but I was looking for info for the 180, not the 80. Your Falcon is legit!

Hi Shaun,

Please refer to our manual, page 49:
http://www.kingtechturbines.com/doc/manual.pdf

Sorry for the late reply, been away for a while!

Regards,
Barry

Hi,

Duh. Thanks, Barry!

No problem Shaun, wanna meet up at Camp P tomorrow in the afternoon? I'd be more than happy to help you get it going on Diesel.

Barry

Barry,

I work tomorrow, but I can do Sunday?

Can't do this Sunday, but next Sunday?

So the temps with diesel are about 200 deg lower? Thats good news for thrust pipes everywhere

That has not been my experience; have not seen a significant drop in start or run temps on diesel on the K-80 or 140.
Regards,
Gus

Hi to all,

Can any one explain to me please why would you go on diesel????
I really don't get it, i mean it stinks as hell and as i read all the above, it seems to bee quite a thing to get the engine run right or am i wrong??
In my humble opinion, i really don't get it and honestly i'm really confused on this matter .....

Really don't want to stir up an discussion or "kick a leg" but i'm really confused as i said so it would be nice if some would explain why to run on diesel???? What is the advantage above kero or petroleum??

I'f it's only about low cost for fuel i REALLY don't get it, cause that would mean that you risk an $$$$$$$ plane flying on an none reliable fuel to save $ on fuel cost........
Thanks and regards,

Ed

COST is for me 2.10 for Kero a litre or 1.6 for Diesel a litre. Less oil with Diesel less cost. 20 litres used each flying session once a week. You add it up over a year and see what you save.

Kingtech runs reliable on Diesel for me. 140F and 170G run perfectly. You can swap between if you wish if you can get some cheaper kero or Jet A1 (free). The big purple machine wont allow you to do that.

Smell don't notice it.

Smoke on shutdown, doesn't worry me.

COST and COST

If I bought another turbine it would have to be able to run on DIESEL. Kero is refined Diesle.

So It's cost.

Okay that's an logical reason.
I will make an calculation then see if it will be worth the hassle.
For as far the big purple machine goes, done with purple, 2 buddy's got confronted with the "arrogant" service purple provides............

Thanks for the reply

Ed,
I grew up driving diesel powered John Deere tractors and the smell doesn't bother me as much as kero. With a couple simple changes to the ECU, the Kingtechs start and run GREAT on diesel. Diesel is available at about 50 gas stations in Colorado Springs (and every other mid sized city) at about $3.75 per gallon, whereas kero is available at only two places here (one of which is not open on weekends) at $5.00 per gallon. I'm not sure why anyone would run kero, unless they have a 'purple' engine and don't have a choice.
Regards,
Gus

Hi Gus,
That makes 2x cost and availability added.
Makes all perfect sense.
Im running the heater kero/petroleum witch is odorless. This is purely cause i don't want my car and house start to smell like diesel/petroleum/kero or what ever.
But once again don't want to start a big thing about this topic i was just curios what the reason was why any one would use Diesel if this is causing a lot of "trouble" programing/starting/running or what ever.
Reason is clear now, it's an purely cost aspect.
For your info i pay €52,- for 20 liters of odorless heater fuel (zibro) witch makes $70,50 for 5.28 gallon just because i hate the smell.........
I use the expensive as hell Aspen odorless chainsaw fuel as well for exact same reason in my gas plane, guess that makes my hyper sensitive on the nose then
Other hand, i make a living out of the gas and oil industry, so i really don't give a F... how high fuel prices are or get, in other words how higher the oil price the more work/$ i will make, so the more $ to spend on this beautiful hobby

Cheers,

Ed

At full throttle, with our engines, we confirmed that there were up to 10 to 12% better fuel efficiency while gaining 3 to 5% higher thrust running diesel versus kero. Diesel mixed with our oil is an excellent choice of fuel when running KingTech engines.

Regards,
Barry

I need a little education here:

I read posts where suggestions are given to "lean" the richness of the start for diesel. What settings are we talking about here? Auto+1 instead of Auto+2? Lowering Pump start ramp to 005 instead of 010? Upping glow plug power to 7.6v? Raising or lowering starter power at ignition, and/or at fuel ramp? What about all the other starter RPM settings? What effect does changing them have? Raising or lowering RPM Ignition K? What effect does changing Engine Min Flow have? Same for changing EGT End Preheat? RPM Preheat K? RPM Fuel Ramp K? Is "leaner" a lower Preheat Fuel%?

Sorry to ask such a broad question. I read the section in the book where all of these Start Menu items are described, but for me right now it's still clear as mud.

Thanks for any help here.