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Ziroli P38 construction

Old 01-18-2004, 01:12 PM
  #76  
JLB
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

I couldn't help but have a good chuckle while reading your last post. Not that
it was funny at all but that I did exactly the same thing last year on another
project. Amazing the names you can find to call yourself after an incident
like that. I also have a Ziroli P-38 under contruction and am just a tad further
along than you are but my time is limited so that probably won't last long. I have
a quick question for you. I'm trying to decide whether to make the landing gear
doors for the main gear a single door per side on one large door per side. I
sometimes think about things further ahead than I should as I have a flawed
mind but just wondered if you had looked at this issue.
Old 01-18-2004, 01:37 PM
  #77  
Falcon Jet
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

Andy and I haven't addressed that issue yet, we're still trying to decide on what type of flaps to use, split or fowler. What type are you using? If fowler would appreciate some tips on how you installed them! I'm currently re-building the nose I destroyed last night [&o], so will be checking back on occasion.

Chris.
Old 01-18-2004, 04:01 PM
  #78  
flying2bill
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

I can sypathise her is what I did last spring after a good day of sanding, all proud as a peacock of a job well done. A before, a mishap, and after the reconstruction
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Old 01-18-2004, 04:51 PM
  #79  
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

What happened? Looks like something fell on it! I feel your pain, today I managed to complete the nose section without any further mishaps, came out sweet, fit's perfectly! Andy will be proud. Keep your input coming everyone, I'm enjoying this almost as much as building the plane itself!!

Chris.
Old 01-18-2004, 10:35 PM
  #80  
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

By the looks of the "mishap" picture you were "quivering" with rage when you took it!

[:@][:@]




Mark
Old 01-18-2004, 10:38 PM
  #81  
JLB
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

Funny you should ask. I am wrestling with that one (flap type) right now.
The fowlers should would look nice but the split type is so much simpler to
install and I'm certainly not going to the Scale Masters. In the interest of
getting this rascal done by spring I suspect I'll cave in and do the splits. If
I change my mind I'll certainly share any tips if I get there first. Looks like
you guys are doing a first rate building job. Have a good one.
Old 01-19-2004, 11:59 AM
  #82  
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

JLB,

Would you happen to have any pix of your plane to post? Curious to see what your progress is. We have had more progress since the last pictures were posted but Andy is having puter problems again, so he hasn't been able to post our recent progress. Hope to get more done today and also get Andy's puter fixed!

Chris.
Old 01-19-2004, 05:25 PM
  #83  
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

The only pics I have are at about where you are right now so not recent.
I had to send my digital to the hospital last week so can't get any right now.
Will post something as soon as it returns.
Old 01-19-2004, 06:29 PM
  #84  
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

I'm doing some maintenence on my Ziroli P-38 (a main landing gear door blew off in flight and got lost, so I'm building another one). I took this opportunity to photograph my fowler flap installation. Maybe this will help some of you dcide whether to build fowlers, or split flaps.

This first photo is a view of the left inboard flap retracted:
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Old 01-19-2004, 06:34 PM
  #85  
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

The same flap fully deployed:
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Old 01-19-2004, 06:48 PM
  #86  
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

An overview of the actuating linkage:
[img][/img]
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Old 01-19-2004, 06:52 PM
  #87  
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

Detail view of the servo installation:
[img][/img]



These flaps are very effective, and not all that difficult to fabricate. They look alot better than split flaps, and have been very relable for the past six years of flying this plane.
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Old 01-19-2004, 07:10 PM
  #88  
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

Flydoc,

Pretty plane! Looks excellent! How did you mount your fowlers? Andy and I have been looking at all the alternatives on different fowler types out there trying to figure out which way to go with them, and which one is the easiest to mount. Any tips?

I just got through talking with Andy, he's had a rough weekend and was unable to come over and do anything. Apparently his computer fried on him, so for all those waiting for progress pictures, please be patient, hopefully soon!

Have questions on the lower formers (frames). F5B, F7 and F9B have a seperate notch cut into one side only. Which side does this mount, the right or left? I'm assuming they have something to do with the nose gear door, which if is the case, should be on the right hand side, right? The plans are kind of vague about it. Any input about it would be greatly appreciated.

We are down to the lower frames and skining the bottom of the wing so far. As far as the fuselage goes, waiting to get in our retracts before applying the sheeting obviously, don't want to get ahead of ourselves and regret it later. The flap question we are still dealing with, once we decide which way to go, will go from there.

Thanks to everyone for their input, you all have been a great help!!

Thanks, Chris.
Old 01-19-2004, 11:04 PM
  #89  
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

Flydoc,

I am at about the same place as these guys on my Ziroli 38 and would also like more info on your fowler instalation.

Thank you,

Jeff
Old 01-20-2004, 05:21 PM
  #90  
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

OK, here are some more details of the fowler flaps on my P-38. By the way I think Model Airlpane News has plans available for these flaps. About 7 or 8 years ago, they published an artical regarding them, and I used it a basis for this method.

The first photo shows the flap deployed in a side view. You can see the 1/4" carbon fiber rods which telescope into matching Carbon fiber tubes mounted in the wing.






This view shows the flap carrier assembly removed from the wing:






here you can see the guide tubes in the wing:




I hope this is helpful. If you have any further questions, I'll be happy to help if I can.
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Old 01-20-2004, 06:52 PM
  #91  
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

This info is available in Model Airplane News Workshop Secrets Book. I've built the same ones for my Z P38. They are not that difficult to construct but you need to do these before closeing up the wings. Regards G.
Old 01-20-2004, 08:16 PM
  #92  
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Default RE: Ziroli P38 construction

Thanks for the info and thank you Flydoc for the detailed pictures on your fowlers. Will try and hunt down the info on these, your right, they don't look that difficult!

Chris.
Old 01-25-2004, 10:43 AM
  #93  
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Default RE: RE: Ziroli P38 construction

Been studying the plans on flap installation and cannot find anything on the total degree of flaps. To all you Ziroli 38 owners, how many degree of flaps (flaps fully extended) are you using? 40? 45? If that info is on the plans it must be a snake!

Appreciate any info.

Thanks,
Chris.
Old 01-25-2004, 11:07 AM
  #94  
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Default RE: RE: Ziroli P38 construction

The first photo in my last posting of 1/20/04 shows full flap deflection, which is approximately 40 degrees. I don't know how that compares to full scale operation, but I do know that it is certainly adequate as far as effectiveness goes. Truth be told, my P-38 lands pretty well with no flaps extended at all. The approach is flatter and a bit faster than with flaps extended, but certainly not excessivley so. I use about 15 degrees of flap for takeoff, and apply about 1/2 flap for the approach. Full flaps are used only on final, when the runway is made, as the drag created by the flaps is substantial, and a go around with full flaps hanging is something I would rather not have to deal with.
Old 01-25-2004, 11:22 AM
  #95  
Falcon Jet
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Default RE: RE: Ziroli P38 construction

Thanks flydoc, I figured it to be around 40 degrees, but couldn't find it anywhere. You did an outstanding job on yours, hope ours comes out as well.

Thanks again,
Chris.
Old 01-25-2004, 10:33 PM
  #96  
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Default RE: RE: Ziroli P38 construction

Andy and I got some more time in today. While Andy was forming in the flap recesses with lite ply, I cut out the hardwood mounting blocks WM-5, WM-6, WM-5A AND WM-6A. Still waiting on the wing tubes to arrive, once we get them installed then will cover the lower surface of the inner wing. We're kind of at a stand still until we get them in.

Thought I'd give everyone an update, Andy is waiting for a part to come in to fix his computer, once it's fixed he'll be posting some more pictures. Will be manufacturing our flaps in the mean while.

Chris.
Old 01-25-2004, 11:55 PM
  #97  
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Default RE: RE: Ziroli P38 construction

Flap deflection is marked on the plans as 45 degrees. Can't tell you right
now which sheet it was on but I did read it. Seems to me that that might be
excessive but won't know till we try it. We were running the F7F at 40 degrees
and it was somwhat unstable. Backed it off until it settled down which was 28
degrees. Just one more thing to dial in.
Old 01-26-2004, 05:55 PM
  #98  
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Default RE: RE: Ziroli P38 construction

Here is a photo of my Z P-38 with full flaps deployed. Maybe this will add to your motavation to do the fowlers instead of split flaps.
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Old 01-26-2004, 11:16 PM
  #99  
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Default RE: RE: Ziroli P38 construction

Did the full size plans from MAN allow for the size between the ribs on the Ziroli P-38 or were they for the distance on the Yellow P-38 ?
Old 01-27-2004, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: RE: Ziroli P38 construction

Ok, I'm sold, those fowlers look great! They look so much more authentic than split flaps would look. Will talk to Andy about it, but I think that's the way we'll go. Thanks for the pictures!

Chris.

By the way, why did you choose to go with that color scheme? Just curious.

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