If you read the forums, the two planes that come up most often as recommended first sailplanes are the Goldberg Gentle Lady and the Great Planes Spirit.

The Hanger 9 Aspire gets good remarks, but they no longer make it.

So, if you were going to recommend a starter plane, kit, arf or rtf, what would recommend OTHER THAN a Gentle Lady, a Spirit or an Aspire?

Sig Riser.

But... that's so close to the Gentle Lady and the GP Spirit... might as well be recommending the Gentle Lady.

There is a VERY good reason these models get the most recommendations as beginner's sailplanes... For over 20 years the Gentle Lady has been one of the best beginner's gliders you could get. compare the outlines of the Riser, Spirit and Gentle Lady... essentially the same planforms. The Spirit's airfoil is better for speed than the Gentle Lady's. Its been so long since I built my Riser... I can't remember how its airfoil compares... I think its between the Gentle Lady and the Spirit.

Dynaflite also makes a 2 meter kit that is comparable... and its not a bad kit. (I can't remember its name... it looks about the same as the Sig Riser.)

I have all of them but none are completed, have not even looked at the Aspire, only instructions, couldn't say. All though the Windstar MK II looked great, it wasn't mentioned. If I wanted to get in air fast, the Aspire or MK II. SJ

Hey

Why u dont search the forum a little there is a ton of info about this question almos evrey other day some one comes up with the same question.

Saludos

Landi

What makes a particular model a good beginner's choice is often a blend of ease in building, flying and availability. Price enters into that third factor as well. The three top dogs (the Sig Riser fits in with the GL and the Spirit I think) mentioned here over and over all share high points in all three areas and that is why they get so many recomendations. You can't beat a magic combination like that.

And I offer the above even with the knowledge that the issues about parts fit in the Gentle Lady kits. Why in this day and age Goldberg cannot make a kit where the parts fit properley is beyond me. Even the new laser kit still shares the super sloppy joints of the old method. However the methods are simple and the use of gap filling glue by beginners that don't know any better still produces a simple but very sound model that flys so much better than the sum of it's sloppy parts.

My first plane ever was GL when I was like 10 or 11 years old. I never got to finish it but i do remember some parts of he wings not fitting well. Recently I built one and when it got here i was really exited that it was lazer cut and not the old crunch cutting. After building a while it had the same sloppy fit than the older model. Is it posible they made the lazer cuting template file from an old set of dies?? I think that's the only reason why they come out like that. Why they haven't fixed is still an unresolved mistery.

I have found that "Laser Cut" definitely does not equate to error free. The laser cutting reduces the number of problems but does not elimnate them.

Over at RC Groups I believe it was there was a long thread about the new laser cut GL and the findings were just what you guys found. A shame that. A truly accuratley laser'd GL would have injected a whole new life into a great design.

well in my 2 bucks worth i reckon they should redo the wing with a drela mod and spoiler kit also make a 100" version called the super lady , to compete with the riser 100 and make carl proud wherever he is in heaven , cause im sure he wont mind flying one with god who inspired his ideas , also the gentle lady was based on the dassel which a freind of mine has in his basement and the resembalence is amazing , the only difference i can see is the full flying tail. and 80" wing but whatever happens i think that it has and always will be a great design from the team at c.g , oh and if you dont like the parts fit scratch build at least then youll know who is at fault in the fit of parts..

cheers

Duggy[&:][:'(][:@]

The flat winged FAI speed record model Dassel? If so that's a stretch and a half. And your mention of the all moving tail suggests that this IS the Dassel kit. I'm sorry but if this is the one that you're comparing the GL to then you should know that the Dassel came out years after the GL and the only similarity it shares with the GL is the fact that they both have wings.

In the original RCM article Carl Goldberg made a solid reference to wanting a glider that was intensely free flight oriented to let him learn to fly RC in a painless manner. It was his first ever attempt to fly RC according to the article. Or perhaps it was his first RC glider.... The airfoil he chose is one that he used on many of his then current FF power models. The Hi thrust Viking in particular used this same wing section and build method.

Skybench Lil Bird or Big Bird

Laser Cut, easy to build and float like crazy

http://www.skybench.com/slbird.html

Don

no the originial protoytype version of the dassel which was made in austria , which was one of the designs mentioned in the originial article , there was a version of the dassel before the gentle lady , that was very simialiar in design...


cheers

dug[&:][:@][:'(][][:-][&o]

If you don't mind building a kit, You need to look at the NEsailplanes Kestrel 2 meter. This is a $80 kit and flies as good as all the above planes. It builds very light and is strong as well. It has a 3021 airfoil and handles the wind good. My longest flight was an hour after coming down to launch height 3 times and back up. Love this plane.
Jeff

Oh, THAT'S a relief. You had me going for a moment there

Sorry, I'm not really up on all the early Euro gliders so I don't know that one. But if you go back and look around at all the gliders that were popular at the time it's not much of an accident that the early Dassel and the GL should look much the same. Carl may even have seen one and gotten inspired by it. But it would also be just as likely that he put his free flight background to good use in designing the GL out of his own head exclusively. There's nothing new in the GL model if you look at some of the free flight models that preceeded it and the thinking that Carl described in his magazine article. Your Dassel may have been designed using much the same background and information and hence the similarity.

I like your thinking about keeping the planform and just updating the wing section and construction methods. Either as the original 2 meter or scaled up a little to 100 would make a great model.

If you don't mind electric gliders the Skimmer 400 from hobby lobby is decent and cheap. They die cut the ribs though.

I have a Spectra too, and a Sig Riser. These are both pretty good fliers. I would be wary of ARF's if your gonna put it on a high start. You don't really know how much glue they use. Use titebond and epoxy for the dihedral braces, and web between the spars. We also use fiberglas reinforced packaging tape on the bottom spar under the covering. It is poor man's carbon fiber

In relation to hi-starts and ARFs, I would not be concerned. We have lots of ARFs and RTF sailplanes in our club. They all hi-start very well, even off the very strong hi-starts made for 3M+ planes.

My RTF spirit has been winch launched many times. Under the control of experienced winch launchers it has launched fine. I broke the wing on a launch, but I think I put too much "pedal" into it. I am still very new at this.

I am sure some ARFs are weak, just as some kits are poorly cut, but the ones I have seen seem fine.

EPP Foam to start. Period ! Balsa breaks and Epp bounces. Hilander,Xr,Comanche,Zagi. www.fatlion.com

EPP for slope for sure but when it comes to thermal flying it takes a model of sterner stuff. You show me an EPP model that is thermalling and I'll show you a thermal full of hats, dogs and small houses as well as that glider...

If I'm wrong please provide some links. I'd love to be proven wrong for this one as I think EPP has a lot to offer for a beginner model. But so far being efficient enough to fly well in thermal country isn't one of them. If an EPP model can't come darn close to matching something like a Gentle Lady or a Spirit then it's not worthy IMHO.

I haven't flown one personally but the Gentle Foamy and the Defiant are getting some pretty good press on the boards for beginner thermal performance. I would summarize what I have read as perhaps not as good as a GL or a Spirit, but pretty good.

Considering their rugged nature, they might not be a bad first sailplane.

Here are a couple of threads on the subject:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=211395
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=185904

I like the Electron 400A (Ailerons) RTF from NEsailplanes. The Electron 400 is a tried and true design that's still a good one. It's not my first plane, but my first sailplane that I upgraded to from my Terry Graupner.

BMatthews, I have to really disagree with your post. I have been flying a EPP trainer for two years and successfully thermaling it *many* times when the lift has been spotty and light. As long as the airfoil is properly created, and the covering is applied smoothly, then I see no reason why a EPP foam glider cannot perform at least as well as a similarly or even more lightly loaded balsa plane. My 39 ounch 2 Meter EPP Highlander covers ground very quickly when I want it to, albeit not as quickly or without loss of altitude like a modern, thinned airfoil can, and yet slows down with 2 clicks of uptrim to circle in lift. I would say that for a beginner this plane has been *most* satisfying, and survived crashes that would turn a balsa bird into instant sticks.

I don't have any links (besides, how would you put it in a web page?) because this is my own personal experience. I cannot say that I have outthermaled anyone, but I *have* found lift that other fliers have then used, and I have stayed in the air just as long as those other fliers. The minimum altitude for finding thermals with my model is about 100 feet. Anything under that and I have never been able to circle tight enough to keep from descending.

One of the considerations of a first time model is the ability to keep the flier in the air. A Gentle Lady will turn to sticks the first time the new flier forgets to turn on the radio, or selects the wrong model, or doesn't launch with enough force on the histart, or pops off the winch without enough recovery altitude. I have made all of these mistakes and the worst repair I had to make was taking the servos out of the plane to replace the gearset - I was flying the next morning. So to become a confident and successful thermal flier, which is more important - durability and airtime or the ability to find light lift? I think the equation for the first time glider flier tilts toward durability, or the ability to fly another day after a typical newbie mistake.

All of the above goes *out* the window if you fly off a buddy box and have someone instructing you to fly. There is no question that a Gentle Lady or other balsa bird thermals better than EPP, providing you have someone around to save your bacon from those typical newbie mistakes.

Stuart
*just building my first balsa plane and frightened as h*ll for that first flight*

If you are a new flyer I've heard good things about the Multiplex Easy Star. They have a huge thread open that continues to grow. I've heard good things about the Push-e-cat and they might be making them again. These are epp like foam planes that fly very well and are durable.

Regards,

Easy Star is a great first plane for a parkflyer or even as a first e-glider but this thread is about unpowered sailplanes.

Nothing here that said no powered starter sailplanes. Ok I've been informed.

Based on my own experience I would not recomend that an inexperienced flyer be trying to launch a 2m balsa sailplane with a high start or a power winch. Going with an electric powered glider like the Easy Star would be a good first step, especially if they were doing it themselves. Also the new flyer has to be able to land the unpowered floaters without crashing.

Regards,

You are right, I didn't explicitely say unpowered. My mistake. However that was what I was asking about. Sorry I was not more specific. Most of the planes mentioned are unpowered.

Anyway I hear very good things about the Easy Star.