C roundy

Ok guys, so the first shipment of the new Saito 82 is in some of our grubby little (lucky) paws, I realize that your all still running them sloppy rich if you've had the chance to run them at all yet! But I would like to get the ball rolling to get as many responses as possible to see what RPM's guys are getting on which specific big diameter, low pitch props as soon as we start to get enough run time on them to get them dialed in.
Whats got me curious is that at first glance at its spec.s, it looks like it will probably tach a little higher than even I like to subject my 4-strokes to on the APC 14-4W, but a little lower than I like (and to slow spool up) with an APC 15-4W for instance...
Any and all, solid responses will be greatly appreciated!!!
Thanks in advance, Chuck Roundy

TimC

I started the breaking in process on my .82 yesterday. The only prop available at the hobby shop was a 12x8 APC. This engine seems to be a revver. When I started to lean the top end, the revs jumped to over 10K easily. I guess this is to be expected with an "over-square" design. After today's flying, I'll finish the break-in and post the results at the tach forum.

PaulSwany

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I just got a Saito .82.... I broke it in with a 13 x 6 MAS. I ran 8 tanks (8 oz) thru it on the test stand. Did them at the prescribed 4000 rpm. I mounted it on a Extream Flight Edge 540 and I've got a 13 x 6 APC on it now.... I've put about 1/2 a gallon thru it and it's running pretty good. I was getting sloppy thottle transition and so I leaned the low end a little... then a little more... then some more... till I though it was running pretty good.... The last flight it seemed to have a flat spot in the throttle... So I leaned the low end just a little more... We're talking 1/8 - 1/4 turns here... The problem go worse... So I richened it back up to where the idle was kinda sloppy.... That seemed to make it better... Still hard to find the sweet spot when hovering, but I think another gallon or so will cure that....

Over all.. I like the engine.

GarySS

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Which would be better on a Sledge.....an Irvine.53 or the new Saito .82? I think they both weigh about the same. The Irvine would run a 12.25x3.75 and the Saito a 14x4? Which engine would match the Sledge's flying and 3D characteristics better? I suppose it gets back to which is better for 3D 2cycle or 4 cycle??

C roundy

Well, I will have a first hand report on that exact comparison for you next Sunday.
I have settled into using Irvine .39's, .53's, and .72's on MACS muffled tuned pipes on all my 3D planes because of the absurd power to weight ratio this gives me, and because with two strokes, if the engine starts to lean out for any reason it will warn you with an audible drop in RPM so that you can at least pitch forward to fly out of your hover before the engine dies. Whereas if a four stroke leans out to much, it will just cough, pre-detonate, and seize at the worst possible moment.
But I've always loved the Saitos, and the power to weight ratio of the new FA-82 was impossible for me to resist! So as for my little Sledge 540, off comes the piped Irvine .53, and on goes the FA-82 to flight test! As far as differences in flight characteristics go, I will definitely get much more linear throttle response, and a much increased torque reaction on the big 4 stroke props...My little Sledge will spin like a top as soon as I bring each hover vertical[sm=bananahead.gif]

GarySS

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Wow!, I will be waiting for a full report.............

seanychen

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My Saito 82 after 4 tanks of running does the following:

APC 14x4W 15% nitro fuel:
10300 rpm, very good spool up

APC 14x4W 30% nitro heli fuel:
10700 rpm, instant spool up

I think this is the magic prop for the Saito 82. I wanna put money that Saito taylored this new 82 for the 14x4W prop.

If you go 13" prop, I'd at least use 13x7 APC or a wider 13x6 like Master Airscrew K.

C roundy

Yup, I finally took mine home and broke it in on my 2nd floor balcony, on my "Sledge 540"
After the obligitory 40 minutes of throttleing up and down while grossly rich, with lots of cooling periods, with my intended initial flight prop APC 14x4W, I ventured to lean it out somewhat, and put the tach. on it... and with what I am seeing ang feeling from the engine so far, I must agree; "I think this is the magic prop for the Saito 82"... We will see tomorow when I put it in the air as promised.............. I will give hard RPM numbers then.
BEST Regards, C.R

GarySS

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Oh no, is tomorrow Monday? I can't wait! Patience, Patience, Patience.......breath slowly, count to ten...

edgeman55

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Hey all,Yesterday I flew my Extreme 540 with the new 82.I have a APC 14x4W on it and man it is unreal.Ran two very rich tanks about 30 minutes on the ground.Then I turned the low end needle in 1 and 1/2 turns to lean.We are at 5000 ft mucho less air up here.Had two flights at 9800 rpm which was still way rich-Looked like I had a smoke system on it.Well my buddy has the 72 and mine on climb made his look like a slug.Hoovers at 1/3 throttle I can't say enough.Wait till this baby is broken in over the next two gallons.Also the spool up was awsome even with the wide blade prop.This one is a winner!

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

Tached my Saito .82 today... Had the 14 x 4 w apc.... 10,700 RPM after 1 gallon of 30% powermaster fuel...... Was throttleing really nice till my throttle servo gave up.... Damn thing... This is the second one!! That 4 banger really shakes the nost of this thing...

PaulSwany

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I replaced the throttle servo and this thing throttles like a dream now!! I can't belive what a difference it made!! I love this engine now!!

bugsiegel

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Paul,
can you post a photo of your linkage for the throttle?
I have never set up a four stroke and I would like to see how you worked it.

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

Sure.... It won't be till later tonight though...

ryontd

My Feedback: (40)

Interesting, I thought something really weird was going on and I just got two bad servos until I read your thread Paul. I put a Saito 100 into a TopCat and put the throttle servo on the top of the fuse. Anyhow I have had two go dead on me in flight just pulling out of a hover. I gotta say though, if you've never seen a Saito 100 in a topcat...it is absolutly insane to fly..truly a ahand full of power and very twitchy LOL

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

Here's the pics of my 4 stroke linkage on the Extream Flight Edge 540.

C roundy

Weelll, I finally got a good chance to put my FA-82 through it's paces on my Sledge 540 Tuesday [sm=surprised.gif]... After about 2 gallons of break in mud (15% nitro / 22% oil) run through the engine total; Still running pretty darn rich I read these numbers on my tach.

1) APC 14x4W: 10,400 rpm..., 2) unmodified Pro Zinger 14x4: 10,000 rpm.

As far as my real assessment of the engines performance in the air, and how to prop it best for this airframe with my preferences. I realized a couple things that had not occurred to me. First off, ya gotta understand that I'm doing a direct comparison of the performance of this Sledge on an Irvine 53 with a full wave muffled tuned pipe that turns an APC 11.5x4W very close to 16,000 rpm on the ground, and unloads to a full shrieking, snarling, howling, 17,500 to 18,000 rpm while going straight up within maybe 40 feet of liftoff !!!... I would charge from hovering on the deck to speck in the sky down line blender altitude at about warp 9 like I was launching a bottle rocket or something! Sweet mother of acceleration, I truly love that sight and sound[8D]

Think about it, the pitch speed that is... there I was used to those drastically higher rpms on a prop with the same pitch as the ones I chose to try first with the new Saito engine. But when I finally get out to the field and park this thing in a hover with the big 4-stroke on its big honkin' helicopter rotor of a prop, I experienced long moments of confusion about why the airplane seemed so different before the light bulb went off in my head[sm=sunsmiley.gif]

Actually when it started to hit me, I think what caused it was that I realized suddenly that for some reason the Sledge was reminding me of my "Airwave Design's Sukhoi 3D" which for those of you that don't know is a built up profile electric with close to the wing area of a 40 sized glow profile, but weighs 18 ounces RTF with a Li-Poly good for more than half an hour of hovering time on a Razor 400 geared down at 6.6 to one ratio and running a 13x6 GWS prop. Sure it hovers indefinitely at half throttle, and acceleration is instantaneous (all the way to a whopping 18 mph or so...) you get the picture.

Sooo, on to a smarter prop choice for my preferences,... Once upon a time in a galaxy far, far away, before anyone coined the term "3-D" or "hover-batic" my buddies and I used to fly hovering, Night-Flyer 60 inch Lazy Bees that weighed well over 7 lbs. with big assed 8 cell light system battery packs. Running Saito 91's on APC 13x6 sport props (there was no such thing as a big 4" pitch wide prop back then), we would tach about 11,100 rpm on the ground. I clearly recall the speed that they would rocket to the heavens with out of a hover, (we used to put the lights on a switch on the radio and play chicken by flat spinning down and see who turned their lights back on first)

Long story short, speaking for my own preferences only, with a carbon laminated Sledge that will not blow apart below 90 mph, which weighs less than 5 lbs, there really is not much point in running a 14 inch diameter prop with this new Saito 82. And I give up that breathtaking climb velocity that the piped Irvines have spoiled me with by doing so. So it will be a good old fashioned APC 13x6 narrow sport prop behind the spinner nut next time I'm at the field; and depending how that tach's and feels after some more fuel through the engine, I may try the APC 13x7 too...

Just so there is no confusion, I love the engine and it will be staying on the airplane, the blessed thing transitions like an electric motor compared to a piped two stroke!!!

Best Regards, Chuck Roundy

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

I ran an APC 13 x 6 on mine for a while... I liked it pretty well..... But the 14 x 4w is more my cup of tea... I like the slow stalled 3d stuff a lot, so I'm willing to trade ballistic vertical for low end thrust....

Gotta love that low end thrust...

Goinstraightup

My Feedback: (26)

Awesome thread guys! My 82a is still in the box and is slated to go on a Flip 3D (also in the box). Have a project in line before it so it will be a few weeks before I break it in. This engine is BEAUTIFUL! When you hold it in your hand, your mind is telling your body that it should weigh Waaayy more than it does because it is so light.

The engine will be upside down and cowled in the flip. I will be breaking it in with a wood 14-6 (or do you think I should go smaller?) on a test stand. Also, from the above notes it sounds like I need not worry about a pump. What's everyones thoughts on that?

Thanks again for the great info!

Jeff

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

I broke mine in with a 13 x 6.... Make sure to keep the rpms below 4000.... Run a bunch of fuel thru it... Mine didn't really start breaking in till after a gallon!!!!

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

i saw one today on a funtana that is one strong motor on a 14 x 4 apc comparing to the swap out of a 70os i seen this flyer go thru...

TimC

I found out today that although the mounting hole dimensions are listed as the same, it's not a "drop-in". The crankcase is fatter.

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

PaulSwany
how r u liking the edge is there any limits to your flying with this bird?

John Wells

My Feedback: (10)

Paul, I wonder if your throttle servo was why it was behaving weird on acceleration? Glad to hear that it's doing well now.

JW

C roundy

So whip out the dremel tool if necessary, .................... I can't help but note that it seems you stated that as if it should be a factor in ones choice in engines[X(].
As for my own experience, I can only say that I take pleasure in swapping engines on an existing airframe to gain more perspective on what each sort of powerplant really has to offer me!

And as for my little Sledge 540, I have taken the opportunity that it continues to offer me by running an FX-46, an Irvine 39, an Irvine 53, and a Saito 82,... so far....

If the FA-82 had been any narrower, it would have required shimming the beam mounts to get it on good with the mount's width already set for the "40" class 2-strokes. And I already had the opportunity to do that once with the Irvine 39, (which is really sort of a 25 size crankcase).

Either way it is really no big deal, whether you are grinding a bit off, or adding a shim. As far as the old holes go, just run a slightly oversized drill bit thru, and jam a bit of dowel stock thru them with CA glue and move on...[8D]

Regards, C.R.