Hey,
I want to go electric because glow fuel is too annoying[:'(]
Anyway, I like the ducted fan A10 from GWS.
Now here is my question:
what type of motors do I need for the ducted fans for this plane?
Also what type of power? 3 cell or 2 cell lithium poly? GWS just came out with a 2 cell li-poly pack but I also want to go brushless because the brushed motors seemed to be low on power...

IIRC, there are a couple different versions of the A-10. The one with the smaller motors and fans, the EDF50(?) version, can't be converted to brushless without some major modifications to the fan units. Those pinkie-sized IPS-D motors don't have a brushless "equivalent" that easily fits in the same mounting space.

The A-10 with the larger fan units with the "300" motor in them is an easy upgrade. You've got the Eflite 370 (4100Kv) and the Himaxx 2015-4100, which are both drop-in replacements for a 300 motor. Both will allow you to run a 3S LiPoly pack, which is the bare minimum I would recommend for such an upgrade. Why waste a motor's potential, I always say?

Ok I think I 'm going to with the larger fan version, I think I read it has 6 fins on each fan... its w/EDF-150
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=GWS1115

So, I need to know if I got those 4100 himax motors, can I just plug them in or Do I need to fool with some gear box thing?
2nd, what type of battery pack do I need aswell as what type of speed controller and charger?

Thanks.

Excellent choice. The smaller EDF50 version is marginal on power.

I think you'd be happy with the EDF55-150 version in its stock form, but Himaxx 2015-4100 motors should bolt right up with little or no modification. They are designed to be direct drop-in replacements for 280 and 300 motors. Other 2015-XX00 motors would require different size props or different batteries to keep the system in balance.

For this, I'd go with a 2-cell, or 2S LiPoly pack, brand of your choice. A ThunderPower 2100 pack will probably fit in the battery bay the best. It'll have to be able to withstand about 16 Amps at full power.

For ESCs, go with the recommendation from Maxx Products. They recommend a 10 Amp brushless ESC. You'll need one for each motor, because brushless motors don't share well. Castle and Jeti are the most commonly available brands in the US.

Charger? An Apache 2500 is hard to beat for a basic, small-pack charger, or so I'm told. I have an Astro 109.

All this stuff can be found using a simple online search, so no "Where do I buy?" questions, okay? I really hate recommending specific vendors unless I really have to.

Going brushless would certainly turn it into a rocket ship, and now that we've had this discussion, I'm sorely tempted...

Matt:
would a 2025-4200 be to much for the EDF 50 to handle?

Ahh looks like I found the 300 motor version!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...30&refid=store
Also this guys is selling a 3 cell LITHIUMPOLY for GWS:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...934886986&rd=1
but on tower,... they have a 370 motor version??
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXHCM1&P=ML

what should I do? heh...also you think the himax 4100 would be good batteries right?
Ok lets see:
- 2x brushless motors
- 1x A10 kit
- 1x GWS lipoly
- 1x GWS mini reciver

I already have a 22 amp speed controller and 2 micro servos. I'm not planning on installing landing gear because I'm on a grass filed and will probably hand launch this plane nad have it do belly landings... plus taking the gear out will decrease weight.

Alkaline,

Unless you go with the factory-recommended setup, electrics aren't as simple as picking the first thing off the catalog page. You've got to make sure everything works together first.

1. BrushLESS motors require brushLESS speed controllers, and each motor requires its own separate controller. You can't use a regular brushed speed controller with a brushLESS motor, let alone two. If you want to use your 22 Amp speed controller, you must stick with the stock brushed motors.

2. You have to be careful when selecting a LiPoly battery. It has to be able to handle the Amps being drawn by the motors, and it has to be the correct voltage. A 3-cell LiPoly's voltage is too high for the stock 300 motors; they will burn out quickly. You need a 2-cell LiPoly. As for the current, it needs to be able to withstand at least 16 Amps. As I said before, a 2S ThunderPower 2100 should be perfect for the A-10 with the 300 motors, whether you stick with the stock motors or go brushless.

I would not buy a LiPoly from someone off Ebay unless it's a known brand. Some people are selling substandard, useless LiPolys on Ebay, and you're probably just throwing your money away.

My suspicion is that when you tally up the cost of going brushless, you'll want to stick with the stock 300 motors. It's going to be around $250 by the time you get both Himaxx motors and both speed controllers.

Flypaper2,

The EDF50 is the one with the thin IPS motor. A Himaxx 2025-4200 won't fit without major modifications. You're probably thinking of the EDF55, for which it should be a direct bolt-in. The 20XX Himaxx motors have the same bolt pattern as the 280 & 300 motors. If you've got the motors, they'll work fine. I only recommended the 2015-4100 because it's lighter, has a Kv that's not much different from a 300, and will handle the power.

ahh dang... looks like its gonna be around the 400 mark for this plane
Guess I'll just stick to the stock ones for now[]
well Toms RC is pretty good I bought things from him, he only sells rc stuff and has a good feedback rating,
so what do you think about the gws 3 cell lipoly, its made by gws...

As I've said repeatedly, the 3-cell LiPoly WILL NOT WORK. You'll fry the 300 motors with it. Too many Volts.

ok I contaced him and he said If I pick up the speed controller from GWS made for the lipoly the 3cell will be fine, he said it has a down converter so that the motors don't fry.

I think I'm going to go ahead and pick it because GWS gives 1 year warranty, so if it frys I'll get a replacement...

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

I'm getting the 370 size motors and using 3x 11.1 volt gws lipoly pack

There's no such thing as a "converter" that will keep the motors from frying. He's either handing you a line of BS or doesn't understand what you're talking about. Does he know that you're trying to run two 300 motors? I doubt it.

The GWS is only a 1050mAh pack, and it's only rated for 6C. That means about 6 Amps, PERIOD. You can't run two motors that each draw 8 Amps from that battery! 16+ Amps from a pack that's only rated to handle 6 Amps? Forget it!

It makes no sense to carry a battery with too high of a voltage, then convert it down to what the motor needs. First, the plane is carrying extra weight from the battery. Second, it's carrying extra weight from the converter. Third, the converter is yet another piece that can break while the plane is flying. Fourth, the converter wastes a tremendous amount of energy!

On electric airplanes, we can't afford to carry around extra weight, and we certainly can't afford to waste energy.

Please, listen to me and get a 7.4V LiPoly. You will be sorry if you don't.

ok, where can I get a 2 cell pack tha will plug into the gws micro reciver?
so I would need 2 of these or just 1 pack?

Thanks Matt, I have a Vought Cutlass in the making that needs a powerplant.

Alkaline, as I've said multiple times before, I think the ThunderPower 2100 2-cell pack will be what you need. The ThunderPower pack is rated for 10C and has a capacity of 2100mAh. 10 times 2100 is 21000, or 21 Amps of capacity, plenty for your A-10.

You don't plug the battery into the receiver. It plugs into the battery lead on the speed control. You'll want something better than the little red "JST" connectors for 16 Amps. Deans Ultra connectors, which are what most bigger packs come with, are an excellent option.

Alkaline,

Check out [link=http://www.e-flightline.com]E-Flightline[/link], they do a good job of "enhancing" GWS warbirds. They also have some vids of the planes to give you an idea. I believe one of their 3s configs is with the Himax 2015-3600 and CC Phoenix 10's. E-Flightline also manufactures a slick gearbox called the "Cobri" that is a work of art.

Andy

Go to GWSexpert.com. They have a package deal for $210. [&:]

I have a couple simple questions, I hope, I have an A-10 that was given to me, it has the 300 motors and EDF 55 fans, I have only been able to get it to fly once, all other times it just won't gain enough speed to sustain flight and ends up just being very long landings, I am using a 9.6 1000 ma batt & one GWS ESC , it had been being flown using a 2s lipo pack & 1 ESC, I would like to upgrade it but not go to brushless, my reason is this,even though I have it put back together nicely,it is seriously battle tested.I didn't know you could break a plane in so many different places. I want to just get it to fly reliably and get used to it then buy a new one and build it up brushless. It is my first low wing so I am still in a learning curve at this time, If I put lets say EDF 400 motors in it and 1 ESC per motor, cutting signal wire from one of course to prevent mixed signals, will I be adding too much weight for it to fly good. also I don't want to go with lipos at this time. I really like this plane and want to be able to fly it succesfully
Also I had considered buying the fan units for the new walkera and using them on it, would that work with the 400 motors and produce the thrust I need for stable flight

hi guys...i'm interested in this plane...most if not all of the threads i've read involve upgrades to brushless and lipos...i'm interested in running the plane with the brushed motors first and then eventually upgrade to brushless...my questions are:

1. will a 9 cell 10.8 volt 1000 mah nimh battery fry the stock motors; and
2. what brushless motors can i use the above battery with

thanks in advance!!

Ahh, the inefficiency of ducted fans. The only way your gonna get that "pig" to fly is 8-9 cell nimh in small capacities. Try <1500mah. You'll fly for about 3 mins. Brushless will perform only a little better with that battery, power to weigh ratio not withstanding. With brushless you have to use a lipo 11.1v but not too big. Lipo's can get heavy too. [:-]

I was also thinking of one of those GWS A10s. Earlier you mentioned no brushless replacement for the little IPS motors in the EDF 50s, there is one I know of. It's made by Feigao. I have one in a GWS EDF 50 in a little jet wing I made and it's impressive on 3s LIPO's with a 2030 3 blade. you can check it out at balsa products www.balsapr.com.
They also have thrust data but be carfull I think the AMPs are of, I burnt up a 5AMP ESC. I get 152g thrust on a Feigao 1208428L with thunder power 3s 730mah. and Phoenix 10 ESC. I haven't done the figures but I believe this set up will be a lot cheaper as well.

Really interesting to read a thread that started so long ago, there have been so many changes and mods done to the A10 power system, I have had two different brushless setups. One thing that never gets mentioned is modifying the airframe, not for strength, but for aerodynamics. If you study it you will find plenty of things that can be improved vastly. Foam is great in many ways, but it has a downside, strength, which is made up for with thickness. Thickness is something you dont really want for control surfaces. Wing and tailplane chords suffer because of foam, and manufacturers like GWS build in strange shapes to some of the wing chords, the A10 being a prime example.

The A10 will fly nicely on stock 300 motors and 3s LiPo battery depsite what people say. Throttle management is necessary, but then any EDF requires this if you want it to last and get reasonable flight times.

Run the motors in first in a glass of water on a couple of AA cells, this is important if you want the brushes to last and not fry against the commutator when the 11v pack hits them! Think about it, brand new brushes are square, contact area to the commutator is minimal, hit it with large watts and you can imagine the result. Run them in underwater to keep them cool and get rid of the sintered material, the brushes curve to match the commutator, and contact area goes up enourmously, as does power handling.

With battery technology these days its easy to get a small light pack that will supply the needed 15-16 amps. A Hyperion or Polyquest 3s1200-20c battery is 100 grams, will supply 24A all day long, at 16A WOT its going to run very nicely and flight times will be fine with your throttle management. People go on about 7-8 mins being so short, well reality is most people are happy to get a good 5-8 min flight in with EDF then land, have a break, swap packs, recharge, fly again...

You should be able to build an A10 with EDF55-300 fans and a 1200-1500 lipo (around 100-130 grams) with an AUW of 550g max IE 19oz. With the 1200 pack, and careful build I would expect 520-530g. This includes CF strip through the fuse, CF 3mm tube through the wing, and either CF tube across the nacelles, or small strips of 3/4oz glass applied with polyurethane from fuselage to nacelle, both top and bottom.

It will fly, if you search through the other forums you will see many build threads including my own, lots of mods which are easy to implement. I wont go into brushless here as I been over it many times before, searching will find all the info one needs. Its a great fun plane and well set up it flies very well. My current A10 is 22.5oz, has vertical performance on a 3s1800 pack, and pulls 27-30A continuous!