Re: Amsoil 100:1

The carbon accumulation doesn't bother me. I understand some carbon is okay and an indication of a properly running engine. What bothered me was the scuffing. Before I went flying yesterday I added a little more oil to my mix to bring the ratio down to 65:1 (from 80:1) for piece of mind.

On a side note, I crashed (sort of) my Laser yesterday, and while I have the Brison 3.2 off the front I'll pull the cylinder and take a look inside and see what I got.

HI ALL: I know there is a lot of high teck imformation here...but I want to share something I found that really works. I will post it tomorrow when I got more time. Stay tunned....it works...with a lot of side benifits. Capt,n

I find the colour in the picture excellent. A picture book example on how a plug should look.

The doe (light tan) color extends right down the ceramic isolator to the plug body. The electrodes look in perfect shape. This engine is well tuned and happy! Colour much depends on gas additives and oil type, so the brown may shift to grey.

FWIW my Son sent in his DA 100 for a year end checkup and they found stuck rings. He was using Amsoil at 100:1 as per their recommendation, after breaking in with Lawnboy. He is mainly a 3D flier, lots of hovering. I know there are many variables but I don't think 100:1 is enough for 3D flying.

heat --stuck rings = too hot.
It isn't obvious that 3D will produce more heat - but it does .
you need good shrouding - richer mix -more oil and less prop load

This really seems to work. I read it on a can of Klotz oil part# 300. It not only works with Klotz oil but with every brand I have used. On the can it said the engine should be killed (on last run) by choking out the carb rahter than by ignition switch. I went one further...I reved the engine full throttle and choked it out at full rpm. Doing so really pulled in a lot of extra fuel and oil. I noticed the engine on my chainsaw or snomobile would start the next day without even choking. That was great!!! I thought maybe carbon would build up faster by doing this. NOT SO!!! I think the extra oil and whatever it may contain, would lossen up any deposits when engine was setting untill next start-up. I never had to de-carbonize any engine. My spark plugs seemed to last forever. I did take the plug out and soak it in a jar of laqurer thinner or carb cleaner, using another plug in engine while other plug was soaking. A blast of compressed air would clean sparkplug after soaking. My engines always ran great...rings stayed free...seals always stayed like new. I tell you...that extra lube in that engine after killing it with choke does wonders. I have been doing it for over 20 some years on all types of gas 2 stroke engines. Now about the best oil...I don,t know...but it is far more important to have the hi-speed needle set right. Having the correct carb settings is more important than what 2 stroke oil used. I will say Klotz oil says on can....will not burn in engine...thus leaving no deposites. About my engines...I have had guys say they would rather buy a used engine of mine than to buy a new one. Hope this helps someone. Thanks Capt,n

The reason they suggest to kill the engine with the choke on the last run of the day is so there is more oil in the engine during storage to prevent rust. I doubt any other miracles occur. Some synthetic oils don't provide as much rust protection as oils made from dead dinosaurs.

I was fully aware killing the engine that way, was to help prevent rust. The thing I did differant was to rev up to top RPM and THEN kill engine....thus pulling in a lot more oil and gas. Like I said...done it over so many years I know it works. Those that do want to believe something simple like this can help, well its just to bad. I do not know if you ever cut wood in the winter, but I could tell the crap that was normally just collecting on piston surface and ports ...would just blow out on the snow (on start-up) and was very visable. This was not just a simple try it a couple of times...it was for over 20 years!!! Every month during the summer even, I started the chainsaws up bring up to temp...then flood em out. Did the same with G38 Zenoah and it runs very good. I had a guy say he never seen a G38 with flywheel ignition idle that slow. Regars Capt,n

captinjohn, here in part is something that was previously posted on RCU and may tie in to what you are saying.

"One of the functions of good 2 cycle engine oil is to keep the carbon somewhat softer than if there was no oil in the fuel so that it can be burned, washed or scrubbed off to some degree as the engine runs.

Bill Krueger (OMC Engine Development 30 years , retired)"

Ken

It's fer darn sure -you can't hurt the gas engines flooding em to stop.
just leaves more oil.
I shut em down after they have been idling and in looking at em later - there is a film of oil in em - I am paranoid about running over temp so I don't have any carbon build up . just shiny clean throughout
Power is not a problem as the tuned systems are run rich till they hit full tilt. then power maxes because the engine is not fully soaked with heat.
If your spinner is too hot to touch - you are fully heated ---------n then some

HOT to touch BAD or a little warm OK?

yes

I am glad to hear that choking the engine off is the prefered method. I have been doing this for a while and prefer this to killing the power to the ignition. I too have realized that many time I don't have to choke the engine on restart or just on flip choked then start on second flip unchoked.

Dick Hanson. I too kill the engine after letting it idle. The reason is I want the enternal parts to cool down....then I rev to full rpm and throw choke to kill it. My reasoning is a cooler engine will not evaporate the incomimg charge. I do not want to loose any soaking effects wich soften carbon. The next day or when-ever you start up hopfully all or most uwanted carbon will blow out. Its great for the seals too. Never had a seal go bad! Regards Capt,n

Never thought about letting an engine run to cool it off.
How long do you let it run following a flight?

Elson,,, I've always wondered why you tested the "Pennzoil air cooled" so thick at 20:1 instead of 32:1 or thinner, the guys I know that use this oil are using it mixed at 50:1 for their BME 105 (as they were instructed by BME), after all it is a scientific oil isn't it ??

anyway I have been using H1R in my MVVS 35, but because of the extra fuel consumption, I doubt I get 15 minuets of flight time on my MVVS with 20oz, " 15 minutes seams low to me" and the higher running temp I have been thinking about switching to the Pennzoil (MVVS instructs to use no less oil that 40:1),,,

just wondering what your comment on all this will be.
thanks !!
Jim

Wasp,

Remember, the purpose of my test was for engines which will be pulling nets and working very hard for 30 minutes. Ralph suggested 20:1 because his racing team uses that mix in their race engines. For the sport flier, Pennzoil at 32:1 or 40:1 would be fine.

Elson

Elson - thanks for posting the results of your testing - very informative. This is making me feel much better running my Amsoil 100:1 at 80:1. Maybe I'll even go back to miking it 65:1. Good show. Cheers

thanks Elson,,, thans for your time and help !!

Jim

With Elson's permission, I have put together a compellation of his tests and their results on a single webpage. Many of us found this information very useful. While RCU is the preferred method to discuss the nuisances of this tests. The link allows the information to be preserved in it's entirety.


http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/articles/oil_test/

Very good and THANKS to all that had anything to do with this.
The time and effort is appreciated by many.
One question I have.
I noticed you said the BELRAY was Could you go one step farther, and in YOUR opinion list them from TOP to BOTTOM, from your test results and expertise.

Thanks

Sounds good and I will include this on my page as well. What I do find is interesting is the thought by some that either "Carbon is natural, expected, and will not damage the engine" to "The less carbon the better and no carbon is best"

I am not an engine guy. I have cut a lot of wood in my youth. Worked in a saw mill and worked with my granddad doing landscaping. I have never seen a 2 cycle engine without carbon. I will not say they don't exist, I just never have seen one personally.

Are our engines that much different?

Lustrox was an ultrafine abrassive glass cleaner that Duke fox used to hand lap Iron pistons. Never put in a running engine!

I've worked an rebilt all kinds of engines. My opion would be this. I would much rather have soft sooty carbon build up that would break away from time to time and be injested by the engine. Unwanted would be hard crusty brown carbon that builds up and increases compression and when it breaks loose ,scores the piston. I favor the Pennzoil TC3. Just my .02

RC BUGMAN Help me out here. You estimate your cost for test upwards of $3000 . I don't see it. What I see is about 10 quarts of oil ,20 gallons of gas, A motor which still is useable. Your outdoor lab looks like you used what you had laying around. Plywood ,gas tank, cart ,ect. I know you had lots of labor disassembling motor . Don't get me wrong , we aplaud you test. I still would love to see a Klotz test ,since half the glow fuels use this too !!!!!!!!