The AA jet props and the AA bipe props are the same.
At least on the older bipes. Didn't have a chance to look
at the 06 bipe props.

jonny, you can dial in the motors to harmonize- I believe
it's a G note on the guitar- bizzare!

I'm still going over this one. And I'm not convinced yet either way.
I still don't think a thick wing makes that much difference when flying
5 to 10 miles an hour. In windy conditions it doesn't matter one way or
the other, the AA won't fly properly. Indoors, maybe a slight difference.
Could you notice?
Now factor in airfoil design, wing design, wing area, fuselage thickness,
tail design, weight & what else, to the equation. Thickness is only one factor
among many.

Finally got a decent pic of the F22- in my gallery- showing where I placed the RX.

Just wondering, is there an AA for AA's? My monster project from yeserday came to a full stop when a lead to one of the jet motors broke. I took the motor apart this afternoon. Another jet goes under the knife. Tim

Neuro I'm also not convinced, just curious so it's the line that I'm pursuing. Also I was rolling my eyes at myself, not sure what all these smileys signify []. Agreed as to the many factors affecting slow flight, none of which I know much about at this point. Also agreed as to motors harmonizing.

I measured the extruded polystyrene foam from Slingwing, which their website advertises to be 3.5mm ( http://www.slingwing.com/retail_stor...tml#foamsheets ). I don't have calipers or a even a mm graduated rule! Jonny's an American. But the foam that I got, measures to 1/8" which is 3.175 mm. I used this to calculate the total surface area to the wind of the tri-platter design, without electronics or tail. I get 5.7109375 square inches, equivalent to a square 2.38975678"** on a side. That is the absolute minimum amount of air that I have to push against or slip through, while this thing is in flight. 7 layers of aluminum can material stacked, measure out to about 1/16". Obviously, aluminum can material doesn't have the rigidity and weight of extruded polystyrene but it is an interesting comparison. I'll have some aluminum can material with me to weigh as well as the eps, when I go to Thayer school on Monday.

I can't seem to find the lists of weights on the aatoolbox site, is aluminum can material weight listed anyone? -john

**edited this figure for accuracy.

neuro, the props have a different pitch. I discovered this when I tried to put an bipe prop on the jet that broke a prop. Instant death spiral. I swapped out another jet prop and the plane flew perfectly. Last night the motors sounded terrible, I just finished swapping out a motor and props and it sounds great. If you look at the curvature of the props next to each other it is a visible difference. Besides losing a gram, redesigned props may be why the later 05 to present AA's fly so much better. Tim

Ok, pulled the motors back until the TL is 1/8 or less from the prop. I cut the nacelles off for mounting purposes, I'm now going to glue them back on. They seem to serve as anti warping devices. The first flight, trimmed out and with jet props was great. All the power of the jet, including speed, and the handling of the Bipe. This a truly worthy mod. If your doing a straight switchover, jet to bipe, it should take about an hour. If you trim out the motors and mounts add another 45 minutes. Altogether a worthy switch. Tim

I see what you're getting at. Take an aluminum coffee can lid and whip
it through the air. It slices, not really flys. Trying to find something tens
of thousands of an inch you run into the problem of strength vs. weight.
Aluminum is thin but weighs a lot. What about pressing carbon fiber?
Or fiber glass or epoxy resin sanded down razor thin? Some resins are
light yet very strong. You would have to make a mold, pull it, then sand
it. Might take hours just sanding a wing.

FERNDALE, I don't see any difference in pitch.
The only difference is one's a right & one's a left.
I believe what caused your spiral was you had two left's on the plane.
(Or two rights)

Neuro, I know that you know more about these things than I do. If the props are the same, why did the jet gear rattle and barely fly with bipe props? I took a white marker and marked L and R. I installed the props the plane flew so poorly that I went looking for motor issues. I put the jet props on and I have a viable aircraft, and I'm trimming it out. Swap your props between the planes. In my experience, it doesn't work. Tim

PS On that first swap of props, I took a right prop of a bipe and put on the right motor of the jet. I also marked the prop so it went on correctly.

My 1st Aero Ace I got is starting to have some issues with the motors cutting out for a split second over and over again. Ive flown the crap out of this plane and its been in a lot of crashes, so that might have been the cause.

I have a feeling I just need to take it back if I can, I bought it from TRU a couple weeks ago but never got the $5 warranty.

The others aces I have are great so far.

I have to admit I'm feeling a little annoyed about this. I made a living as a BMW/Mercedes tech for several years, figuring out minute differences was part of my job. Now I am a custom fabricator, albeit for restaurant front ends, figuring out minor differences is what I do. Tim

Smooth -As I said on another thread to you Take the sucker back. You have 30 days at Target and 90 at TRU. Don't put up with a defective plane. A significant portion are and the stores have been good at exchanging them. Just don't debate it so long you get beyond the return date - I did that once and never again.

Well.....I liked the long post. Very informative and interesting.
Agreed that there are many factors other than thickness that have big time effects.
I was just curious if anyone noticed or tried 2 wings of different thickness's of materials.
Depending on the flight characteristic you want , thicker may be better. But if you had a decent flying plane with 2mm Depron, but wished it to be a little faster a 1.5mm wing should be faster.
If the wing is undercambered like the AA......faster = more lift. This may be a problem. I guess it all depends on what type of plane it is, how you want your plane to fly and the type of airfoil being used.
Jets on the other hand want to be fast....using an undercamber is against its fast forward flight, unless it weighs a ton and you need the extra lift.

Maybe I posted it in a thread and not to the ToolBox. If so , my bad. I'll send it on to the ToolBox. Surely someone can use the info.

It won't let me upload it! .txt, .pdf......error on file type. Changed it to a .jpg image.


Tony
ARS Software & Innovative Solutions
http://www.falcon1.net/~ars/rcmodels.html

In business, as you know, cost is a main factor.
Why would you retool for a different prop when you are already set
up making props? Especially on an item being sold for $30.
The props are a plastic which is injected into molds. Making the molds
is an expensive process. If it were my bussiness I would continue using
old stock.

You're right about the undercambered wing slowing the jet down. A straight
wing would be faster but you would loose lift in the process. Climbing would
have to be done in the wind as well as landing.
On this new jet I'm cutting, it weighs less, about 5 grams, so I'll try a flatter
wing.
It also weighs more with the N20's, with the AA RX and lipo, weighing out at
about 20 grams total. So that means I should increase the up elevator?
Wouldn't increasing the angle of the stabs also increase drag, slowing the jet
down?
I'm really cutting it close to the 1"- 1gm wing.

To come out with the Rev.3 SuperSkids, which are entirely new except for the CF battery rods, cost thousands of dollars. Tooling for the molds was the most expensive part.

You are on to me! What you and others here know from much practice with small scale aerodynamics, I still cannot get my mind around (longer air path on the top of a wing, creates lift, Is is really just adding drag to force angle of attack, or effectively negating turbulence? If you don't, and go with a flat wing, does the resulting turbulence from forced angle of attack then add drag? Is there really any turbulence at all at 5 - 10mph with a non-flapping wing, apart from the props?). All rhetorical questions, I just can't grip the concept completely yet. Need more practice.

The Gorilla Glue that I use for lots of other things, came off of my model very cleanly - was strong, and light. Maybe I could mold a wing from that. Problem is it's expensive. It is an interesting blend between foam and glue though, add a little moisture to it and it foams, less and it's more rigid and solid.

Mega, my canards are from balsa. Would that qualify as an underwing? They certainly change the way a mono mod flys.

Nuero, I truly understand start up costs. I have decided that there was another cause to the first dreadful flight. I just don't know what.

jonny, the best thing to do, and I've been wanting to build a simple one
for some time, is make a wind tunnel.
This site is interesting- [link=http://www.worthey.net/windtunnels/]wind tunnel connection[/link]
Click on the page "Learn More about Wind Tunnels"-

Interesting site! looks easy to construct one, thanks for the link. Got to get through the mosfet mod, vacillating on which plane to gut, '05 B channel bipe, '06 B channel bipe, or '06 A channel jet. I did some research and my favorite answer was .5 oz/aluminum beverage can - 14.175g. On the edge of promising, but I'll know for sure Monday.

Question to all - has any electro-genius out there ever been able to replicate an aa rx to any degree?

Has anyone heard from AAmods recently? My light mod appears to have a loose connection, but it is fairly new. I don't want to put it under the knife unless I have to. Off in search of the elusive picco z and AA bipes. Tim

8 flight attempts, varied configs. This is best so far. about 10' then stall with minor altitude gain, maybe 1' above launch height. Electronics mounted on lowest wing result in cartwheels (circular climb then dive with overall loss of altitude), maybe 2 from 5' launch altitude then crash. All attempts stayed straight until stall, then crash. 2 pennies at lowest wing delayed stall best in last flight, but overall weight probably too great for sustained flight. Falling back to think through results, going to bi-wing config, or eliminating tail, may be next. Electronics undamaged thus far. - john

Anybody have any ideas on where I might be able to get components like those used on the AA? I just got one and want to play around with other builds but don't want to take apart the AA- too much fun?

Sometimes you can spend just as much time trimming as you did building.
I have no idea what to suggest except placing the wings closer together.
I don't suppose you want to add dihedral to the wings? That would upset the
design you're going after. What a ballancing act!

Finished up my latest jet. About 3 hours to make. 1 hour just sanding until
I got the TE to a point. Half the wing has been sanded to 2mm.
Weight after gluing the tail pieces = 6.2 grams.
Wingspan 9.5". Length = 10.8".
Used the HOT setting on a hair dryer to curl some dihedral.
Glides nice with minor weight, don't know yet how it will handle 15 grams of AA.

Neuro, you're killing me ova heah tri-platter, without a tail or electronics, and with 5 pennies stacked at the circle, will glide like a champ. Add thrust and it's all over! I don't have wire fine enough to extend the motors high enough above, without adding excessive weight. I will definitely have to angle motors. You got it, serious balancing act, quite possibly impossible. But what the heck, I'm in no hurry. Thinking about rigging up a sort of dog-run with monofilament and hang the plane from that, so I can test without all the crashes. Your plane is great, much finesse & attn. to detail really shows!

Vermonter! http://www.aeroacemods.com/aam/parts/ By the way, last news I've heard re: aeroacemods was 2 weeks ago friend received shipment, no probs. Looks like the website needs updating. I'm seriously considering purchasing several rx to send to Megabyte2 for modding he is a solid resource. I just emailed them to check availability.