Thanks Nick, as always, great ideas and fun stuff. I'll try that turning mod soon, I've got a cold solder gun I haven't used yet, should be perfect for that.

That doesn't sound right, it would be pretty hard to stop and start in the air with any success at 2 full seconds. I fly that way all the time...climb up, throttle off, glide down, when it's a couple feet off the ground I throttle up and it comes to life with just a split second delay.

I'd consider taking it back for another one, all 4 of mine start up almost instantaneously.

http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/searc...uctCode=MINBIP

well hi there,

im J

none of you will probably remember me but i found a link to an english aero ace, couldnt be bothered reading the entire thread to see if any1else found 1

My first AA died, and I was wondering if i could put the old batt into a new one for a longer flight?

hi J,

yeah, those are the Silverlit X-Twins, the original version of what AirHogs now calls the AeroAce (silverlit was the original manufacturer of them, the SpinMasters bought the right to sell them under the Airhogs AeroAce name). i bought the X-Twin Biplane and MonoWing versions on ebay before AirHogs was selling them in the US (except for a few states). they're virtually identicle planes, just differant paint jobs. i dont know if Silverlit is updating the RXs and TXs like Airhogs is, they havent had the x-twins on their site for a long long time.

schuh007,
do you mean using both cells at the same time in your AA? if so, then yes you can, but i would suggest wiring them in parallel. if you put the two cells in series, the RX and motors would be getting 7.4volts, and though the RX might be able to handle that, i'm sure those little 6mm motors wouldnt last for more than a few flights.

nick

ok, i will

Im just gonna but a new one ,i cant find a new little motor and i dont know why i died

these little coreless motors sometime suffer whats called "the yellow tape of death." the manufacturers of most of these motors use a little bit of tape to hold the windings tight, but sometimes if the motors gets warm, or even for just no reason, that tape lets go and jams everything up. its possible to take the plastic endbell off and remove the tape, but its a pretty time consuming (and sometimes painful) process. you can get replacement motors here: http://www.bsdmicrorc.com/products.cfm?catID=10005 scroll down to the bottom of the page and you'll see the selection for the 6mm pager motors. stock AA motors are 5.3 ohm, so i'd go with the 8.5ohm motors (MK06-8.5), as the 4.5ohm ones might be too hot for the AA's propellers. i'd buy two, and replace both at the same time, using one 8.5ohm and one 5.3 ohm will probably make it want to turn while flying. using 8.5ohm motors should give you a little extra flight time too.

nick

thanks Nick...man, how'd you come to learn all this stuff? What do you do for a living?

no problem

i've been flying RC for about 2 years now, and the last year has been devoted almost entirely to micro flying, so i've picked up a lot of the basics over that time (still a LOT to learn however). i've also had the XTwins/AA for almost 6 months, so i've had pleanty of time to play with them, i also talk to a lot of other very well informed people who know a lot more than me (i live vicariously through their intelligence! )

unfortunately, my current job has nothing to do with RC. i work in a machine shop, as does my step dad. only benifit of that is if i ever need something turned on a lathe, or even if i might need CNC access, i can probably get it.

nick

yeah nick like I said, you're one heck of a guy. I work in a bike shop, and, as I'm 15 and not 16, I only wash bikes, lube them, and throw away the boxes they came in along with helping the real techies at the shop. going on though, I was wondering if you could possibly post some pics/plans for one or two of the micro planes you built with the AA guts. Thanks!


PB_2

PigBoat, the Wright Brothers only messed around with bikes too...for awhile.

Nick, I'll second that request too, would love to build some of the little micros like you've created. Maybe there's a whole career for you guys in this, who knows? I'd sure buy one from you if it could even just match the AA performance. I'm thinking of buying some components from that link you left, Nick, and making some micro flying wings, that should be a hoot. And some really lightly wing-loaded, super-slow calm air floaters. Not that you can get a whole lot slower than the AA.

I had both mine out this morning in 22 degree, clear, calm morning air. They each (B and C channel) got 13 minutes air time, which is just terrific. I'm sure there are guys like me who'd like to build micros like you're doing but just don't have the time, or skill.

here ya go guys: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3773941/tm.htm i started that thread a while ago, and got sidetracked when i picked up a new AA. i thought i had finally toasted my first two xtwin RXs, but it turns out that the contact pad on the PCB of the throttle stick in the TX was really worn out. i've got a couple ways i can fix it fortunately, so hopefully tonight i can see if my Mosquito will fly.

i bought all my first "real" micro equipment from bsdmicrorc.com and still use them to this day, they're really nice people. its fun going and flying an RTF plane like the AA, but nothing quite beats building your own plane and watching it fly for the first time. its quite rewarding.

nick

Thanks!

Good luck

It's got to be. Looking forward to building some of my own, thanks Nick.

Cool videos of the landing gear mod for the Aero Ace www.aeroacemods.com/aam/gallery/

Excellent! thanks!!!

Tom

can someone tell me why I cant open this page? thanks
http://www.aeroacemods.com/aam/gallery/

Try it again, opened fine for me just now.

Tom

Were you able to access aeroacemods.com ok? It should work on all popular browsers. Let me know if you are unable to acces.

Have fun browsing!

I took the stuts off one of my AAs yesterday but left the wings...don't remember seeing in this looooong thread if anybody else has done that.

Anyway, flies about the same...probably climbs a bit better with the lower weight and drag, those struts are pretty blunt. It was breezy and snowing yesterday, couldn't really compare the performance

Next I'm cannibalizing up that crappy flimsy GWS Piper Cub slow stick thing with the useless wood fuselage stick, which was bowed and twisted when I got the kit so I could never align the tailfeathers (excuse the rant [:@]) and extend the top wing and see how the AA flies. Then extend the bottom wing too. That wing foam is very light, should be an interesting experiment. I wouldn't think CG would change, but we'll see how controllability is, and I'll post some pics when I do it.

I entered the world of microbuilder and other stalwart DIY aerodynamicists and extended the top wings on my AA, as the pics should show. The Slow Stick Cub from GWS had an identical leading edge curve, so taping it onto the AA was a breeze.

The extra weight was about .1 oz., all up weight now is still under .7 oz according to my scale. I think the wing addition added about .115 oz. Pretty doggone negligible.

FLIGHT REPORT!:

Well, it was just abit breezy, but that was enough to require a couple c-clamp on a line retrieves from the local trees in my back yard. So more experimenting and adjusting is required in calmer air.

THE GOOD:
1. Climbs like a super sailplane...if I put it in a turn, it climbs in the turn.
2. floats floats floats...at the lowest throttle setting, flies straight and level or slight climb...wind made it hard to tell
3. Clearly has thermal potential, which means I better not take it anywhere I don't have the possibility of a long retrieve. This little baby would corkscrew out of sight in a heartbeat.
4. Flies even SLOWER than the AA...really floats around...or maybe it's my imagination, since it's a bigger-winged bird now, perhaps it's scale illusion. But sure seems to be noticeably slower.

THE BAD:

1. I think it's pretty badly out of CG now. I'd thought to have a little more trailing edge sticking back to move the center of pressure back and improve tail heaviness. (I only have a couple t-pins in the nose which helps the stock config mostly at minimum throttle...still porpoises on higher throttle settings, with neutral tailfeathers. SYMPTOMS: Even with down elevator, still climbs. In a bit of little gustiness, pitches up radically, enters into a PIO (pitch induced oscillation), which leads quickly to loops! I haven't dared get it very high to see how many I could do because it's so hard to control.

2. Rather resistant to turn input, I'm guessing because the engines need to be further out. Guess I'll solder some wire onto what's there now and move the engines outboard.
It also might need another dihedral to stabilize, i.e. more bend at the joint. It gets spirally instable pretty quickly. Which means I should probably extend the tailfeathers.

3. The extra wings are thicker than the AA's stock wings at the TE...I didn't mess with it too much, although I did heat it up with an iron and squish it down some, but it needs more attention.

THE UGLY: Throttle off it goes into a spiral dive for the ground...adding throttle to save the day sends it into a radical pitch up and loop, or half loop...hard to get control back. This is probably because I had down elevator to counteract the increased pitch under control...not sure, I need master builder MICROBUILDER to puzzle this one out, I'm a rank newbie at knowing what to do for sure.

But...it flies.

Possible remedies in addition to above:

1. I may move the additions slightly forward and see how that affects CG...
2. Should move battery forward as reported here before, that seems to be a good mod.
3. might make the tailfeathers bigger too
4. might just design a whole new airplane...but it's fun to have a soarable bipe, because it certainly is a featherweight thermal climber now...once I get it under control![&:]

that made me laugh out loud i certainly wouldnt call myself a master of anything, except maybe procrastination (no one can put something off better than i can!). but a master of micro building, well, i wouldnt go that far personally, i've just been doing it longer than some. in comparison to MANY other people i talk to, i'm a rank newbie as well, even after a year or so at doing this. micro planes are a completely differant breed than any other RC planes, they require a lot more attention to detail. some things that you'd never notice, and would never affect a normal size RC plane, will cause major havoc with a micro plane. its all in the details

anywho, i'd say your CG is off, as you said. with that much additional wing area and lift, its no wonder, i can only imagine how easily it can climb. it looks pretty cool too, i like the look of the stubby bottom wings with the huge wing above it. i'd start adding weight to the nose, or put the battery further forward. even after putting the cell forward, you may still need extra weight to balance things out, but the extra weight will be worth it, a well balanced plane controlls a lot better. i attatched a picture of how i modified my AA to access the lipo for charging and CG movement, hope it helps.

if the plane spirals down without throttle, it sounds like one of the wings or tail feathers is out of alignment. look at the plane from directly in front of it, make sure the wings you added are symetrical, and that the leading edge and trailing edge of the wings are similar. with that much wing with so little weight, it wouldnt take much of a bend here or there on the wing to cause it to turn and dive. adding some extentions to the tail feathers probably wouldnt hurt either, it may not need it, but there's only one way to find out.

as for moving the motors out further, you dont need to add extra wire. the motors have quite long leads on them. i cant remember off hand if you can pull the wire through the frame and wing while its still all together or not though. also, if you point the motors in a little bit, it should help the turning (looking at the plane from above, the motors and props should point in towards the tail).

here's hoping for calm winds!

nick

Question for somebody who has removed the lower wing and added it to extend the upper wing. I have attempted this several times with each having the same result. The plane lifts well until I turn, even slightly. The plane will go into a downward spiral. The only way to counteract the spiral is to turn the other way then the plane begins to spiral in that direction. Somebody mentioned that the dihydral of the wings wasnt sufficient. Has anybody else encountered this spiral after modifying their AA and, if so, how was it corrected? I've tried fishing line attached to each wingtip to give it more dihydral - no luck. Any suggestions? Maybe I'm not attaching the extended wings correctly. I simply tape them to the existing upper wing with thin packaging tape, making sure that the leading edge and the ends are as flush as possible. The extended wings always seem to bend slightly downward no matter what I try. I was thinking about underneath support for the extensions but was concerned about adding too much weight. I tried to make my wings look similar to those shown in Big Milo's movie as he seems to have been successful in this mod.

Thanks Nick, I'll give all that a try. And don't sell yourself short...there's always somebody who knows more, but you're way up there...just look at all those neat little micros you built, and all you've shared online about micro electronics. You're a hero in my book, I always appreciate your posts because I learn something. [8D]

gfl, I hung longer, heavier wing extensions on mine, see the above post, and had a similar problem. Read microbuilder's response above, maybe that will help. I don't have the droopy wing thing (which I think would add in anhedral, which would add instability. The fishing line might add enough drag to make it worse, can't say. When I taped mine, using very light weight but very sticky colored tape I got from an online tape supplier (it's in a thread, I can't find the info right now) I stuck the tape to the extension first, butted it up against the AA wing, then pulled the tape toward the fuselage as I stuck it down to the AA wing, to lift the wing tip up and put tension in the tape. Then quickly taped the bottom too. It's solid and no droop, you can probably see so in the picture.

The spiral dive may be like microbuilder said about mine, that one wing is slightly lifting more than the other. Once I get the cg balanced, I'll do power off glides and trim as needed. Maybe the same will work for you.

UPDATE:

I cut the extensions back from the trailing edge forward. Flies muuuch better now.

I haven't even done the CG adjustments Nick suggested, I just added another T pin for 5 total, which also helps.

Observations: Any breeze wants to really take it and run with it, but...it's no longer so spirally unstable. It doesn't PIO, it balances out the gust thanks to its big dihedral, and it glides with just a slight turn into landing, and the motors trim up to fly straight and level with the TX pot. So without even moving the motors yet, or even repositioning them, it's a super-floater now.

Even with less wing, it's much more efficient. At even low throttle, putting in turn makes it climb. Any light little gust at all and it climbs for the stars. I had to keep it down to 20-25 feet because i was afraid breezies would throw it into the very tall trees all around my yard.

I'll post some video soon as I can find someone here at home who can do a decent job with the camcorder.

Really fun to fly. Though heavier with the wings and t pins, it still climbs very well and I can now control it even in light breezes...just gotta be quick on the sticks and be willing to shut off power for lots of little short glides to bring it back down closer to the deck.

Once I move the battery, move the motors, and perhaps thin out the wing extensions a bit (they're kind of thick, I used my teeth to crimp down the trailing edges) it should reall be a floater.

I love my AA! Its the best rc plane i've had so far(haven't had to many). I had 2 other planes, not this type, and they broke with in a week. I haven't had mine a day but i crashed it hard many times. Nothing on has broke and i mean its been through a rough day. Perfect fun, easy to learn(i'm a beginner). My dad and I had fun learning how to use it. he told me he had never flew one but when he flew it he was real good. Real good product worth the 30 dollars