BMatt:

i have no idea what you mean by "c" grain, sorry :P

also, would ou agree with kid epoxy that the front egde of the barn door would be enough of a surface? or maybe cutting the middle out and sticking the front and rear edges together? i will make that trim adjustment once i finish it.

pm is on the way.

kidepoxy:

thanks for that suggestion, might make matters alot easier.

its not that i am against nitro, i just have no experience in it. if someone could suggest a good way for me to go nitro with it, i guess i would be willing. will that surestart motor that was suggested for the DNU work?

also, a good place to get wood from? online possibly?

and i think i will go ask about the electric question in the electric areas.. maybe just link em here.

Hey sneeze. Just caught up with this thread. I made the connections and I do remember who you are. And you're right- the Hobby Town here is a waste of your time unless you already know exactly what you need and how much to pay for it Give me a call sometime and I would love to come by and check out the plane, and we'll take a ride over to the club in South Auburn, see if we can find it. I agree with the others here, this is not the plane I would recomend as your next step. The only way to make a guillows convert fly respectibly is with tiny gear and very straight building. Then they can be a hand full for even the quick of thumb. I understand being on a budget, believe me I do. But if you can spare it, a couple dollars on balsa and descent plans for a 1/2a trainer would be money well spent, and the gear you have would go right into it nicely. I have a bit of experience with electrics, but mostly with nitro power, and can give you any help you'll need. Tower Hobbies carries midwest products, and will ship you just about any size/shape balsa you need, with a pretty good price. The engine in your pics is definatly a cox of some knid, but I can't tell exactly which one.
Just for kick and giggles and so you can see just how exciting a 1/2a plane can get, check out the build thread I did a few months ago. I think it'll be right up your alley. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3373247/tm.htm

If you're going to build models from balsa it's good to learn what makes the material tick.....

http://www.mat.uc.pt/~pedro/ncientif...s/techbal.html
http://skyhooks.ca/balsa.htm
.... and in particular this page with pictures of the grain types http://skyhooks.ca/balsa3.htm#anchor446684

C grain has the advantage of being very stiff in bending and quite a bit stiffer than the other grades at resisting twisting so it's perfect for many uses where you want the wood to stay as flat as possible. A grain is what you would use for forming cross grain curves for rounded fore and aft decks on curved top fuselages.

And balsa also comes in a very wide range of densities. Until you get a feel for the weights it isn't a bad idea to buy a small gram scale and take it with you when you go balsa shopping along with the sheet weight chart. Buy only 4 to 8 lb/cu foot wood for your models unless you need some of the heavier stuff for specific uses.

From the balsa facts page from Sig: here is the link to some facinating info if you like that kind of stuff!: http://www.mat.uc.pt/~pedro/ncientif...s/techbal.html
A-GRAIN sheet balsa has long fibers that show up as long grain lines. It is very flexible across the sheet and bends around curves easily. Also warps easily. Sometimes called "tangent cut."

C-GRAIN sheet balsa has a beautiful mottled appearance. It is very stiff across the sheet and spits easily. But when used properly, it helps to build the lightest, strongest models. Most warp resistant type. Sometimes called "quarter grain."

B-GRAIN sheet balsa has some of the qualities of both type A and type C. Grain lines are shorter than type A, and it feels stiffer across the sheet. It is a general puropse sheet and can be used for many jobs. Sometimes called "random cut."

I have a sample of C grain on the left and A grain on the right for you to see

Robert

ill take you up on the call offer. dont know if i will have time this week, gotta start back to work and might go home this weekend, need to gather radio parts together for AUSSP.

honeslty, i think i did a damn good job buildign that guillows for a first time , but i also agree that it will not be a good frist plane. i have decided to build the DNU, i just need to find the time to order the wood.

i live out in the village if you know where that is (on campus houseing ). if you have some random time and have nothign to do give me a call (ill pm you my number) and if im here your more then welcome to come look at the barn doors :P



oh, as a general question, will CA debonder allow me to remove CA hinges?

totally missed the balsa post, thanks guys, that clears it up quite a bit. i knew there were distinct differences and many diff types of balsa, but wasnt sure what

i here competition balsa refered to alot, it this c grain by chance? or somethign totally different?

another interesting fact, i went and looked at my p-51.. it seems alot of that plane is c grain.

Not surprising coming from a Guillows kit. They are sort of famous ( infamous) for this.I think one reason is that its cheaper than a higher grade balsa and also when it comes to die-cutting ( crunching) I guess you can cut more sheets of parts on the same set of blades before one has to replace them. This would be a purely economic plus for someone trying to make a business profitable.
As for laser cutting this would not be an issue.

Many have come to a conclusion that most wood needs to be replaced when building one of these. A pain but you come out with a better performing flying model in the long run. If you just want to display it it would matter much less.

Robert

ya, i guess the c grain is just to heavy for most of this model. right?


im thinking of cutting the front of the fuse in half so that way i will have a little bit of a hatch cover and room to work with. or is this another idea i should stay away from?

One can almost consider a Guillows kit more of a Template Set to cut your good balsa parts to match... and you can cut kit after kit from the templet set withou buying new Guillows boxes

true. i think i may do that actually. i have already built the Fuse on my spit, so i am afraid that it might only be worth beign made into a display peice now. maybe i will go and by another p-51 and spit and just redo them.

those links to the balsa sites, should they give me an idea of which different balsas i shoudl use for formers, control surfaces, stringers, wing ribs, fuse panels, ect?

also, someone said i coudl order midwest balsa from tower? do they sell ply as well?

C grain is just like the rest of balsa, it comes in light as well as heavy densities. "Contest grade" does NOT refer to C grain. Contest grade is a term from the old free flight days where the guys wanted the lightest and finest wood. So contest grade means it's 4 to 6 lb/cuft density and generally of higher quality grain wise and has little built in warping in the sheet. C grain is merely cut "cross grain". Nothing more or less.

Yea. you can get the ply from Tower too. Just do a search on their website for whatever you're looking for.

What's the quality of the wood from Tower?

ah, ok, so i guess i can get contest grade in any grain? do i need to bother with "contest balsa" with the DNU? i wouldnt think i would need to, but never hurts to ask.

I've never actually ordered wood from Tower, I just know you can. Midwest products, however, are usually pretty good.

just get it from hobbytown and hope they have what you need?

another thing to consider is using a light source to backlight the thinner pieces of balsa. the more light passes through the less dense it is. Keep in mind that weighing it is more accurate but more than once I have found myself without my Portable Pocketable Digital Electronic Grams vs Ounces (batteries not included) Scale. In such cases one must muddle through best one can but keep in mind that seeing and touching is better than by mail most times.

Oh by the way, the aforementioned device I named is still on my to get list but I have my eyes on one. I don't know if you can buy one off Ebay without getting charged an exhorbitant price for shipping. Maybe you can but I gave up after hours of searching once. The prices are great till you you have to pay that ship/handling thing. Balsa products has a pretty nice one IMHO, Robert

sounds like a good idea. i have never seen one of those scales, but i will look on ebay, maybe i can find one.

your right, the shipping price on those scales on ebay is through the roof... geess.

i went to one of the local bookstored here today to pick up some reading material for class and i went back into the arts supply section and found there balsa selection ( for arch and building science majors mostly). I looked through it and found that not only did they have a pretty good selection of balsa and basswood, they also had cherry, oak, and a few other hardwoods in sheets of varing thickness. I dont know if this has any relavance to plane contsruction, in fact, it probably has little to do considering balsa is used because of its wonderful strength to weight ratio. but i guess it might be interesting if your not worried about weight to sheet a plane in 1/16 or 1/32 hardwood sheets. would give it an interesting look.


edit.. made some progress on the mustang.. i went in and cut the barn doors off. i tried to use ca debonder to get the hinges out.. didnt work at all, so i just cut em. will make the smaller ones soon and attach them.

hey guys, reviving this thread some...

i replaced the barn doors, looks alot better now.. i also started on the spitfire guillows in hte last few days as well. gonna take some tips form the other threads on conversions.

i did have a question tho. someone linked me to a website that had surestarts (?) and recommened them as a good engine for these kits, but i noticed they were not throtled. are there any engines that are made small enough for these kits that are throttled? if so, could yo umake a recommendation? this would probably be for the spit, not the p-51