johnpcunningham

Ever thought about putting a brushless motor in your Pakzone P-51, Spitfire, F190, or Hobbyzone Extreme or Challenger without changing out the electronics?
Wanted more flight time? Wish to run LiPOs instead of NiMh.

My contracting company developed the EZ-ESC.

EZ-ESC is an microprocessor based circuit board that allows the ParkZone and HobbyZone ARF models to use a brushless motor and ESC while using the original transmitter and receiver!!! You can still use the X-PORT while taking advantage of the more efficient and higher output of the brushless system. There is no need to buy an expensive aftermarket radio system.

If you are interested in purchasing one of these you can contact me at [email protected]. Cost is $25 which includes shipping. I can take PayPal or any other type of convienient payment.

Pictures and Installation instructions are included below

Best Regards,

John Cunningham
Austin Designwave

cbatters

Very cool!

In this description you mentioned using it with HZ/PZ electronics and connecting to a standard servo. In another post you mentioned that you could also use it to convert standard servo output to control XPORT accessories.

Are there two different models?

Edit - Nevermind.... found your other post - two models.

EZ-XPORT

EZ-ECS



Clint

Mr. Mugen

reminds me of the Brush2less system that does the same thing.

johnpcunningham

Mr. M,

I did not know the Brush2less existed but I think you are correct....they do seem very similar. I did a websearch and found a hobby store selling it for $37.99.
I've had all of my boards fabricated at a PCB house so the quality is very good.

I will be getting the EZ-XPORT PCBs back in mid May. I've uploaded the instructions for everyone to view, if it interests you. One is preliminary.
The EZ-XPORT is the one I think may be popular - using the Hobbyzone XPORT modules on any plane; We will see.

After converting over most of my planes from bushed to brushless, I will never go back. My buddy and I dogfight almost every weekend with the Sonic Combat modules on two Aerobird Challengers. We've modified these planes to the max and fly them to the edge everytime. It adds such an element of fun (aerial combat) ( to this great sport that simply flying planes alone almost seems boring. Now that we are advancing to more aggressive and faster planes, I did not want to lose the XPORT dogfighting capabilities on other planes that do not have XPORT or when I use my DX6 radio. The EX-XPORT fixed that. Enjoy flying.

Till then,

JC

Darkseacret

can the hz/pz 3 channel package be trustued with a higher power brushless system

johnpcunningham

The electronics on the HZ/PZ pull very little current and has a voltage regulator on board for voltage control. The switching FET that is on the board is what pulls the most current. Now that the brushless ESC is pulling 99% of the current, there is very little current draw on the HZ/PZ circuit board. Since the brushless ESC connects directly to the battery, the large current path does not go through the circuit board. I've run 11.1 volt LiPOs in the challenger and 10.8 NiMH batteries in the Challenger all of the time and have yet to have a problem.

On most electronic systems, it is the power across the voltage regulator that is most critical. If it is a linear regulator, 10 volts in and 4.4 volts out pulling 1 amp means (10 – 4.4) * 1 = 5.6 Watts. Usually 5.6W/.7 ~ 8 watts due to losses in the silicon. The current in the HZ/PZ electronics portion is probably around 30ma (Narrobwand FM = 4ma, MCU ~ 10ma, the rest are losses across the resistors, caps, clocks, and inductors).

To be honest, the current going to the RX is about the same; brushed or brushless. Power across the regulator is more like (10-4.4) * 0.30]/.7 ~ 0.25 watts. Therefore, the current going through the power supply is very low.

The brushed motor is connected directly to the battery voltage and is not regulated - this is where the problem lies. The smaller brushed motors can't handle the higher battery voltages. Generally, the electronics portion of the RX will be just fine with most batteries out there. I would probably limit it to 11.1V LiPOs as a maximum voltage.

JC

Mr. Mugen

Interesting. Nice to see someone using their head. Great sounding product. Keep us posted on what happens after 75+ packs. Thanks

Swift427

In your thread on Challenger Re-Engineering Mods you write ~ "3. I once tried running the 9.6V battery on the stock 380 motor and burnt it up in 5 minutes. NOW, with the F27Bs 480 motor and the new FET, I can run the 7.2, 8.4, 9.6, or 10.4 volt NiMh battery in the challenger. Even 11.1V LiPOs. No matter what battery you use, the performance is dramatically increased over the stock setup. It really performs when you use the 9.6V NiMh battery!!!!. On a non windy day I can almost do a straight up vertical climb for about 5 or 6 seconds."

Is there a way to upgrade/adapt/modify the existing ESC/RX in the Swift (new ZX10 Aerobird 3 uses almost identical ESC/RX as the Swift) so that a fully charged 11.1V LiPo won't overheat the brushed 480 motor (same exact motor in both F27B and Swift). Did you eventually burnout the brushed 480 motor when using a 11.1V LiPo in your Challenger?

As you mention the ZX10 ESC/RX looks to be designed for 6 channel capability with all those 3 pin connections. Being that you suggest that the first 3 pin connection is for throttle why couldn't you just plug the 3 pin throttle connector from a brushless ESC into the first 3 pin port on the ZX10 ESC/RX ? Do you really need to use a EZ ESC with a ZX10 ESC/RX ?

Using the Astro Super Whattmeter a fully charged 3S LiPo powering the brushed 480 motor will draw as much as 16 amps at full throttle during the first few seconds or almost 200 watts (12 volts x 16 amps = 192 watts). The motor would quickly burn out if this rate were continued, but it surely makes for a great ROG with the Swift~a beautiful sight to behold. What is your opinion as to the ZX10 ESC/RX being able to handle a 10 second 16 amp burst for doing ROGs or 12-14 amps for some aerobatics. Even if it was possible to put another FET on the ZX10 ESC/RX would you eventually burnout the brushed 480 motor using a 3S Lipo even with a more conservative flying pattern?

It is my understanding that under ideal conditions (first breaking in motor for peak efficency) that the 480 motor used in the F27B and Swift is capable of handling 12V and draws 14 amps or 171 watts with a 6x4 prop. ParkZone sells a 5x3 prop when using a 3S 11.1V LiPo on the brushed F27B instead of the normal 5.9x3

Swift427

Mr. Cunningham,

The new Aerobird 3 (formerly Challenger) and the Swift don't need the EZ-ESC as they both use the same ZX10 ESC/RX electronics that come standard in the plane. I plugged the 3 pin throttle connector from my son's brushless 25 amp EFlite Stryker C ESC into the first 3 pin connector port on my Swift ESC/RX and it works fine with the Stryker C brushless motor. The two closer motor mount holes on this brushless motor and its diameter make it a perfect fit replacement for changing from the brushed motor in the new Aerobird 3 and the Swift to brushless; while still using the ZX10 RX that comes with the plane.

johnpcunningham

Hey Swifty,

That is correct - the new ZX-10 RX on the latest HZ & PZ birds allow you to connect directly to a brushless ESC. So, the mustang, original challenger, extreme, F27B, or any other plane that does not have the ZX-10 transmitter and receiver will require the EZ-ESC for brushless conversion.

As to your other question, I'm still running one challenger with the 480 motor and another with a brushless. So far, no problems with either. The brushed motor typically runs the 8.4 and 9.6 NiMH battery.

JC

Swift427

Hi John,

On the Swift thread you mentioned that part of the frustration when you converted the Swift to brushless was intermittment servo problems on both your Swifts when plugging the 3-pin connector from the brushless ESC into the 3-pin throttle port on the ZX10 ESC/RX. I believe you said this idiosyncractic glitch disappeared when you soldered in your EZ-ESC to the ZX10 ESC/RX. As an engineer I know you've given this much thought. Also, I made a copy of the EZ-ESC to study and excuse my ignorance, but I don't know what you mean by the ECS as opposed to the ESC (electronic speed control).

Have you come to any conclusions whether the ZX10 ESC/RX circuitry isn't user friendly to this shortcut approach of plugging the Eflite 25 amp ESC 3-pin connector into the ZX10 ESC/RX throttle port that also allows power to the aileron servos and elevator servo on the Swift???

Also, do you think part of the problem with the Swift is that it is too light in the stern (V-tail and boom)??? Do you think a small lead wheel in place of the standard rear wheel might help stablize the plane???

Swift427

OK, my head cold has me under the radar--and blind as a bat. I figured its a couple of typos on page 3. Number 3) at the top of the page and 11) at the bottom of the page.

Would it help to splice in another small black ground wire onto the one that runs into the 3-pin connector on the brushless ESC and solder the other end onto the ZX10s ESC/RX where the black motor wire was previously soldered. If you don't mind me asking--What exactly is the function of the EZ-ESC if it indeed eliminates the erratic servo behavior of the Swift's ESC/RX that you still experienced after your ZX10 brushless conversion???

johnpcunningham

Hey swifty,

The new ZX10 system is a hybrid. It "can" support the throttle output for most brushless ESC and at the same time drive a brushed motor - which is what come with the Swift. The brushed motor is a simple FET switcher that toggles the power to the motor. The 3-wire output from the RX MCU is a standard output that sends a 1 to 2ms pulse every 20ms. 1ms = idle, 2ms - full throttle. The brushless ESC must see this signal or it will cut out thinking a loss of signal. I think this is what happens when the problem occurs. My EZ-ESC is always working to prevent this and takes its input from the black brushed motor wire.

I have totally retired my two Swifts from active duty. Extra wings and parts went into the trash - even the new ones! The Swift's wingspan is to wide in my opinion and the V-tail makes it unstable. V-tails are general unstable in wind compared to a rudder/elevator combination. Given that, if you don't get the ailerons and the Swift Vtail set up just right, it is easy to Yaw one way or another. Remember, the challenger turns with just the V-tail. Overall I think the Swift is a piece of s..t. I gave it much attention and overhauls and it cause me nothing but frustration.

I've got most of the Parkzone fighters (P-51, Spitfire, etc), the F27 Stryker, and two Aetrobird Challengers. Most of the time I fly the challengers with my buddy and we dogfight for hours using the Sonic combat modules. We fly these planes to the extreme with 480 brushed and brushless motors, reinforced wings.
I did take out the brushless setup and put it in the challenger - I drilled out the original prop's center to 1/8 and put it on the E-flight brushless. Now this bird can hum and the dogfights are a blast. I can't do rolls on the Challenger but I can do vertical climbs & loops easily and dogfight like a monstor. Always stable, no crashes and no problems. If I want aerobatics, I go to the warbirds.

I would suggest getting a challenger (now called Aerobird 3 with the ZX10 system) and fly that one instead. So much more fun and reliable.

JC

nystagehane

Hi John,

Maybe you could help me with a question. I really like my challenger its my first plane. It is amazing how much you can keep fixing that plane after crashes.

But I was doing some loops for my daughter and lost control and smashed into homeplate at about Fifty mile hour (SAFE).

Anyway the tail boom broke, and the fuselage is pretty soft from all the heat gun repairs. So I thought I would buy a new aerobird3 fuselage and a swift radio from someone I know, and with my reinforced wing I'll be flying again with out the fishing line which is the only thing I didn't like about the plane.

My question is I want more Power and flight time, I'll settle for just more power. I was going to buy the 480 stryker engine and put it in the aerobird3, but I think you said it can handle the brushless stryker engine and lipo's just by connecting either engine the right way, I'm sorry if I did not totally understand you last posts, but I really want to get my aerobird3 set up right.

Which engine is safe to put in? Or what would you reccommend..
Best regards

Jeff

nystagehane

Hi John,

I really just want to put a brushless motor in my aerobird3 fuselage, because I just bought two 8.4V 1100mAh Hi-Power NiMH Battery Pack from batteyspace.com, I think you said I should get longer flight time and even performance with the brushless motor. Could you reccomend one you like.

I bet you and your friend most have some pretty cool dog fights with your challengers, someone should post some video of dogfights that would be cool.

Thanks in advance for you help...

johnpcunningham

NY,

I've got a bunch of planes but the Challneger is my staple. I put in an E-flight SIX series motor and run all of the batteries. You can by the cheaper 7.2 NiMH and get great performance. It is night and day from the stock setup.
Get the EZ-ESC, solder your black motor wire to it. Buy the ESC and your brushless motor. Solder the ESC power connections to the battery connection. Plug the 2-wire connection from the ESC to the EZ-ESC and that is it.
You can use other props but all I did was drill out the center of the original prop with a 1/8" dripp. Use loctite or some epoxy to make sure it stays on

I have found that the best performance and longest flight times comes from running 7.4 LiPOs. I bought two and put them both in the nose to keep the flight balance close to normal. One acts a s a weight and the other
is connected to the battery. When I run out of juice, I simply connect in the other battery. Do that, or run the 7.4 or 8.4MiHH.

My buddy and I are both electrical engineers and we have been modifying these planes alot. The Parkzone planes are good but one slight crash and the foam breaks apart everytime or the prop and nose busts up.
The challengers can outrun the Parzone warbirds easily with the brushless setup. Often we dogfight the P-51 or Spitfire with the Challenger and the challenger seems to come out on top with the sonic modules.

When picking your brushless, make sure it can do a direct drive - like the Stryker C setup.

--------------------
You can fix your orignal plane. Take a fiberglass rod and use it as a shunt where you broke the boom. Use epoxy to glue it on (all my planes have this prior to flying). Buy two small rods at your local hobbyshop for about $1.
Use this instead of the fishing lines. Go to this link for more info:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_55...tm.htm#5582722


JC

nystagehane

JC, Thanks for the great info.. So you do not think I should buy the aerobird3 fuselage over fixing my challenger. The only problem is my challenger fuselage took a beating in the learning process, it's split in a few places on the bottom, and has been contorted so much the prop angle is a little off.

I do not mind spending the money on two EZ-ESC one for me and one for my brother, he wants to get started in electric flight, (he's a dentist). It sounds like it's going to give me the most options. (Nice job on coming up with something like that).


So if I by a new Challenger fuselage with the electronic's, your EZ-esc, E-Flight Six Series Motor(direct drive) and an E-Flight 40-amp brushless ESC i should be set. I'll keep you appraised of how the install goes when I get all the parts.

My brother can buy a Challenger off ebay or hobbyzone.

I thought the aerobird3 would be better because then we would not have to do the push pin mods and other mods.

Anyway it seems like it going to be a fun project and a real lot of fun when we can dogfight. I have an e-mail from you I got a month or so on the EZ-ESC. I put my order in.

Did I list all the parts I will need or did I forget something? what kind of 7.4 lip's do you have, I guess I'll need a lip charger too.

Thanks again.
Happy flying

johnpcunningham

NY,

The Aerobird 3 has a design flaw in my opinion!!!

They did not BEEF up the area where the control rods come out of the boom. They cut the hole bigger but without a shunt for support, it will crack and break. My local hobby shop has said that many of them have been brought back and all have broken in the same place.
I did my modifications to the challenger before my first flight (the engineering in me). I have flown a VERY patched up challenger with all kinds of patches. Great Stuff foam (Home Depot or Lowes) does wonders for binding up the nose from the inside.
If you can fix up your challanger, then go for it. I keep two in my hanger - one with the brushless and one with an upgraded 480 motor as a backup.

1) Put the fuse over a stove (gas) and heat and bend back into shape
2) Use plastic hinges (local hobby shop) with screws to support the nose where it splits
3) Use a plastic hinges on the canopy (see attached photo)
4) Cut a piece of fiberclass rod about 2 inches long. Then cut a slit in it lengthwise and glue it where the control rods come out of the boom. Do this if you buy the Aerobird 3, or do the same thing to fis your original Challenger.
5) Run a brushless, ESC, and my EZ-ESC and go full core power on the challenger

You will crash again ( I always do dogfighting) and you might as well get the most out ouf your plane before retiring to the trash. The challenger can take a good beating and with just a little work, it can fly again and again. You can even make your own circuit board if you use your ownradio. Use the EZ-XPORT if you run the sonic modules or the aerial drop.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5991850/tm.htm

See my pics below for my challenger brushless setup, canopy fixes, and tailboom modifications.

JC

nystagehane

John, Great pic's, I am going to fix my challenger, I orderd the boom repair part and the 480 motor. I think I am going to buy the Typhoon2 3D when it comes out. I want a plane that I can do aerobatics with since I do not have one. But my challenger will fly again and I think my brother will start out with AB3.

also I will wait until I have more plane's and parts before I go brushless on the challenger. But I think with the 480 mod I should see better performance. I want to see what a plane with aileron can do.

Looking forward to reading more of your post's in the future.

Happy flying

Jeff

johnpcunningham

Jeff

Don't use the tailboom repair kit tha hobbyzone sells. It is too thin and too large in diamater. Not sure if you noticed, but the tailboom is actually tapered; thick at the fuse and thin at the tail. Purchase a carbon fiber rod from your local hobbyshop with outer dimensions appx 7.6mm (0.3 in) . Go ahead and by the control rods with the thumbscrew holders as well - only $99 at my local hobbystore. and they are made by hobbyzone as well. If you broke the boom near the tail, I would cut about a 3 inch piece to create the splint. Then make a cut lengthwise so that the splint looks like a tall letter "C". You may have to make one or two passes with a dremmel tool to take enough material away. It should "snap" on when you put it on the boom. Then use 5min epoxy to repair. Make sure the slit is large enough and run the control rods through the tailboom. When you get them into the fuse, you need to make a bend on them so that they go into the servo control arms. they fit fine so no cutting or drilling needed.

The 480 motor will give you a slight jump in power. The brushless will simply blow you away.

If you are gong ailerons at some point, don't go with the SWIFT. One idea would be to buy the "replacement" P-51 for less price and use your challenger radio for both (same channel of course). The FW190 and the Spitfire use the ZX-10 and do not move the servos the same.

I did my EZ-ESC on those planes as well and it makes a difference in performance. More difficult mods because there is a lip in the motor mount and you have to grind it away to get the brushless 400 motor to fit. The brushless motor fits fine in the Challenger with no modifications.

Best of luck,

JC

nystagehane

JC

I was just leaving for the hobbystore now, I'm glad I checked this thread before I left, I hope they have the Carbon fiber rod and control rod's. I wrote down the dimentions.

I'll post how the repair went. Thanks again..

Happy Flying


Jeff

nystagehane

John,

The hobby store had everything. I did the push rod mod, that is the best Mod so far. The plane is ready to fly again. I am having another problem and you being a electrial engineer maybe can help.

The throttle is acting funny it is cutting out and going back on again. I don't know if it is the receiver or a battey connection, or the board is going. The power is just fluctuating.


Jeff

johnpcunningham

Jeff,

1) Check that the FETs solder connections are good on the board. This is the 3 pin part that has a small metal heatsink on it. The FETs pins protrude out the bottom near the wire connections where the power wires solder on. The black wire going to the motor should be solderded on the same trace going to the FET - should help you located it. Just heat up each pin with a solder iron & possibly add some solder. Use a multimeter and check continuity going tothe black wire.
2) Make sure your connections to the motor are good. May need to resolder at the motor and at the board or both
3) If the motor is cutting out, see if you can move the servos when it is doing that. If you can then it is probably not the battery connection. Make sure your battery's pins are pushed up in the white socket prior to connectiong to the challenger.

More than likely there is a connection bad somewhere. From my experiences with this plane your board is probably in working order, just need to find that loose connection.

Let me know what you end up finding.

JC

nystagehane

John, I went to fly the plane, for what ever reason it crashed after like ten feet, my splint did'nt hold, and the boom broke I can not find anyone that sells the carbon fiber rod I need.

I made the splint with a plastic tube and glued it with plastic welder. When it crashed the plastic tube broke.

But after the crash the motor was working properly. I held it in my hand and ran it full throttle and it was working fine.

I guess I will have to buy a new fuselage or order a carbon fiber rod online.

Anyway that pushrod setup was great, I was looking forward to seeing it work in the air, but the throttle problem caused my to crash.

Take care

Jeff

johnpcunningham

OK,

Here is the cheap fix that will work great. The plastiweld that you used does not work very well. You have to use 5 min epoxy. You can try it again with expoxy or do this below:

1) Pull the rod out of the fuse. Takes a little tugging but you will get it. Don't worry about the antenna wire, that comes later
2) The original rod is tapered. What you are going to do is cut the original in two places. First cut is about 2 inches in front of the tail where the tail mount is. The second cut is about 6 inches in at the other end.
3) The carbon rod I mentioned will work perfect as a replacement. The tail will fit IN the replacement rod.
4) The repalcement rod will fit IN the other end that you cut. Should look something like this:


FUSE
-------------------- original rod (cut)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------- TAIL end

Replacement carbon rod --------------------antenna wire

-------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------

5) You may need to keep cutting on each end until it fits and slides in properly
6) Cut a new slit for the control rods to come out on the top. Beef it up as you did the original with a splint using 3" splint and 5 min epoxy
7) Once everything looks to fit and slide in properly, use 5 minute epoxy (not pastiweld) to glue everything in
8) Unsolder the antenna from the RX. Run it through the end by the tail and push it up through back to the fuse. Resolder back to the board
9) Put the repaired boom back into the fuse. Use a small metal hose clamp and wrap it around the plastic part of the fuse where the boom comes out of the fuse. Tighten and cut off any excess

This may seem like a lot of work but it really isn't. Should not take you more that 30 minutes. Just make sure to use 5min epoxy. When you cut the original boom, make sure to measure it first to get and idea of how long you make the replacement rod. A dremmel with a cutting wheel is now your best friend. Buy multiple sizes of carbon rods at the hobby shop to use as the replacement and for making the splint.

I'm flying a plane like this and works great.

Hope this helps,

JC