joizeex

edit: updated with pics in Tokyo hobby store

Hey guys, as the title says, my girl got me Evo 50 kit and a OS hyper 50 engine for my bday back in April. Took me 4 evenings to put it together. So now i need an exhaust pipe and electronics.

However, before i had the chance to purchase some, i had to leave for Japan for work for 2 weeks. I pretty much decided what radio to get, however it doesn't come with the best servos and there's another small thing. I'm going to get the FS8 co-pilot with z-sensor option. It comes with its own receiver, so getting a radio that includes a Rx is kinda pointless, so i was looking for one that comes without. There is no option like that for the radio that i want: JR 7ch PCM that comes with DS821 servos. There's no option to get just the Tx for it and then get my own servos (9252). There's a Futaba 7ch Tx only at www.rchover.com, but i think it's not PCM ($180)

There are 9ch Tx available, but i'm not interested in 9ch, because i'm not going to use those chans. I don't care about lights or gears or any other trinkets. With a 7ch i can use one chan for gyro gain and one for co-pilot gain or co-pilot switch on/off. I might end up getting a used JR 7ch PCM. Do you guys think it'll work just fine?

Also, i've been playing G3 sim on the flight to Japan and on some nights before going to bed, on my laptop. Saw a 5-6 yr old Japanese kid today in a hobby store kicking ass on a nitro heli in G3! He was pretty damn good.

Other things to install:
GY401/9254 combo - Got one today in Tokyo for....$144 for the combo! Compared to $210 online. Amazing price, brand new.
Exhaust - Got one at the same hobby store for $53 for the Hatori pipe, the non 3D one. Again, great price.
They only sell mode1 radios, so i couldn't even look at those.
FS8 co-pilot with Z sensor - this is a controvercial subject, but i rather stay in the air longer than sit and wait on parts since no LHS has hirobo parts. Plus i'm going to let my girl fly it around a bit since she's so awesome. I'm mainly going to be learning with co-pilot off and turn it on when i feel that i'm done for. Kinda like having a guardian angel. If anyone has any suggestions about the FS8, please chime in!

Hobby stores here are sweet. Lots of parts and kits for Kyosho cars, planes and heli, not like the small or non-existing support here in NJ. They sell buncha Hirobo parts/upgrades and kits as well. Saw lots of drifting car kits too. Everything is layed out nicely and easy to find, and the stores look very bright and clean and nice to walk into, which i can't say about all American shops. I took pics at some of the places and will post tomorrow.

here are the pics of my heli so far (don't have pics after putting stickers on):

if anyone has any additional advice, please shoot away, thanks for looking

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Dont get me started on the co-pilot


The Futaba 7 channel radios do pcm and ppm. The designation 7CHP or 7CHF only mean something when you buy a system, and that means they ship with a pcm and ppm reciever, also the programming defaults but you can set pcm or ppm on a per model basis. Also if you use a Futaba transmitter in PCM mode you need a Futaba reciever.

joizeex

haha i know i know. it's a crutch, but i have a pet peeve against breaking stuff that could've been avoided. i'm also interested in doing aerial photo at some point and i was jokingly talking to my friend about using it for recon during paintball games [X(]

So http://www.rchover.com/inc/sdetail/60089 is good then? i'll get 3x9252 and be done with it.

For the FS8 i have to use PPM. I read about PPM vs PCM, but without actually trying out both for a while, i don't know how good PPM is in the field. Any thoughts?

Also, i was thinking of using wooden blades to practice hover and take-off/landing. Since i'll keep the rpms low, is that ok? Don't feel like splitting my CF blades because i didn't flick the co-pilot switch fast enough.

Lastly, any recommendations for brand/type of Rx battery?
thanks

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

LOL thats funny, "All the programming features of a 9c with two less channels!" Whatever. But yes thats all you need.

Most people fly helis with PCM for two reasons. First is noise rejection. There's alot of moving parts in a heli that can generate RF noise, a dry bearing for example will drive you crazy with glitches trying to locate. Electric helicopters with rf noisy esc's are even worse. That being said, people can and do fly ppm on helis and its better to find and fix a glitch rather than mask it with pcm.

The second reason is fail safe. PCM allows you to hold the last commanded position of the servos for a short time and if the interference continues, to drive any selected servos to a preset position. Usually this hold for the cyclic and tail, zero pitch for the collective and most important, idle for the throttle. This prevents fly aways and takes away deadly energy in a crash.

Low head rpm sounds like a good concept but in reality it just makes the helicopter unstable and wobble. Wood blades are fine for training and AP (aerial photography) is the one legitemate use for a copilot in a heli

We had a fellow show up yesterday with a very similar setup, new EVO, never flew choppers but had some airplane experiance, spent alot of time reading and playing on a sim.

First flight he ditched the training sticks and was hovering smoothly by the end of the second tank. The key is getting it setup properly.

joizeex

lol i dunno. I either do my own research or ask knowledgeable folks, so i rarely fall for ad gimmicks (ex. i know that co-pilot is not an end-all way for a noob to fly). But like you said, that radio is all i need. That's the site my gf got me the Evo and hyper 50 from. They pricematch, apparently, too.

The FS8 comes with failsafe setup (also allowing setup through PC interface), but i'm still reading up on it; it sounds like its failsafe works like what you described for PCM.

I'll prolly use wood for the initial few tanks just in case something is wrong with setup and it strikes the ground with the blades, but i'm going to have local gurus look at everything before i lift off anyway.

That sounds good; the Evo is surely a lot more stable than my HBK which i kept having trouble holding during lift off due to ground wash. How's the effect of ground wash on 50 class? I'm getting training sticks nevertheless. I can't wait to fly back home and start messing with radio. Will prolly take me another week. []

thinking of getting a Nicd 2000+ mAh Rx batt. Do i need more, since i'm using 9252's?

joizeex

here are some hobby store pics from Japan with some notes:
that Evo owner in front of the store was a jerk. i tried talking to him about Evos when he crossed the street and the turd just brushed me off after my first sentence.[sm=thumbs_down.gif]
the whole rack with Hirobo parts, about 25% less than what it costs here (no surprise though, local brand)
they have lots of drifting kits there, usually a few in every hobby store.
note those XMODS in one of the pics lol
my happy ass in front of the store after getting the gy401/9254 combo for $65 less than anything i've seen online
track for mini Z's at one of the floors at a different hobby shop

i will post the rest of my Japan pics that i've taken so far (mostly Tokyo and a naval base) on the Evo forum and will cross link the 2 threads.

joizeex

BTW this build was relatively easy IMO. It's my first time building an RC of this complexity, but it went very smoothly, just time consuming. The instructions contain clear schematics and diagrams and i work best with visuals, so i didn't feel like any part was complicated. So if anyone was wondering about building a Hirobo kit, i think you'll do just fine.
Setting things up with the radio and servos will take some time though, as i'm going to try to get it perfect or close to it.

I was going to order some things tonight so that i can have them when i return this weekend, but my workday ended up being some 12 hrs. Bleh [&o]

WhtBronco

That's the only helis fly well so spend the time to get it as close to perfect as you can.

joizeex

i hear ya, i don't wanna chop anyone's head off with this thing!

so any recommendations on the Rx battery? i saw a 2400mah NiCd somewhere online for like $50. how's that sound for digi servos like 9252?

i'm going to order most of the electronics tonight, and i'm leaving Japan tomorrow, so i can start putting it all together in the next few days.

WhtBronco

Somewhere around 2000mah or more is good. Check out [link=http://www.hangtimes.com/]NoBS Batteries[/link] to get a battery pack. Steve makes great packs at really good prices. My 1950mah NiMH pack was only $2 more than an 800mah NiCD at the LHS and is far superior in assembly and materials.

if you have the money you might even consider a li-ion battery and regulator so you can fly all weekend on a single charge.

Also read that site, you may find a lot of info on batteries that you didn't know. I sure did, like formation charging. I'd never heard of that despite 16 years in R/C modeling.

chazdraves

I guess I would keep my fingers crossed for Rafael or Barracuda coming by with their two cents, but I would say you can expect at least 3 tanks out of a 2400 on that setup.

Good Luck!
- Chaz

EDIT: Oh, bugger! Someone more knowledgeable on the subject got in before I did!

joizeex

thanks for the replies guys. i'll check out the batt site.

i JUST got back from Japan (and already checking Evo and RC forums lol). didn't get a chance to order anything, as i had too much fun dining out, drinking and singing karaoke on my last night there. lost my voice singing Metallica, Guns n Roses and Nirvana songs with the Japanese navy guys

meanwhile, i had my gf call into a couple of online places to see if they had Tx and servos in stock, as it seems they're out of them. on one of the sites, the rep told her that apparently the S9451 servo is sort of a replacement for 9252, as the latter burns out at higher voltage (assuming 6v). however, the 9451 has metal gears (eventual slop) and i don't plan on running the 9252 at 6v.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

YUP. With one exception. Keep an eye on your switches. Lately I've been having trouble with a 2400 batt pack only allowing me one or two flights. After that the loaded voltmeter showed slightly less than 4.8 volts. NO FLY ZONE. After cycling the batteries and making sure that battery was not the problem, I found out that my switch was robbing me of about 1/2 volt. That is a lot of resistance. I only have a hobby voltmeter, I'll get a testing multimeter to try to find out what the problem was. Otherwise, the switch goes in the trash. (most likely endstate).

I have the exact same battery in another (bigger) helicopter and I can safely fly 3-4 tanks on a 2400 NiCd pack from NoBS batteries.

Rafael

joizeex

how does the one at the bottom of this page sound? http://www.hangtimes.com/sportrxpacks.html
2700mAh. it's not too heavy right?
or this http://www.heliproz.com/prodinfo.asp?number=157960 - 3000mAh, also made using sanyo cells
or http://www.heliproz.com/prodinfo.asp?number=157966 - 4500mAh sanyo? should i just get this one and be done with it?
i also have to keep in mind that i would need one with universal connector, as that's what FS8 copilot has.

chazdraves

^--- Bigger battery, more weight. I know it's not a lot, but it's worth thinking about.

- Chaz

joizeex

what would be the "cutoff" weight for the battery for 50 class? in other words, at what capacity does the weight become harmful to heli of this size?

Patto

I buy all my batteries from an ebay store called Battery Island. You can buy a 3-pack, (yes, 3 battery packs!) of 2500mah NiMh with universal connectors installed for about $25. They ship the next day and I have usually had the battery packs in my hands within about 3-4 days. I have not had one fail on me yet, except the one that friend due to a short in a servo extention. Before I realized where the short was, I sent them an email, and they immediately sent me a new one. I later found out where the problem was, told them, and they told me to just keep the pack and come back when I needed more. Their batteries are of great quality as far as I can tell...

MOST IMPORTANTLY: No one has even commented yet on how awesome your girlfriend is!! THAT IS A GREAT GIRL!! I'm lucky because I think my wife would do the exact same thing if I didn't always say, "Hey, want me to buy my own birthday gift? I know just what I want..."

chazdraves

I would probably stop at a 2400. That seems a fair balance of capacity and size. For the record, however, the gassers/nitros I've flown almost always have used 1400's. Ironically, the only time I've flown with a 2400 was the time I was nearly killed (posted on this forum), but I don't relate that to the battery's capacity

- Chaz

joizeex

Found them. 4 packs for $28+shipping sounds good. Thanks for the tip.

I know, tell me about it! She was going to get me a monster truck at first, but i'm glad she didn't, since i don't really want one at this time. Then my friend was trying to push his idea to her, that i would love to get xsux 360 and xsux live subscription. She said it sounded more like he just wanted another buddy to play online haha. It's a good thing she didn't follow his advice, as i don't want any more consoles (still play trusty ps2) and i don't wanna spend even more time indoors! Then she saw my friend's 30 class heli and decided to get me even bigger one. Well, so far i think this heli is way more awesome and involved than just another overpriced game console. Maybe that's just the engineer in me

looking at starters now, HeliMax Helicopter Super Starter (6th one down) looks like what i want:
http://helihobby.com/html/glow_starters.html

suzz

This is joizeex gf here...

Thanks for the compliment P-Diddy!

I can't wait to see his very first CRASH LANDING. It's gonna be awesome

Patto

Doh! You jinxed him! I guess a crash is inevitible, really.

In any case, you sound like a keeper. =) Keep buying him helicopters, it's good for his health.

I'm in the process of re-building my Raptor and upgrading from a .30 to a .50. I'm gonna cry if I crash it the first day!

joizeex

see what i have to put up with! [sm=tongue_smile.gif]

well, today i ordered the rest of the crap that's needed, all $750 of it...[sm=sad_smile.gif]
bought some high temp liquid gasket from pep boys and mounted the pipe (no paper gasket).

Tx will get here Weds-Thurs, co-pilot/receiver about the same; servos and starting/training accessories - next week.

I'll setup Tx while i wait for the rest. That should take a couple of nights to do. I'm thinking of having the throttle curve go up to only 50% to get used to the engine initially.

still recovering from jet lag. 14 hr time shift is no joke.

chazdraves

I'm no expert on nitro/gas, but I doubt 50% will even get you off the ground, plus you'll be bogging down the engine with all the pitch required for any real lift. I would say you'll still want to use a recommended Normal-Mode curve for that heli, but just be gentle while you're learning. If you take it slow, you'll always do just fine.

Just my $.02
- Chaz

joizeex

well, i'm going by what another heli newcomer did with his raptor 50 a couple months ago in another build thread. He said that Baracuda set his throttle curve to max out at 80% and that was too much, so he turned it down to 42%
I think it should get off the ground at around 20% maybe? Assuming the engine is partially broken in and not running too rich at this point. I'll have to see how it runs.

02nelsc

my heli is a venture and we all know how heavy they are and my .37 can pull it through most things i and my trainer can throw at it at 57% throttle so i think for a 50 it could work but just renember lower headspeed can also be a bad thing get a tachomeater and just set it right the first time much easyier