CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

I've been wanting to build a Proctor museum kit for some time now and finally decided the first will be my Nieuport 11. Being a 1/5 scale model of a small WWI French scout it will be easy to transport, won't take up too much building room and I already have a nice .60 engine for it. As the photo's show, the kit comes with a huge amount of hardware and premium components. Most of the parts are already cut, drilled, soldered, etc. So this project should be a snap...well, we'll see.

CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

I've decided to construct the wings and tail surfaces first so they can be stored while the fuselage goes together. The first item to tackle is fabricating the ribs. The rib webs are die-cut 1/64 ply that I stained with lacquer-based oak. The cap-strips are just strip balsa I left bare for contrast. I deviated from the instructions by creating a sliding clamp out of lite-ply so that I can hold the rib together firmly while I glue it together with CA. The Proctor method is to pin everything down flat on a board and glue with Ducco. With 90 ribs to cap like this I just don't have patience for that.

CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

Here is a pic of my clamping jig arrangement. First I lay the web on a piece of thick cardboard the same shape which is glued to the board. Then I clamp the cap-strips around it and lift the whole assembly from the board. Glue it together and presto, insta-rib. After the first couple glued themselves to the clamp I rubbed candle wax on the surfaces and it cured the sticking problem. Only 89 ribs to go!

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Watching your build. I bought one of these kits a year ago. It was an older kit by Lou Proctor himself. Should be interesting to watch you.

CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

Bob,
I enjoyed your Camel thread so much that I'm glad to offer something in return. Proctor must have sold a lot of Nieuport 11's. Funny you don't see many built though. I hope this thread can help change that. With a 63" wingspan it's quite manageable.

One of the things I'm working on right now is substituting balsa strip laminations for the bamboo wingtips. The bamboo has a habit of returning to it's original shape and distorting outlines on finished models. Bob, I heard the earliest Proctor Nieuports featured the lamination method. If your kit does I'd sure like to know how Lou Proctor did it. My current plan is a strip of 1/64 ply and 3 strips of 1/16 balsa. With the strips cut 3/16 wide I should end up with a D shaped cross-section roughly 3/16 x 3/16.

summerwind

i built the nieuport 28 15 years ago..............totally relate to building of the ribs. i sold it to a man from japan, and it only cost what he paid me for it again to ship it.....something like 900 bucks.
after seeing your thread here, i think i just found my next project as a long time buddy is scorning me severly for coming back to the hobby and flying ARF's.........he wants so badly for me to build something that this is just the perfect project.......................

CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Summerwind,
Please feel free to join in with your build. Maybe we can talk BobH into starting his too! The Nieuport 28 is a bit more complex so the N11 should be a snap after that experience. The N11's cabanes, landing gear, spun cowl are all top shelf just like the N28. It looks as though it all simply bolts together.

Mike

CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

Here are some pictures off the [link]http://www.proctor-enterprises.com[/link] website:

summerwind

up to now i was looking for a scale project for my OS 1.60 twin..............gave the cub a thought, decided against it. gave the Nieuport 28c another thought as i felt i cheated myself by not covering and flying the one i had, but it would be a royal pain to try and build one right now as to the little time i have for building and the room it takes................but for some reason, i never even realized that the 11 was one if not the first kit the Lou came out with and what better project than this to satisfy my desire to build.
i love complicated projects, and while the 28 was a time consuming build, there was nothing more gratifying than standing back and just looking at the plane in it's uncovered state.

the 11 with be every bit as challenging for me and will fit into my building time and space to the tee.......................thx so much for posting this today.

summerwind

oh and BTW, i'm not going to use the 1.60 in the 11, i'll probably use an OS 61SF i have or an OS91fs with a big prop.

summerwind

Mike,

could i ask you to give me the measurement from firewall to face of cowl?

jtisch

I like to use the bamboo(or reed) dowel but make up a balsa support to go inside of the bamboo outline.I hope this makes sense and is just for your consideration.If you like I'm sure I have a picture somewhere I can post.

I have the plans for the 11 and was thinking of blowing them up to 1/4 scale but am now leaning towards a nieuport 27 or an SE5a.Of course this is far in the future.

J

jtisch

I found this picture of a nice Proctor N.11.I think there were two of them at the Dawn Patrol event(Oregon).Nice flyers.

abufletcher

I was in love with this model LONG before (decades before) I got into RC. I still have a well-worn Proctor catalog from the 1980's and I remember looking enviously at the box at a local model shop. But in those days the $250 price tag might as well have been a million.

In many ways, this model (and it's really more the model than the specific aircraft) completely redefined my ideas of what scale modeling was about.

CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

Summerwind,

From the forward cowl face to the forward surface of the firewall is about 3 1/8" and the diameter is 8 1/2". If you decide to use 4-stroke power you'll probably need to make a clearance box in the firewall.

One thing other builders have made clear is that the N11 is easy to build tail heavy because of the very short distance between firewall and center of lift. I guess all the rotary-engined planes are sensitive like this but the N11 is especially so. So, the heavier weight of your .90FS would probably replace lead anyway. Might as well balance the plane with something useful.

The OS SF series engines however are probably my favorite 2-strokes because of their power, reliability and longevity. If it were me, I'd probably go with the SF and stack my servos up against the inside of the firewall. I plan to place my battery and fuel tank inside the cowl too.

CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Jtisch,
In the description I should have said "reed". It isn't bamboo. I'd like to see your method if you have a pic.

Abu,
Thanks for looking in. I've been enjoying your Snipe build. When you begin looking for another project the N11 might be picked up in the resale market reasonably and the box is small enough to ship to Japan. Also, if you're tight on space like me the 1/5 scale 63" span is much easier than the 1/4 scale planes. I plan to use the cylinders from the 1/6 Williams LeRhone with a scratch 1/5 scale crankcase.

summerwind

thx Mike
i just talked to Joe at Proctor......he said the same thing about boxing the firewall. he also said the 11 kits are a 4 week wait as he is the only one now that is producing the kit.
i have no problem waiting as long as you keep me nibling with pictures you post......4 weeks is fine with me.
it'll give me time to think about the power.
boy you really gave me the bug..........Joe also said the wire wheels are still available as well.................man i git it bad[sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=drowning.gif]

jtisch

CrateCrunhcer,
I found this picture.In this case the inside balsa is laminated strips (using a ply form to get the shape)and the reed dowel is added on the outside.it may be a little hard to see the reed dowel as the wood colors are almost the same.

jtisch

One more.

Here is a Fokker tail.Here I just used sheet balsa to form the outline for the reed dowel on the elevator counter-balances.It doesn't look like I have added the dowel yet in this picture.I may have gone a little overboard by using sheet for the entire outer bay but on my first Fokker I only had a laminated balsa outline and I was always breaking those counter-balances when transporting the model.

PS I really like your capstrip jig.I may have to steal your idea whenever I get around to making my Proctor Albatros

CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

Jtisch's photo in post #13 helps illustrate one of the subtle but important differences between Proctor and other kits. Notice the slight curve or undercamber in the wingtips when compared to the Sopwith's in the photo. When doing my laminated tips I made sure I didn't lose that aesthetic detail. It makes the whole wing look wafer thin. In the photo below I soaked 3 strips of 1/16" balsa in ammonia water, smeared them with a liberal amount of Titebond II and hammered them in place on a tracing from the plan. An exacto handle and some AC electric wiring staples convinced the part to shape itself into an airfoil. I'll let it dry overnight and see if it holds its shape.

CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

Jtisch, Thanks for sharing. The box stock Albatros rudder has been known to change its shape over time. The laminate backed reed looks like a good compromise between scale and dimension stability. Is your Fokker one of Glenn's kits?

jtisch

As for the rudder "changing shape",are you referring to the full-size originals or the models?The OAW-built DIIIs had a different shaped rudder than the Johannistahl built DIIIs.Sorry if I am missing the obvious.

The stab in the picture is for my DVII,which was originally a AZM ARF but I ended up scratching most of it.I do have a Glenn Torrence DRI as well as a WE Tech DRI plus a EV/DVIII and the aforementioned DVII.Love those Fokkers!I first used the reed/balsa arrangement in Glenn's kit and have been using it as much as I can ever since.I bought @$20 worth of reed dowel online(they sell it by the pound) in three sizes and now have enough to last me the rest of my life.

J

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Crate, thanks for your kind words.. The ideal engine (to my way of thinking) would be the Saito 90 three cylinder. Too bad its so expensive but I think it would be awsome!

jjscott

I'm really looking forward to this thread. I've got a Proctor Nieuport 11 on my to build list. Proctor just sent me a Laser 80 which will be its power. These are absolutely beautifully made, and I encourage anyone considering a 4 stroke to look at Lasers.

Jim

Mode One

Anybody interested in this kit I know where one is available for less then retail. PM me and I will put you in touch with the seller. It is being sold at my local hobby shop for the owner. I have eyeballed this thing for about a year now; but, how many Irons do I want in the fire!