jmohn

I had my last lock-out on the past Sunday. I lost my big Zero, which makes my fourth Spektrum lock-out and my last. I have had lock-out on all their receivers. Their receivers re-boot if there is any power fluctuation. The receivers theny take up to 13 seconds to re-establish a link with the transmitter. The new JR 9303 with the FAST system do not have this problem as they re-establis a link immediately. What is Horrizon doing about this problem? I have two Spectrum transmitters (DX6 & DX&) and 12 receivers (6000, 6100, 6200 & 7000). In addition I have lost four very nice aircraft and components (ESCs, motors, batteries, etc.). I was fortunate that none of the aircraft caused any damage to property or a persons.

I have now purchased a JR X9303 radio and with the new software on this system it does not have this problem. The FAST system fixes this lock-out issue.

What's up?

fizzwater2

My Feedback: (61)

I thought FASST was Futaba? Where can one learn more about the JR version?

SansHeli

I have asked a similar question before on this forum, Danny and have yet to receive a reply - what is this "new software" or new unpublicised Spektrum feature (I've seen it referred to as "quick link" too) that we are hearing about?

Is it TX or RX related and which models have it?

Some info PLEASE.

SansHeli

onewasp

I have flown the DX7 for over one year-----adopted early.
Our area embraced the Spektrum DX7 heavily----also quite a number of Module conversions-----and now X9303.
We haven't even had a newbie crash one much less the old hands. In the immediate area we have over ten very active clubs (that many more if you include the bedroom communities).
Average memberships are roughly 100 fliers each ---one has 250+.

Still not one mishap. The only place any of us have encountered "brown outs/lock outs" is right here on these forums.

We even have a forty+ percent bipe running all digitals and a 4.8volt 2300mah pack-------no problem.
Most of the old hands started out with 5 low impedance Sanyo FAUP cells (noBSbatteries). We had been running five cell packs in the performance A/C before Spektrum appeared so we simply continued with the tried and true pack.

I have now switched to A123 2300mah and I would expect many of the others will do so also.
Kind of a "no brainer" when you look at the specs and discharge curves.

I can't tell you why you say that you have had lock outs when none of us have experienced anything of the kind.

Sorry you've missed out on the fun but from where we stand your experience is VERY, VERY unusual.
We don't even have a single HAM on anything but Spektrum now----I flew on six for over thirty years----no more!
The other HAMS watched my experience (I was simply the first HAM to switch to Spektrum in our area) now there isn't a single one still flying six!

It simply has to be something in your installation------as unpopular as that thought will be to you.

It certainly isn't in the equipment or we would have seen it as we have so many in operation. Virtually in every RC discipline and size too.

???????

Tommy_Gun

Show me on this page where anything referring to "FAST" is mentioned.

http://www.jrradios.com/Products/Def...ProdID=JRP2910

My point being, if you can't keep your nomenclature straight, maybe you need to read the instructions a little closer.

Perhaps then you would have better luck with your equipment.

ntsmith

Hey,
I gotta add my bit here.
I went over to Dx7 and now use the X9303 and I would not swap either for the world. Never a doubtfull moment. A secure strong link that one can almost feel is more secure and as for brown outs. ever.
I have used all kind of power set ups and never have I had any probs. Stop knokin the gear. Its great.
Didnt Sherlock Holmes say that first you should check all the most likely things and then no matter how unlikey the remainig things are, they have to be considered suspect. Something like that but you get the gist.
Happy Christmas and I'll be out as usual tomorrow flyin on 2.4Ghz without any doubts what so ever.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Easy now, Easy..... No need to snap at him. After all, he's the one who has lost planes. That hurts. Our time would be better spent in pursuit of answers and solutions. Perhaps he does need to read his instructions a little closer. But there's no need to say it like that, even if it was not Christmas day today. jmohn, I cannot imagine why you have lost 4 planes without contacting JR and getting answers. I mean, 4 planes?? Did you contact AMA and get a meter to check your field? Did you send you equipment in to JR? Did you use higher amperage, 5-cell packs for your radio? Did you use a separate pack for your electrics? There are many, many unanswered questions here, although I would think that if you had been addressing this in another forum that you would have continued the thread in there rather than start this one here at your 4th aircraft loss.
To be completely honest, I have had exactly the same experience as onewasp. MANY pilots at the three fields I fly at now use the Spektrum, and ALL of them are having unprecedented success with them, as am I. I was visiting San Antonio and visited several fields there and talked to many old friends, and they are having the same good experiences with their Spektrums as we are here in Maine. And, like onewasp, I can't shake the feeling that something in your setup is responsible. Something perhaps not too obvious, like RX antennas touching metal rods or linkages. Whatever the problem, that's why we all gather here...to help each other out with problems, sometimes extremely frustrating problems. So if you're just going to throw it away and go get something else, I don't know why you bothered to post here. If you want to try to address the problem and find out what's been happening, this is the place to start, and I know Danny is paying attention most days. I can't think of anything worse than trying a whole new setup and losing more aircraft before you try to find out what is really wrong there.

Let's not forget that most of these Spektrum problems here involve multiple plane losses, but most of all that we never hear exactly what the problem had been....and there's probably one or two reasons for that. First, something I know I've done in the past...come into the RCU forums and complain LOUDLY, only to find I was doing something wrong, so I'd slink away as quietly as possible. And secondly, Danny is probably enough of a gentleman that he doesn't rat these guys out for their foibles. Usually there is a simple answer, especially with these Spektrums. I found out TWO things early on with these; MAKE SURE yours is binding properly and that they range-check, and and don't let your antenna touch metal parts. I'll bet there are a few other must-dos I will learn. But as a good friend of mine said to me some years back; "There are about 800 things that can drop your plane from the sky, I'm pretty sure I have about 650 of them covered most of the time!" He lost a plane and a Quadra 62 that day from a hit.

Jim

SansHeli

Here is a quote from Paul Beard from Spektrum (he should know, shouldn't he?) in response to a posting in another forum topic "X9303 + R921 Receiver WIERD BEHAIVOR"
So it seems that both jmohn and I didn't get the name of this "new feature" quite right - jmhon called it "FAST" and I called it "Quick Connect" when in fact it is "Fast Connect".

BTW I have been using a Spektrum module in my XP9303 radio for a couple of months now and I have a range of Spektrum receivers in all of my models from a AR6100 in my foamie to AR9000's in my Helis. I have been more than happy with the Spektrum equipment - no radio related mishaps (so far).

Once again, Danny, can you please tell us more about this "new feature" and which radios and receivers support it.

Thank you.

SansHeli

jmohn

Sorry about the name switch, quick or fast but it works without any lock-outs while the receiver re-boots.

Those of you that haven't had problems, will. I have spoken with the developer of the Spektrum system and he is aware of the problem. I have witnesses for all the crashes and they can back-up my claims. Also if you would like to try it for yourself: take your receiver, hook it up to a battery pack (receiver pack), hook up at least one servo, turn on the transmitter and start moving the servo. Wiggle the battery wire until you get a power disruption, see how long it takes for the receiver to re-establish the link. It will vary from servo to servo. I have tested a bunch and have had them re-establish a link quickly (<1.0 sec) and as long as 13 seconds. Try this with your old 72 mghz receviers and see what happens, they "glitch" and re-establish the link instantanoiusly.

Why do you think Spektrum changed the firmware on the 6100 (first gen) receivers? They had a lot of issues with these. Also, they now have capacitor that you can add to your receiver to "buffer" the battery voltage. This doesn't work either.

I have tried hard to adopt the Spektrum system and just can't loose another plane to this unsafe and unreliable system.

Cambo

My Feedback: (2)

How do you wiggle the wire to get battery disruption?

Ed

If you get a " Power Disruption ", it's not the receivers fault, It's your fault.

> Jim

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

I haven't heard Danny say that there is a problem, and I've been reading lots of these posts. Lots of rumors. Always somebody who knows somebody who did this or that. When Danny tells me there is a problem, then I'll say there is a problem. But nobody that I know personally with Spektrums (and I know TONS of people) have had a single problem.
Personally, I'm still trying to figure out why somebody would put any battery with shaky wiring in any type of model aircraft, especially the expensive ones mentioned earlier. Something here does not add up. Thousands, maybe tens of thousands of these out, and here in a worldwide forum we have maybe a handful of guys with problems, and practically every one of those guys has the same type of problems....repeatedly. Who knows? Maybe guys with these problems SHOULD switch to something else, this technology and them don't seem to get along. It scares me to think that a modeler could talk about having a battery wire that shorts if you wiggle it enough (as though that's normal) and then talk about wanting to get the faster technology instead to take care of that...rather than making sure he has good battery leads. Then refer to a system that has been nothing but safe and reliable for everybody I know with it and call it unsafe and unreliable. I think I've got a handle on what's unsafe and unreliable here.....now.
Good thing I've been advocating no snapping or name calling here.........

Jim

jmohn

I am just trying to show you how to cause the problem. It's caused by some disruption to the voltage or amps. Power short, esc spike, etc. It may be also partially attributed to some brands of esc's, but regardless of the issue it's happened with the battery packs supplied by Spektrum, and others. Try disconnecting the battery wire from the receiver and see what happens to your receiver. It will have to reboot. The time to reboot will crash your plane. This does not happen with any other receivers!

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

That all vague. You've got nothing concrete. Most of the issues you are offhandedly referring to have been addressed, most by simply adding a larger pack with an extra cell or in electrics by simply adding an RX battery pack instead of the BEC.
"This does not happen with other receivers!" you say. No, the old receivers just locked up when somebody turned on another radio on that channel. ALL OF THEM DID THAT, not one hundredth of one percent of them. Talk about spin city, good thing this guy never had to fly in the eighties.
I'm not arguing with this guy any further, it's like having a duel with an unarmed opponent.
Jimbo out.

Howard

My Feedback: (55)

I think you stated your case quite clearly - if the power is disrupted a long receiver reboot time is a serious problem. I find that very easy to understand and apparently so does Spektrum. Thanks for taking the time to point this out and thanks for the direct effort with Spektrum - it is nice to know they are aware and have been working on a solution. Open discussion on these sort of issues helps keep manufacturers and suppliers motivated to improve or fix what is being discussed. With respect to those who don't want to the reboot time reduced I would just smile and wink.

jerdavis

My Feedback: (3)

I have a synthesized 72 FM receiver (the brand will go unnamed) that will lock out and not "reboot" without recycling the switch, if the power is interrupted with a bad battery connection. So this reboot problem is not exclusive to anyone.

I would suggest that you don't fly with a poor battery connection or expect to crash.
JD

ch1

Thanks jmohn. Its important that this information get out. Don't let the Spektrum "fan boys" try and get you down.

ch1

jmohn

Guys, I was a Spektrum fan. I have a DX6 and DX7 radio and at least 12 receviers. I had Spektrum on all my planes except a couple, so it's not like I didn't like the product. I bought into it big time. I have been working with Spektrum on this issue for about 9 months now and was hoping it had been resolved by my using a recevier pack for power instead of using the esc or bec, but it's still happening. I had done everything they have recommended and still have re-boots (lock outs). My issue is flying a large plane 8-15 lbs. without any control around people and property. If it hits someone it could seriously hurt them. I have been fortunate and all four planes have not hit anyone or anything. Sure the loss of my components and aircraft is upsetting, but not as bad if I had been sued by someone for an out of control aircraft. One of the planes started a small grass fire which with the help of four other guys we were able to stomp out before it got out of control.

I should mention all my aircraft are electric powered. I hope they do something soon before a seroius injury occurs.

ntsmith

"8 - 15lb plane NEAR TO PROPERTY" Now that does worry me.
"Jiggle the battery lead 'till it loses connection" comment also worries me.
I can remeber when I started into electrics about a year ago. I lost two planes on the trot. I was lucky when I got to the third as I could demonstrate with a range check I would have problems. Had I carried out a proper honest pre-flight range test with engine running I could have prevented the first two crashes. I never could resolve the problem and all were on a VERY HIGH END 35Mhz system. In the end after changing EVERYTHING. yep, EVERYTHING I still had problems. I never did resolve the problem. Sold all my 35Mhz stuff and went to Spektrum and never had a problwem since. What I am saying is that we cannot always find the definative answers we would like. Do you have ANY aircraft that NEVER have a problem. If you do then put that set in one of your models that has these problems and see what happens. You may still have the problem; it may be resolved; and the answer may get so confusing you get like I did. to the point of nearly tearing my hair out. It is because the Spektrum resolved ALL my probs that I am such an avid fan. I really do hope the problem can be found but your power connections and fitting of all your onboard flight components need to be rigourosly checked. I dodgy powr lead is definately a no no.

jmohn

Nigel,

All my aircraft have had new components, new tight leads, new batteries, new receivers and many flights on them before this problem occurred. I had 12 aircraft flying on the Spektrum system. Four crashed, the rest are fine and I haven't had any issues with them. It's happend mostly with my larger airplanes using 5S or 6S pack (3 of them) and one using a 3S pack. The 3S pack is most concerning since the majority of park fliers use this size pack. I can't imagine what else I could do to solve this problem. I always to full pre-flight checks and make sure all my components are in good working order. All the planes locked in flight and when I reached them on the ground the controls were working again. This tells me it's not a battery issue as it was still working? Only one plane wasn't working when I reached it, but that's because it was on fire from a lipo pack damaged by the crash.

I have been and am still trying to work this out with Spektrum, but so far they haven't addressed this issue. I will not use any of their receivers anymore. I have switched to the new JR X9303 system with quick connect. We have tested this system and are satisfied by it's performance and re-connect time if you loose connection. This is what all second gen Spektrum 9000 receivers will have, so that will reslove the problem for that receiver, but not for the older ones as it's not upgradable.

smarks

Just curious if your planes that have gone into brown-out and ultimately crashed have had a dedicated Rx battery or BEC running off the motor battery? It obviously appears that this condition has something to do with all your planes being electrics. Either way, a bummer. Sorry to hear of your troubles. I can relate, as I have fought radio issues before switching to SS. They can be extremely frustrating.

jmohn

Two of the planes were using recevier packs (one a Spektrum pack supplied with the DX7 system), one was using a UBEC and a 1320 3S lipo pack for the recevier and the other was using the BEC on the ESC (Castle 45). All these planes had had many flights without issues until the lock-out happened. Maybe it's just an electric plane issue? Don't know, but there are sure a lot of people flying electrics today, so I expect the problem to get much worse.

smarks

Interesting. I was expecting to see a correlation between the brown outs and no dedicated Rx pack. On the two planes you lost that were using dedicated Rx packs, were you checking the pack voltage under a 1 amp load between flights? Even if those packs were dedicated to the Rx, if they were to lose enough voltage under a load and spike the Rx, or have a bad cell, it would cause a brown out. Similarly, if your voltage were to drop below the 3.5v using a BEC, UBEC, your Rx wouldn't like it. I have two electrics with SS, and have not had an issue like this. I am interested in hearing Spektrum's theories.

jmohn

Both of the planes with the Rx pack were fresh off the charger and it was my first flight one each pack. After each crash the packs were checked and they were fine with plenty of ahrs left for additional flights. The other two were in the same condition after the flight/crash. Each battery pack was not run long enough to cause the esc or bec to cut power. All these flights were under 4 minutes into their flights on fresh packs. I only use one power supply into my receivers when using a bec or rx pack. I cut the middle power wire on the esc so I don't supply more voltage.

Believe me, I have been trying everything to fix this problem and have about $2,000 invested in Spektrum stuff at this point so I really wasn't looking to change radios. If I thought I could trust this system I would still be using it.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

This afternoon my friends and I hooked up ALL the spektrum recievers we had and checked and double-checked, ALL of them took less than a second to re-acquire, most of them MUCH less. As usual, stellar Spektrum performance, much to my delight. Of course, we used good connectors, good batteries, double-pole switches. You know, we were THOROUGH and CAREFUL and used safety-conscious, common-sense applications that we have always used. Don't get me wrong, I look forward to what will be even better, quicker-acting technology arriving. Just as I once looked forward to fully proportional AM controls, then FM, then Gold Labels, then PCM, and then Spektrum. And each and every time I enjoyed the benefits of such advances and maximized them with good solid power and wiring. And each and every time I witnessed the fumblings and invariably bad luck experienced by the less thorough and less cautious.

This, my friends, is no exception. This I guarantee you.

Jim