mmattockx

I am starting to come to the realization that I like building more than flying. Once the creation of the model is done I seem to lose interest in it. At this point in my life, my spare time is in very short supply as well. Which is kind of leaving me time for building OR flying, but not really both. For me, that is an easy choice. I will keep a couple of personal planes for when the urge strikes and I have time. SO. This leaves me with looking for something to do with kits when they are built. I have never before sold a plane I have built, they all die on their own one way or another. With that in mind, here are some questions:

1) Where do people sell most of their models? Clubs? Online?
2) Is it reasonable to simply build planes, then sell them? I don't want to take work for pay, because I am slow with the limited time I have. Someone might wait a LONG time for a model from me.
3) Should I cover in basic colors (all white, yellow, etc.) as a sort of ARF that lets people do their own trim? Or only build the airframe and sell it as an ARC?

Any thoughts/comments/experiences welcome.

Thanks,
Mark

FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

Mark, I think you would be hard pressed to even break even selling a built plane. It costs too much, and most people are not willing to fork out what it would cost just to cover the expense of the parts you put into a plane. I have sold a couple really nice kit-built planes in great condition when I no longer enjoyed the models, and maybe recooped 1/2 to 3/4 of my investment, and that's not taking into consideration the time spent on the assembly. That's why ARFs are so popular now. Add to that the cost of shipping, and it makes it impracticle to sell a built plane for profit. Most people looking at an assembled kit-built plane question the workmanship of an unknown builder as well.

dhal22

most of the planes for sale here on RCU are being listed at or below cost. if you research the cost of the plane, engine, servos etc you will find many planes for sale below actual hard costs. you get the assembly for free. that makes it tough to make a profit selling planes.

david

TFF

No matter how complicated the plane, the buyer wants it NOW. Don't kill your hobby by putting pressure on it.

deckerv

My Feedback: (21)

If you do it simply for the love of the hobby, more power to you I have in the past built models for other people, but not for money. I've built a Goldberg Chipmunk and covered/installed everything to make it RTF for a Futaba 8ch radio, have built a Goldberg Sukhoi for a Sukhoi kit and glue, Goldberg Extra 300 for the same...etc... I have done it mostly (and would love to still do it) for the love of the hobby.

mmattockx

I would be happy to break even or make a slight profit. I just like to build and eventually I will have a basement full of models if I don't move them out somehow. I agree on the ARF thing, they are so cheap that it is economically impossible to justify building a kit or from scratch (although scratch is closer if you are careful). Of course, you get what you pay for most of the time, too. I KNOW my glue joints are sound and if I ever covered as bad as many of the ARF's I see, I would be ashamed to show anyone. But the rest of the world doesn't necessarily see it that way.

Mark

mmattockx

I know that would happen. That is why I would be very reluctant to take specific projects, because I am slow with the time I have available. I was thinking more along the lines of building popular kits on spec and then selling them when I finished, to whoever wanted it. Sounds like that is not a reasonable option at the moment.

Mark

Tony Hallo

I also enjoy buuilding, I find it better to build a plane for somebody as the market is set at the beginning of the project rather than building a plane and trying to find someone willing to pay for the plane you built. Do it for love, not money. I also discovered that once a project begins for somebody else, my credit card balance begins to drop as I start spending their money!

Insanemoondoggie

When you do a trade like this , do you build both at once ?

mmattockx

Fair point. I was thinking of doing mostly smaller 40-60 sized kits to keep the investment down so that I didn't have a problem if it sat for a while before I sold it. It is easier to have a fixed outcome, though. I definitely would be doing it for love of building, there isn't any money to be made doing it. This is just a way to let me keep building without being over run by finished models.

Mark

vmsguy

I think, if you were to build planes with the expectation of selling them later, you'd want to target planes that are NOT available in ARF form. Or at least not in ARF form in the size you're thinking of building. It would be a difficult balance. You want to build planes that are popular enough that people recognize and hence want to buy them, but not popular enough that other manufacturers are already producing ARFs of.

I think if you go in with the idea "I'm going to build this plane, fly it a little, then sell it." Knowing you probably won't make any money at it. (Or very little) you'd do OK. If while you're building, you spread the word on what you're building, then by the time it's done, there already may be a buyer. Or take requests, so you can compile a list of planes to build.

I thought of doing the same thing, but I know I'd never get rich, or even make a living, doing it.

dr_wogz

My Feedback: (3)

I’m basically in the same boat. I love building! And I have a stack of kits to build.

I have also built for others.

No, no money to be made. But I found the building for others to be a bit stressful. They want it when they want it. It may be a kit / plane that really doesn’t interest me, or is a horrendous kit (one experience!) And that ‘due-day’ is closer than you’d realize! I found lots of things pop up, and you’re forced to build, especially when you’re not in the mood. Really adds to the stress levels!

I believe most planes offered for sale are just that, 2nd hand planes that have had a few flights. They’re being sold to thin the fleet, and/or because of lost interest. I would like to believe that freshly built virgin planes would be worth more.

I’m altering my building plan, and will soon be building the planes I want when I want. I’d then be showing them off at the local field, followed by offering them ‘on consignment’ to / through the local hobby shops. I have been told that this method works: Apparently there is a ‘want’ for certain & unique planes, and most would like them “new�. And we’ve all seen planes hanging from the ceilings of the local hobby shops!

I expect to recoup the cost of the kit & items used. Nothing more. Basically getting the kit & costs covered, and only time (and a few small things) out of my own pocket.
So, my “asking $200� would break down to something like $110 for the kit, $60 for covering / finishing, and $30 for glues & other sundry items (tank, wheels, etc..).. I’d be including a note to say “This place was built with the following intensions: OS LA-40, Futaba 3004 servos, etc.. Alter to suite your particular needs.� Servo horns would be installed on the push-rods, and the engine mount may or may not be drilled for a specific & suitable engine. (An exposed / non-cowled engine would not have a pre-drilled mount.)

This way, they can drop in their servos, and drop in the engine. Other radio gear is installed as required. The dwgs & manual would also be included in the package.

At least, that’s my plan to sooth the building bug! Nothin more. Just to scratch the itch!

TFF

I know the problem, your too good a pilot; you need to crash more!

mmattockx

I've done my share of that, all right. That's why I have never sold one before...

I am just seeing that I will have a lot more building time than flying time over the next few years, between work, family and weather. That will mean I have less time to crash them and more to create.


Mark

Cub Man

My Feedback: (50)

I personally like building and flying, I have a service for my area where I will put an ARF together, Build a kit or repair minor damage. I will say it is great to go to the field and see a plane you worked on in the air. I charge by the job, and use most of the money I make to build what I want and to go to fly-ins.

sscherin

My Feedback: (1)

Do you think there would be any interest in vintage fabric covered planes?
There's a whole fleet of biplane plans out there that would look great in fabric.

I thought it was a good idea at first but some people may not like it because a repair isn't as simple as ironing on a patch.

I'd like to build to order but my build times are measured in months and sometimes years.

Maybe if I cleaned the workshop and left an area the kids could play while I worked... A clean workshop, dare I dream?

Mode One

Turning something you love to do, into a job, many time pushes the love of the activity out the door and simply converts it to a job. My recommendation would be to at least build the airplanes YOU want to build and then sell them after their done. Taking orders from people somehow lets them steer the project and they will turn themselves into genuine pains in the __! If you were going to do this as a business, then yes, you have to let the customer have it his way. However, if you do it as an artist, then you are in control! Since there is no money in this idea, why would you let them give you any grief? If it will be for fun, then by all means, have at it!

Broken Wings

My Feedback: (20)

The Bridi Trainer 60 or RCM Advanced tranier MKII would sell. A Great Planes Trainer 60 just went for $151.00 on *bay and a Kit Cutter's kit of the model is $200.
These are basically the same model with different names.

Just My opinion...

vmsguy

That's my thought/recommendation too... Build planes YOU are interested in building, as you approach completion advertise it for sale. Maybe stop construction when you are ready to start covering. This serves three purposes. 1. You avoid some hanger rash. 2. You can then offer to sell the plane covered as the buyer wishes. 3. If the buyer wants to see the plane, they can see how it's constructed. Nothing hiding under coverings.

Again as I said in an earlier post. Pick planes that are somewhat popular, so that other flyers will have heard about them. Say you build "A Flying Whizbee." A Flying Whizbee might be the best airplane designed since the Wright Flyer, but if you're the only one that knows about it, knows what it can do, you're going to be the only one who will want it. You've got to choose airplanes that are common enough that other people know about them. But also, the plane needs to be rare enough that an ARF doesn't already exist for it. If other people know about them they may want them. If other people don't know about a plane, they definitely WON'T want it.

Maybe choose an airplane that a kit used to exist, but is hard to come by now. Example, Sterling's larger Stearman. When a kit for one of these comes onto ebay.. look at the price! Or choose an airplane in a size that isn't available. A .60 size Pitts Special (assuming one doesn't already exists that is....) I hope that makes sense....

NorfolkSouthern

The idea of building a popular kit that they don't make an ARF for sounds like it would work. The Ultra Sport 60 and 40 are a couple that are frequently talked about as being the best ever in flying capability, yet they are not offered as an ARF. If you were to build one with the prototype's color scheme, I'm sure there would be a buyer some place.

NorfolkSouthern

tam popo

Hiya guys - saw this post by accident, but there's only one gent on these threads I know who makes some sort of living from building planes, mainly electric (all sorts, even EDF), and thats "Airborne In Japan" from the Baddius Club thread - he's a regular. He does live in Japan but is English by birth, married to a lovely japanese wife and has 2 adorable kids. Building shed - put beds in it and let it out!! He won't be a millionaire on building but he makes enough, but he gets the pleasure of building. Hope this helps....gotta go now, planes to crash and build...or is it the other way around....??

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

One other thing you may want to consider. If you think you may be selling a model you are building, thing about shipping. Shipping rates have become very high, and can put an otherwise "goog deal" out of site. If possible, make changes to the build that will allow more disassembly of a model, such as removeable, or plug-in stabs, and 2 piece wings.

mmattockx

Terry,

That is a good consideration. It would be easy enough on a lot of models to leave the wing halves separate and not install the stab until I am sure where the plane would be going. Pretty much at the same stage as an ARF comes out of the box.

For those discussing making a living off building, that is not at all what I am thinking about. I already make a good living as a consulting engineer, I don't need another job. What I am looking at is financing my building habit by selling off models as I finish them. If I can get kit cost and material costs covered by a sale, that means I am building for free. That's kind of like free drugs to a junkie in my case... I would get to build models for no out of pocket cost, which is a great deal to me.

Good points about building what I am interested in instead of what I think would sell the best. I will keep that in mind if I get to selling stuff off. I do this because I enjoy it and have no interest in simply building whatever for pay. That would turn my hobby into work and I am not interested in that at all.

The Ultrasport 40 and 60 idea is a great one. Instead of kits, I would be tempted to get set up with a laser cutter and get ribs, formers and fuse sides cut to match the RCM plans and just scratch build them. They are an easy build and I know I could do that significantly cheaper than buying the kits.

I have also thought of re-engineering the Goldberg Extra 300 (which is a great flying model) with sheeted foam wings and airfoil stab, two piece wing and wing tube, balsa/foam turtledecks and balsa sides. I would use the CG canopy and aftermarket cowl and LG. I am sure I could get that down around 8lb with standard balsa and probably 7.5lb with contest wood. I just don't know if anyone would be interested in it anymore. The market has kind of split around that size of model and there isn't much demand it would seem. Maybe with bigger control surfaces as a 3D machine it would sell. The basic design is a very good platform for either precision flying or 3D, depending on how it is set up.

Thanks for all the replies, there have been some very good points to think about.


Mark

deckerv

My Feedback: (21)

I usually build both at the same time.. Mine is the 1st one that I do a step on, then work on the 2nd plane at the same step. That way if I find anything I don't like on my kit, I can change it for the customer's kit. Well..actually I do about 3 or 4 steps on mine, then turn around and do the same on the customer's with any mods that I can see would make it better.

Warbird Joe

MMATTAOCKX , My suggestion then is that if you like to build the planes then make contact with any of the local hobby shops and see if they would put them in their store to be sold. then you can build them and make money. Granted you aren't going to get rich doing so because you will never recover the cost of time but you may be able to get the cost of the model. Good luck with your builds.