SM F-16 1/8 settings
09-04-2009 | 06:21 PM
#76
RE: SM F-16 1/8 settings
Correct....
Imagine that you don´t have the 3th tank and have only the 2 mains in parallel connected to the UAT. The mains are very long with a reduced height. If you run those in parallel a make some manouvers or turn too much to one side, you have a serious risk of letting air going to the UAT, specialy after the first minutes where fuel level in mains is low. It happen to me in the first flights and then changed the set up in the mains for series. Also happened twice in other 2 F16 here. All have changed to series.
If those tanks were built in height rather than in lenght, you would not have this risk so high. I strongly recomend you not to use parallel without the 3th tank or a high volume UAT.
Regards
Nuno
Imagine that you don´t have the 3th tank and have only the 2 mains in parallel connected to the UAT. The mains are very long with a reduced height. If you run those in parallel a make some manouvers or turn too much to one side, you have a serious risk of letting air going to the UAT, specialy after the first minutes where fuel level in mains is low. It happen to me in the first flights and then changed the set up in the mains for series. Also happened twice in other 2 F16 here. All have changed to series.
If those tanks were built in height rather than in lenght, you would not have this risk so high. I strongly recomend you not to use parallel without the 3th tank or a high volume UAT.
Regards
Nuno
09-04-2009 | 09:43 PM
#77
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From: BarranquillaAtlantico, COLOMBIA
RE: SM F-16 1/8 settings
ORIGINAL: jetnuno
Correct....
Imagine that you don´t have the 3th tank and have only the 2 mains in parallel connected to the UAT. The mains are very long with a reduced height. If you run those in parallel a make some manouvers or turn too much to one side, you have a serious risk of letting air going to the UAT, specialy after the first minutes where fuel level in mains is low. It happen to me in the first flights and then changed the set up in the mains for series. Also happened twice in other 2 F16 here. All have changed to series.
If those tanks were built in height rather than in lenght, you would not have this risk so high. I strongly recomend you not to use parallel without the 3th tank or a high volume UAT.
Regards
Nuno
Correct....
Imagine that you don´t have the 3th tank and have only the 2 mains in parallel connected to the UAT. The mains are very long with a reduced height. If you run those in parallel a make some manouvers or turn too much to one side, you have a serious risk of letting air going to the UAT, specialy after the first minutes where fuel level in mains is low. It happen to me in the first flights and then changed the set up in the mains for series. Also happened twice in other 2 F16 here. All have changed to series.
If those tanks were built in height rather than in lenght, you would not have this risk so high. I strongly recomend you not to use parallel without the 3th tank or a high volume UAT.
Regards
Nuno
Another complication[:@][:@][:@]
Guys, what do you think?
Please lets get to a final conclusion.... I am getting crazy at just one week of my maiden...... I am about to delay it.......
Chances are:
1- No 3th tank main fuel tanks in parallel C.G 165-175mm with LG down and UAT full
2- No 3th tank main fuel tanks in series C.G 165-175mm with LG down and UAT full
3- 3th tank main fuel tanks in parallel C.G 165-175mm with LG down, UAT full and 3th tank full
4- 3th tank main fuel tanks in series C.G 165-175mm with LG down, UAT full and 3th tank ful
5- 3th tank main fuel tanks in parallel C.G 165-175mm with LG down, UAT full and 3th tank half full
6- 3th tank main fuel tanks in seriesl C.G 165-175mm with LG down, UAT full and 3th tank half full
The main differences between choices are: plumbing in paralell or series, 3th tank or no 3th tank and balancing with 3 th tank full or half full.
I assume that C.G. is not part of this discussion as I have seen that many of us choiced aft 165mm, and balancing with 3th empty isn't either.
I dont know how to set a page for voting but all of us can vote just for a number that represent the option choiced.
Please give me a hand
This is a serious problem because all the opinion here are from self experiences flying thos jet
Thanks Nuno[&o]
09-04-2009 | 09:46 PM
#78
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From: BarranquillaAtlantico, COLOMBIA
RE: SM F-16 1/8 settings
ORIGINAL: Guillermo Ibanez
Jesus!!!
Another complication[:@][:@][:@]
Guys, what do you think?
Please lets go to a final conclusion.... I am getting crazy at just one week of my maiden...... I am about to delay it.......
Chances are:
1- No 3th tank, main fuel tanks in parallel C.G 165-175mm with LG down and UAT full
2- No 3th tank, main fuel tanks in series C.G 165-175mm with LG down and UAT full
3- 3th tank, main fuel tanks in parallel C.G 165-175mm with LG down, UAT full and 3th tank full
4- 3th tank, main fuel tanks in series C.G 165-175mm with LG down, UAT full and 3th tank ful
5- 3th tank, main fuel tanks in parallel C.G 165-175mm with LG down, UAT full and 3th tank half full
6- 3th tank, main fuel tanks in seriesl C.G 165-175mm with LG down, UAT full and 3th tank half full
The main differences between choices are: plumbing in paralell or series, 3th tank or no 3th tank and balancing with 3 th tank full or half full.
I assume that C.G. is not part of this discussion as I have seen that many of us choiced aft 165mm, and balancing with 3th empty isn't either.
I dont know how to set a page for voting but all of us can vote just for a number that represent the option choiced.
Please give me a hand
This is a serious problem because all the opinion here are from self experiences flying thos jet
If you go to Tamjets F-16 instructions, you can see that fuel cells are high instead of long and are located at each turbine sides close to C.G. althouh it has a 3th tank in the same place where we are discussing to place our 3th tank
Thanks Nuno[&o]
ORIGINAL: jetnuno
Correct....
Imagine that you don´t have the 3th tank and have only the 2 mains in parallel connected to the UAT. The mains are very long with a reduced height. If you run those in parallel a make some manouvers or turn too much to one side, you have a serious risk of letting air going to the UAT, specialy after the first minutes where fuel level in mains is low. It happen to me in the first flights and then changed the set up in the mains for series. Also happened twice in other 2 F16 here. All have changed to series.
If those tanks were built in height rather than in lenght, you would not have this risk so high. I strongly recomend you not to use parallel without the 3th tank or a high volume UAT.
Regards
Nuno
Correct....
Imagine that you don´t have the 3th tank and have only the 2 mains in parallel connected to the UAT. The mains are very long with a reduced height. If you run those in parallel a make some manouvers or turn too much to one side, you have a serious risk of letting air going to the UAT, specialy after the first minutes where fuel level in mains is low. It happen to me in the first flights and then changed the set up in the mains for series. Also happened twice in other 2 F16 here. All have changed to series.
If those tanks were built in height rather than in lenght, you would not have this risk so high. I strongly recomend you not to use parallel without the 3th tank or a high volume UAT.
Regards
Nuno
Another complication[:@][:@][:@]
Guys, what do you think?
Please lets go to a final conclusion.... I am getting crazy at just one week of my maiden...... I am about to delay it.......
Chances are:
1- No 3th tank, main fuel tanks in parallel C.G 165-175mm with LG down and UAT full
2- No 3th tank, main fuel tanks in series C.G 165-175mm with LG down and UAT full
3- 3th tank, main fuel tanks in parallel C.G 165-175mm with LG down, UAT full and 3th tank full
4- 3th tank, main fuel tanks in series C.G 165-175mm with LG down, UAT full and 3th tank ful
5- 3th tank, main fuel tanks in parallel C.G 165-175mm with LG down, UAT full and 3th tank half full
6- 3th tank, main fuel tanks in seriesl C.G 165-175mm with LG down, UAT full and 3th tank half full
The main differences between choices are: plumbing in paralell or series, 3th tank or no 3th tank and balancing with 3 th tank full or half full.
I assume that C.G. is not part of this discussion as I have seen that many of us choiced aft 165mm, and balancing with 3th empty isn't either.
I dont know how to set a page for voting but all of us can vote just for a number that represent the option choiced.
Please give me a hand
This is a serious problem because all the opinion here are from self experiences flying thos jet
If you go to Tamjets F-16 instructions, you can see that fuel cells are high instead of long and are located at each turbine sides close to C.G. althouh it has a 3th tank in the same place where we are discussing to place our 3th tank
Thanks Nuno[&o]
09-05-2009 | 12:22 PM
#79
RE: SM F-16 1/8 settings
Hi Gullermo
Just when you think you're done...
Esto no son pajas
Seriously, I don't want to annoying you but when I read the parallel mains connected to UAT, wanted to share this with you. See what happened in this video of a friend F16 with serial tanks and no UAT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GXZ6_gzv-M
I vote for option 5 because you have a P80 and probably you are ending up using some fuel from the 3th tank.
Good luck
Nuno
Just when you think you're done...
Esto no son pajasSeriously, I don't want to annoying you but when I read the parallel mains connected to UAT, wanted to share this with you. See what happened in this video of a friend F16 with serial tanks and no UAT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GXZ6_gzv-M
I vote for option 5 because you have a P80 and probably you are ending up using some fuel from the 3th tank.
Good luck
Nuno
09-05-2009 | 09:42 PM
#80
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From: BarranquillaAtlantico, COLOMBIA
RE: SM F-16 1/8 settings
ORIGINAL: jetnuno
Hi Gullermo
Just when you think you're done... Esto no son pajas
Seriously, I don't want to annoying you but when I read the parallel mains connected to UAT, wanted to share this with you. See what happened in this video of a friend F16 with serial tanks and no UAT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GXZ6_gzv-M
I vote for option 5 because you have a P80 and probably you are ending up using some fuel from the 3th tank.
Good luck
Nuno
Hi Gullermo
Just when you think you're done...
Esto no son pajasSeriously, I don't want to annoying you but when I read the parallel mains connected to UAT, wanted to share this with you. See what happened in this video of a friend F16 with serial tanks and no UAT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GXZ6_gzv-M
I vote for option 5 because you have a P80 and probably you are ending up using some fuel from the 3th tank.
Good luck
Nuno
Sure he made many mistakes: 1- Hi didn't use a taxi tank
2- Hi didn't built altitude
3- Didn't retract the gear
4- Take too much time to react and turn into the runway....
Anyway, I think I am done next week.
Thanks for the video
09-10-2009 | 07:48 AM
#82
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From: BarranquillaAtlantico, COLOMBIA
RE: SM F-16 1/8 settings
ORIGINAL: maddogg
Hey Frank,
I just finished mine a couple weeks ago. Overall, it is a nice flying jet. DO NOT set the CG at the recommended 190-210mm located here: http://www.skymasterjet.com/image2/f16.18.jpg. You will have an uncontrollable aircraft on your hands. I initially set my CG at 165 mm which was way tail heavy. I now have mine set at 140mm and it flies very well both upright and just a touch of down inverted. The elevator is set at 40mm both up and down and the ailerons are set at 15mm up and down. The rudder is set at 25mm left and right. I let Skymaster-USA know about the CG listed on the website several weeks ago but it has not been corrected. I also sent an e-mail to Skymaster as well. So far I have heard nothing. Shoot me a PM with any more questions.
Maddogg
Hey Frank,
I just finished mine a couple weeks ago. Overall, it is a nice flying jet. DO NOT set the CG at the recommended 190-210mm located here: http://www.skymasterjet.com/image2/f16.18.jpg. You will have an uncontrollable aircraft on your hands. I initially set my CG at 165 mm which was way tail heavy. I now have mine set at 140mm and it flies very well both upright and just a touch of down inverted. The elevator is set at 40mm both up and down and the ailerons are set at 15mm up and down. The rudder is set at 25mm left and right. I let Skymaster-USA know about the CG listed on the website several weeks ago but it has not been corrected. I also sent an e-mail to Skymaster as well. So far I have heard nothing. Shoot me a PM with any more questions.
Maddogg
Sorry, didn't see you posted your answer
09-18-2009 | 08:10 AM
#83
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From: BarranquillaAtlantico, COLOMBIA
RE: SM F-16 1/8 settings
ORIGINAL: erbroens
Yes, the F-16 was the first combat jet in the world with negative static stability built in corrected by gyros and a computer and with a fly by wire system.. all this for making this plane extremely agile.
Of course, the computer of this airplane has a set of "flight rules" that takes data from its sensors (airspeed, rotational, acceleration,air density, etc) for stabilizing it. A simple sense rate gyro like we have available wouldn´t work as well as we need.
Just to see how complex is this, take a look in this video of a test flight of a F-16 with a assimetric ordenance issue to be resolved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv9YC-gaNYo
Yes, the F-16 was the first combat jet in the world with negative static stability built in corrected by gyros and a computer and with a fly by wire system.. all this for making this plane extremely agile.
Of course, the computer of this airplane has a set of "flight rules" that takes data from its sensors (airspeed, rotational, acceleration,air density, etc) for stabilizing it. A simple sense rate gyro like we have available wouldn´t work as well as we need.
Just to see how complex is this, take a look in this video of a test flight of a F-16 with a assimetric ordenance issue to be resolved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv9YC-gaNYo
Watch this:
http://www.aerosoft2.de/downloads/f1...l_F16_Engl.pdf
Page 12 of 50 "Relaxed Stability"
At Mach 1.0, the lift will be at the same point of C.G. Above Mach 1.0, the lift will be behid C.G. This means that F-16 is aerodynamically stable above Mach 1.0
Below Mach 1.0, the F-16is aerodynamically unstable.
09-18-2009 | 01:23 PM
#84
RE: SM F-16 1/8 settings
Yes, the center of pressure goes forward as the airplane slows down. That´s why I use to fine tune the center of gravity observing how the airplane handles at landing. If the plane´s feels stable and you still have pitch control authority the CG is at the perfect position.
Also full size supersonic planes like the Concorde used to pump around fuel in the tanks for obtaining the optimal CG for landing and flying.. But I guess that someone here who have flown it may chim in and give a better explanation of this process.
Also full size supersonic planes like the Concorde used to pump around fuel in the tanks for obtaining the optimal CG for landing and flying.. But I guess that someone here who have flown it may chim in and give a better explanation of this process.
