vsilva

Hi to all,

After several contacts with Fliton, since November last year as you know, and with my problem of weight unsolved, I realize that Fliton is not the best choice when you want to compete with the best, so I will do the same that other pilots already have done - given up on Fliton.
As advice do not try com compete with Fliton models, someday you will need their help and no one will be on the other side of the line.
I'm not asking for sponsorship but support to solve conception problems that prevent me to compete at a higher level.
I've canceled my participation on this year F3A Championship, because of excess of weight in ELEMENT 170. This year the World Championship is here in Portugal, and so Fliton could have free advertising during all the event, but Fliton is not good enough to even think of that.
So if you want to be a professional or try to be one, get real and forget Fliton - try to find a full cycle team and not just a supplier.

BBpattern

Hi all,
Here a link to the maiden of my Element 170. A week ago I crashed the plane and broke it in two parts. Thanks to my club mates, who fixed the damage within 1 day. In competition I got the second place. Not bad for a Fliton production ) Anyway, I think they make nice planes. The Element flies outstanding and with ease. Almost no coupling. Well, if you want to spend lots of dollars, you get a better flying plane, but with most planes, the main reason why it does not fly very well is the pilot himself. We all still have a long way to go. Isn't it Just copy the link into your browser to get it work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qirB8IjGmuU

huison2005

Seems like very quite .......... any news from Filton lately ..?? Are they still selling the ELEMENT170 "light" version ...??
Or they just stop selling it .........??[&o][&o]

Zoli

C... where did you get the Bolly gear, and exactly what did you order? Turns out the stock gear is pretty week, mine failed after one soft landing.

I'm running a glow setup with 18 x 8 prop, and could use a little more clearance anyway. I like the model and thanks for posting the build thread, it was very helpful.

jP

Zoli

Dale,

Can you clue me in on exactly what gear you ordered from Airborne? I'm running a glow setup with 18 x 8 prop, and could use a little more clearance anyway.

I recently finished my Element (if anyone is interested I will post pix) and total weight is 4875g (10.75 lb) with an OS 160 (2S), and 170g (6 oz) of lead in the nose for balance. The drawbacks for me have been adding the extra weight, and not being able to mount the 16 oz fuel tank over the CG. If I put the tank over the CG, I get too much head and cannot regulate the siphoning. So I put the tank just ahead of the wing, which helped my CG problem, but creates a varying CG throughout flight. If I can get the weight out of the nose, I could get really light!

As far as flying goes, I only have 1 flight, but it's very promising. I am curious to know excatly where (relative to the leading edge at the fuse) everyone is running with CG and exactly what incidence the stabs are at. My CG is at 16 cm without fuel... I need to check it with a full tank, but it felt a bit nose heavy when I flew it (and it did feel good there).

I am also having difficulty establishing a reference line to measure the stabs, that is, where is the true thrust line? I believe I am close to zero or slightly positive on the stab (I know that I am at 0.25 degress negative to the wing).

Thanks in advance for your help, jP

PS... I haven't had any contact with Fliton directly, but Advantage has stood behind the product and I am extremely happy with the "bang for my buck". In my opinion, this is a heck of an airplane for the price.

AmericanSpectre505

zoli,

You can add a 3 oz header tank in front of the main tank to move your main tank over the wing tube,....you should be able to remove some of the lead from the nose. The tail should stay at zero and you will more than likely need to shim the wing a bit for + incidence. If it's flying decent where it is,..work on your CG first before anything else. The gear, order the tallest gear they offer 6.5 inches I think,..Northeastern Aerodynamics also sells some nice gear also. The Element likes to fly with a forward CG the best. The reference line,..use the side fairings or dimples on the cowl sides,..that should get you close.


Bill Holsten

Advantage Hobby Fliton Field Rep/Custom Airframes Of America/Dragon Fire Customs/Duralite/Guardian America.

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Bolly went out of business. It would be a miracle for you to find the right ones. You need the Bolly Long gear. Not the Electric gear. The electric gear barely worked on mine. The "long" gear are the longest they have.

Chris

grotto2

My Feedback: (2)

I've been finding the same thing, Chris. Using the Bolly Electric gear, if I don't make a perfect landing it will likely cost me a prop. Graph Tech RC is making a clone of the Bolly 'Long' and I ordered a set of these to try.
-Ron

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

That's good news. I miss Bolly already. Let us know how they look. I don't have my Element anymore, but I wouldn't mind keeping some good long gear in stock.

The Electric may work though for a glow bird Zoli. Not sure though.

Chris

Zoli

Bill,

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

I flew it several times last night, adjusted the stab very close to zero (neutral ele trim) and it is flying very, very well. My CG must be further back that what most guys are running as I do have a bit of rud-ele coupling to the belly. Nothing that I can't live with so I'm status quo on the CG for the time being. As far as moving the tank/weight aft... I'm afraid that will only make things worse, so I think I'll keep things as they are unless I start to notice significant changes during flight as the tank empties out.

I ordered another set of stock gear from Advantage (nice folks)... I'm hoping that after talking to Fliton, they'll provide it at no cost (actually I'd settle for a 50/50 slit since I think it was defective to begin with). It didn't actually fail on the landing, it broke while sitting on the pit bench (there were obvious flaws in the fabrication)! I actually figured out a way to fix the gear... it won't last forever, but it got me back in the air until replacement arrives. If anyone is interested, I can clue you in on what I did.

I've also been in touch with graph-tech and they have provided a recommendation as follows:
http://www.graphtechrcshop.com/produ...&productId=236)

I want to see what others are using before I order it... that way I'll have a spare set of gear.

Here is the run down after 4 flights (still have work to do):

Flying weight is exactly 10.75 lb (with 6 oz in the nose, and extra glue/screws in the gear).
Dry CG is 16 cm (from leading edge at fuse).
Thrust to weight is good with OS160… even at Denver altitude (still working out the kinks with the Perry pump).
Tweaked the stab incidence more negative (probably close to zero) so that elevator is neutral.
Needed slightly more aileron differential than I started with, but it’s close.
Takes very little rudder on edge (or ele inverted).
Very little rud-ele coupling, both L & R push slightly to belly.
Did not detect any rud-ail coupling as yet.
Need to work on up & down lines… not seeing a lot on the ele, jury is out on rudder.
Easy, smooth stall turns with CG where it is.

It's a keeper, I won't be selling this one!

jP (Zoli)

Zoli

Ron,

Graph-tech recommended the following:

http://www.graphtechrcshop.com/produ...&productId=236

If that link doesn't take you directly to the product, it is:

#270 F3A Pattern (Long) Main Landing Gear

Is this what you ordered or something else?

Thanks,

jP (Zoli)

vsilva

I built the landing gear for my plane...




http://cid-49efb7abbb2c3ea3.skydrive...mo/F3A%20Build

AmericanSpectre505

Zoli,


Ahhh,...anytime man,..your welcome. If you are have issues with excessive fuel drip from the carb there is a easy fix for that.

Best of luck and happy flying!


Bill Holsten

Advantage Hobby & Fliton RC/Duralite Batteries/Guardian America/Custom Airframes of America.

Zoli

Bill,

You have me intrigued about solving the fuel drip problem, what do you suggest?

I've done header tanks in the past, but if the system is sealed, you still end up with the same head pressure. In this case it is almost 4" if I mount the tank (16 oz DuBro) over the wing and use a standard vent.

I've thought about uniflow, but I'd still end up with over 1.6" of head (i.e. moving the vent to the bottom of the tank), which with the perry pump "may" be ok.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,

jP

grotto2

My Feedback: (2)

Zoli-
That's exactly the one I ordered. I'll let you know how it works out.
-Ron

grotto2

My Feedback: (2)

Well, the gear arrived from GraphTech, and I must say that they are certainly are a beautiful piece of work.

I got them installed (sans wheelpants) last night. They will be giving me about an inch and a half more ground clearance and appear to be a little stiffer than the Bolly Electric struts I removed. Just what I need.

Well worth the price, I'm thinking.

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Did you weigh them?

Chris

grotto2

My Feedback: (2)

I didn't happen to do that, Chris.
I expect to have them off again to add the pants later this week, so I'll check then. Going by feel, though, they seem close to the same weight as the others.
-Ron

SanJoseDale

Zoli, The part number for the gear I used is :

Carbon Fiber Landing Gear PR8200158

From Airborne-Models in Livermore CA

Dale

AmericanSpectre505

Hey Zoli,

To fix that problem you place a T fitting between the needle valve and the carb. Run a line from there and place another T in-line with the clunk line to the engine. What happens is the extra fuel gets recycled through the line and the drip goes away. The carb will only take the amount of fuel it wants.

There is a nice diagram of it on perry pumps web page. I have never had to do this with any of my older pumps,...the new perry pumps I have just recently done with a buudy of mine and it works great!


Glad to hear the plane is working for you! I wish they would have listened to me and took the wood version and made a two piece wing version out of it,...easy to do! I am getting ready to do it to my 170 ARF version here soon as an experiment. The planes both one piece wing and my two piece wood version will be field demos for anyone to try out or fly.


Best Regards,

Bill Holsten

Advantage Hobby & Fliton RC Field Rep./Custom Airframes of America/Dragon Fire Customs/Duralite Batteries/Guardian America.

grotto2

My Feedback: (2)

Okay, these are the numbers I got for the landing gear:

Bolly Electric 2.3 oz.
GraphTech F3A Long 2.6 oz.

Both gear were cut in half and drilled for the same mounting bolts and axles. One carbon strut of each type was weighed. I used a dollar handheld postal balance so the error is maybe +/- 0.1 oz.

For calculation purposes, double the number for left and right struts. Therefore, expect an increase of about 0.6 oz. if changing from the Bolly Electric to GraphTech F3A Long gear.

-Ron

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Thanks Ron!

Chris

Zoli

Ron... one last thing. You said you had about 1-1/2" of clearance with the Graph-tech... what size prop are you running?

Thanks, Zoli

PS... I ordered a second set of stock gear from Advantage. The left strut had the same inherent defect... not solid at the upper shoulder where the mounting tabs are. I was able to effect a repair before installing it, but it is weaker that the right strut. I will eventually end up the the Graph-tech.

Zoli

Bill, thanks for all the ideas.

I've been flying the heck out the plane and really like it. The plane is flying great, and other than still experimenting with the CG and prop combinations, it's mostly trimmed out. As I mentioned earlier, its definately a keeper and has many fine attributes.

I have the tank up front and no drips, but have to deal with an ever changing CG. It's not bad enough to change for now, but eventually I'll move the tank back and try the bypass line you suggested.

You may recall that earlier I complained a bit about a factory defect with the left landing gear strut. The defect was replicated with the second set I purchased from Advantage. That being that the left strut has a void (where it should be solid) up at the shoulder where it transitions to the mounting tab. The net result is premature failure under the slightest load. I injected epoxy in that end of the strut and reinforced the shoulders with 4-40 bolts/lock nuts (and it works!) However, the exercise convinced me that the strut is truly a factory defect... again, I'm hoping Advantage will step up and pay for the gear (I'd settle for half anyway). Surely, you've heard of others that have had this problem, I'd be very surprised if you haven't.

Last thing, I spun a wheel off on take off and ground up a wheel pant on landing. Do you know if stock replacements are available... I didn't see them at Advantage?

Thanks very much, Zoli

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Email Alex for parts. I'm sure he either has them, or can get them.

Chris