philipat

I'd like to upgrade the motors in my HL tanks. I plan to go with metal gear boxes, tracks, etc; so, I want the additional torque. I've seen some posts about using "long can 400s" and Speed400s (usually Graupners). I was doing some looking online and also found some Speed480s. I think that the stock motors are 380s.

I also read in some past posts that the biggest concern with bigger motors is the amperage draw that cooks the boards. I think someone said that they could only handle 3-4 amps. But, according to the hobby lobby website, the speed400s and the long cans draw between 7 and 10 amps. The speed480s are above 10 so they're out. But, what is the difference between the speed400s and the long cans?

Thanks.
Philip

pcsguy88

Not sure, but I added the Graupner 7.2v Spd 400's this week and would consider this upgrade as critical if you have metal tracks. My Bulldog runs full metal now better than it ran standard with plastic tracks. No hesitation at all in the grass and it will move at any speed I choose. Only lack of traction will stop the Dog now. Speed increase was also appreciated. Found them [link=http://www.srbatteries.com/efmotor.htm]here[/link] for $26 shipped. Took 4 days to get them in Kansas.

thomasjohnmurphy

did you get the 7.2v motors

swathdiver

If you want torque go with the gearboxes instead. They'll give you much more torque then a motor upgrade will.

If you've read my Tiger 211 build, you'll remember that I'm using 480 motors with the 3-1 gearboxes with El Mod. I know some guys over at Panzerkettan forum who use them with stock HL boards and they're skirting the line. The 3-1 gearbox does the work so the motors don't draw so many amps.

You'll be fine with 7.2v Graupner Speed400s as long as you keep the board cool. It's also essential to make sure the gearboxes and motors are broken in to ensure the least driveline resistance possible. Even then it's still possible to blow the HL board but if you've seen my YouTube videos with the Walker BullDog, you know that they're a great addition!

WhiteWolf McBride

My Feedback: (3)

pcsguy:

I've got a question about this bulldog... is it the same one thats apparently 'eating' metal gearboxes? http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8101158/tm.htm)

If it is, you're found your problem, you're over-powering the thing. If the bushings are as soft as you say, they are overheating and deforming, and consequently making your gears self-destruct.

Just an observation at seeing your ID on two Bulldog posts...

pcsguy88

Naw, the first gearbox had stock motors and both lasted about 4hrs. I'm thinking the track on that side might be tight, causing unwanted stress on the box. I hope to discover the root cause, but it's safe to say the motors didn't do it. I swapped motors 2hrs into the 2nd box and already noticed a pile of bushing dust built up from the stock motor.

WhiteWolf McBride

My Feedback: (3)

Well...

Step 1: Stop mucking about with the modded motors until you get the gear problem fixed, or you'll never know if its the gearboxes or the motors.

Its always harder to fix one thing when your changing one or more ~other~ things at the same time. Right guys?

pcsguy88

I'll rebuild a gearbox, switch tracks to opposite sides and see if I can chew up the other gearbox. If I do, then the tight track is the culprit. The motors just accelerate the process if something is misalligned.

Wolf, do you have any ideas for the first gearbox failing in the exact same place in the exact same period of time with nothing but stock parts?

WhiteWolf McBride

My Feedback: (3)

Nope.

But putting a more powerful motor sure isn't helping, now is it?

Its your money you're throwing away, so have at it. Don't mind me pointing out the obvious.

pcsguy88

Wolf, you are right to assume the motors are not helping the problem and are infact accelerating the problem, but to me, if I can't fix it with the motors, I can't fix it at all. I am a career tech and understand basic troubleshooting priciples and made a point to walk everyone step by step thru my personal situation so I could receive educated advice(which I did). I simply answered philipat's question in his thread about upgrading motors as I was taught by Swath's own experiences. If you want to bash me and blame my motors, that's ok, but please take it back to my troubleshooting thread and stop trying to scare others from performing a well proven, straight forward mod. For all we know, my hull could be deformed just enough to cause extra stress on the bottom gearbox. Like in Iron Man, how can you possibly know where the weak points are if you don't press on until it fails/freezes? I appologize to everyone who has wasted their time reading this response.

philipat

James, I've read your threads. Seems that the only tanks with the 480s are those with the El-Mod because the El-Mod can handle the higher amperage draw, right? I plan to cool the board and get some metal gear boxes. RC Command's steel gear boxes have piqued my interest for the Bulldog. I'm considering a set of Willy's Impact boxes for my PzIII (slow it down a little and keep the torque). So, I don't want to discount the vital role of the gearboxes in getting the torque.

I guess I'm still confused, though, about the difference between the "long cans" and the speed400s.

Panther G

Keep in mind philipat that Willy's Impact gearboxes are not stock by any means. he totally rebuilds and aligns them and upgrades them. they are not off the shelf items. and he is not dealling with Impact directly any more. i think our new freinds problem has to do with an alignment problem with the gear boxes them selves. I have seen Brand New boxes with the metal frames not even close too being square so thats a problem right there. If the boxes them selves aren't aligned then the gears and bushings dont stand a chance.
a brand new set i just bought had this problem. i literally had to put them in a vise to get the box it self square so check that first. Then see if when they are installed in the tank that the boxes and sprockets are in a straight line with the track and hull. it's a start.

Panther G

The long cans motors are actually 480 motors. you will rarely see them in an HL tank due too the load on the boards. More so on the heavily modified and cooled boards but not in a stock tank. The Long cans are a HIGH SPEED motor. That is why they are used in the gear rduction gearboxes. Proper speed and tons of torque.

swathdiver

There are a couple of Brits who use the 480s with homemade 3-1 gearboxes and Heng Long boards. It can be done, I've posted the amperage draw before. There are high and low speed 480s. However, for your application, the Speed400s are the only way to go. Forget about the 480s unless you change out the electronics.

philipat

Cool, thanks guys.

Panther G...I didn't realize that Willy completely rebuilt the Impact gear boxes. I thought that they were nearly bullet-proof as is and he just tweaked them a little bit. Good to know.