NCIS

Which product do you use and what method for applying glass cloth to your Warbird? Please explain in detail how you do it and what other products you use.

Gibbs

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

Well....I'll go first, 2 brushed coates of 100% thinned Envirotex, which is a 2-Part epoxy type base. I don't go for the credit card, squeegie, honey spread on mess. Save yourself and thin it and brush it on in thin coats. Much easier and cleaner to apply in my opinion. After this is dry, wet sand and come back with 2 coats of Minwax Polycrylic. Wet sand after the second dry coat and ready to prime (I don't use filling primer, so I fill with resins).

Jeff

zipnz1

My Feedback: (2)

gibbs- i agree with jeff, put it on thin. i like to use epoxy and the brand is not too important, just use 30 min hardener. i use denatured alcohol and thin the epoxy (about 25% alcohol).
i just brush it on the cloth with a 2" brush. with the epoxy thined it soaks into the wood and gives it a good hard shell. when applied right it has a satin like sheen. ( not glossy wet).
after it starts to set up i brush on a second coat. sand and prime.

good luck,
mike

Check6

My Feedback: (427)

I use the same process that Jeff uses. Got this originally from Dan Parsons. Only difference is the second coat of resin is a little thicker. When totally dry I use a power palm sander with 80 grit paper to knock down the resin, followed by 220 wet sanded. Prime and paint, works great.
I also use Envirotex Light epoxy.
Thanks,
Fred

77chickenhawk

I make sure all surfaces are free of gapps and dings and dents with EVERCOUT POLYESTER CATYLISED PUTTY. i CUT THE CLOTH TO A INCH OR SO LARGER THAN THE SURFACE IM APPLYING. I LAY THE CLOTH ON THE SURFACE AND START AT ONE SIDE . I USE A GOOD BRAND FIBERGLASS POLYESTER RESIN, AND POUR A I LONG PUDDLE AND THEN I USE A BONDO SPREDER AND SQUEGY THE STUFF NICE AND SMOOTHLY TO THE OTHER SIDE, ADDING MORE AS I GO ALONG. COMES OUT LIKE GLASS..LOL... AND STRONG AND THE CLOTH LAYS OUT NICE AND STRAIGHT

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

I use the Z-poxy finishing resin. I apply a thin coat of un-thinned after the final sanding with 320 (plus a vacuuming and tacking of the sanding dust). I let it set for about 10-12 minutes and then apply the cloth (I use 3/4 oz for almost everything). I keep an alcohol-soaked rag handy, and work the bubbles out from the center of the cloth with my fingers, which also works the resin through the cloth. The rag is to keep my hands clean. I watch what's left in the mixing pot, it will begin to set before what is on the model. I mix another batch as soon as I finish one, and overlap the applications by 1/4 to 1/2 inch (cloth) When all is set, sand smooth without cutting into the cloth, and apply another coat of resin, thinned about 25%. Sand again to smooth any high spots, then fine sand with 400 or finer (wet/dry, I like wet). Ready to tape the panel lines or prime and finish, whatever.

G-Pete

Epoxy is too heavy and too messy.

Brushing lacquer is the way to go. 80% vaporizes and you can use 0.58 oz cloth. A full sheeted warbird don't need "extra strengths" from the covering. It' all the structure. No sanding beween coats and the final finish is 95% ready for painting. If you need weight, put it there where do you needed but not on the covering...

DaddySam

My Feedback: (9)

I use Envirotex Lite with the Dan Parsons method. On smaller areas I'll use Zap finishing resin. The Parsons method works so well I can't see possibly damaging something by trying something different!
sam

NCIS

I alway thin my resin so it is like water and then I use a 1 1/2" brush to brush it on. I don't like the squeegie idea either. I don't overude it with the resin. If there is still weave showing I have used thinned Spot and glazing putty to a milky consistancy and brush it on. Then I sand it smooth. When it's done almost all of it is gone except what is fill ing the weave. I clean the plane with a shop vac and then use a tack rag. After that it is usually ready to prime. I just never heard of Envirotex poducts. Does anybody that voted for the West Systems have any comments? I see some people voted for it but said nothing. I'll keep listening for more good advice.

Thanks to all,

Gibbs

Brad330l

My Feedback: (1)

I am using West Systems unthinned with the squeegy method on my Spitfire. I have only glassed three other models and I used a different product on those and dabbed the resin on with a 1/2" brush. The way I am doing it now has a quite satisfactory finish for my level of modelling. After the initial first fixing coat I am lightly sanding (all that is needed) applying a second coat mixed with micro balloons (very thin layer) sanding and spraying with primer/filler. My tail plane worked out very nice doing this. It is light, smooth and easy.

If I had easy access to other systems I would try them but I am pretty isolated so work with what I have. Also we dont get the same brands over here as you guys and working out what you are actually using can be a head strain.

Cheers,

Brad

lbrande

My Feedback: (16)

I've used the Lacquer method and West Systems, and found that I prefer using West Systems more. With the Lacquer method, I would seal the wood using 3 coats, separated by 1 day per coat. I would then apply the .75oz cloth with the lacquer, using 7 coats, and let the lacquer dry for 7 days. Light sanding smooth and ready for primer with some filler

With the west systems, just mix and add onto the cloth, using 2-3 coats till smooth.

Doolittleraider

My Feedback: (72)

Hey Jeff

Is this the stuff your talking about
http://www.eti-usa.com/consum/envtex/envlite.htm

what do you thin it with? By 100% (half of each)? I have always done the zpoxy resin with .75 cloth two coats with the credit card and then prime. But I have found the primming to be a never ending process of bondo and primer filling imperfections and its the most tedious part of painting. Does your method help reduce that?
What weight cloth do you use and what primer? I have been using shake can automotive filler primer? Lastly any incapatability issues on the minwax and top coat paints?
Thanks Jeff its always fun to get those master building tips off you....

Peter

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

Yes, Peter, that is the stuff I use... Envirotex Lite. Not sure I qaulify for much over a hack, but I appreciate the words. I use mostly .55 oz. cloth. I typically use, as Fred does, denatured alcohol to thin the resin to just shy of a water consistency and brush it on. I have never had any compatibility issues applying the Minwax over the Envirotex. I have planes up to 10 years old with this stuff. The one thing I learned about Z-poxy, is that, it seems to never fully cure, and continues to cure over time. After a few years, I would begin to see glass weave. I attributed this to the eopxy continuing to cure and shrink out of the glass cloth. I use Wal-MArt primer at $1.12 a can with good results, but I do like the Duplicolor filling primer.

Jeff

Doolittleraider

My Feedback: (72)

Jeff thanks for the info. I may have to try that I my next plane..........we'll see if I spend less time on the many rounds of bondo and primer filling imperfections

Peter

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

One of the nice things about Envirotex, is that, it is self gassing, and the resin tends to float to the top, getting a good fill on .55 oz. cloth. I have found .75 oz. cloth and greater to require at least 3 Envirotex coats. I use almost no bondo type filler on the outer (top) surface. Also, when people learn that Envirotex is about 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of Z-poxy, there is no need to go back. The 2 16 oz. bottles of Envirotex sells here for about $19
Jeff

Tony Gag Jr.

My Feedback: (124)

How does Envirotex sand?

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

Tony, it sands very easily. I usually hit it with 100 grit to knock of the high dust bubbles and then wetsand with 220 wet. I am in the process of glassing a Yellow Spitfire wing, for a friend, now.

Jeff

NCIS

I am happy you posted that site for the Envirotex products. But I thought at first you were referring to the Sutter Homes wine. I use that stuff every night after working on my planes. It sure makes thing smooth for me then. Keep the votes comming. I just want to see which one wins and then I'll decide.

Barry

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

Envirotex in action on a yellow spitfire wing I am doing for a friend. I used 5 oz. cloth out past the aileron inner edge (you can see the darker shade 1/2 way acgross the servo pocket. After dry, I hit it with an orbital sander to smooth out. I then feathered in the edge of the 5 oz. cloth with Red Devil one time spackle....SUPER LIGHT WEIGHT STUFF...AND CHEAP! I then cam back from tip to tip with .55 oz. cloth. After this dries, one more thinned coat of Envirotex that will be wet sanded before a couple of coats of Minwax Polycrylic is applied.

Jeff

Flak

My Feedback: (1)

Z-Poxy finishing resin mixed with denatured alcohol and 3/4 oz glass cloth. Once the surface is ready, lay down the cloth then paint on the rezin/alcohol ( 40/60 ) mixture with a cheap throw away brush. Allow to dry and add a second coat. Lightly wet sand with fine emery cloth to as smooth as preferred. Prime, wet sand, reprime, lightly wet sand, clean off and paint.

I'm currently glassing my 1/5th Pica P-40 and she is looking soooooo sexxxxxxxyyy!!!

Best Regards,
Flak

wingspar

My Feedback: (3)

I never thin epoxy as just 5% thinning can reduce it's strengh by nearly 50%!!! The trick is to heat it to about 115 degree to make it thin so it flows and penatrates well. I've been using System 3 epoxy available at many marine stores but West System is also excellent but use the slow hardener. I also just apply one coat and use a primer/filler for the fill coat. Also try to apply the epoxy when the outside temp is starting to drop to reduce bubbles.

I also build kayaks and here is one I did last year.

Dave

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

I understand what you are saying wingspar, but in the case of glassing, we do not need any strength in the epoxy. We are just using it as a base coat for finsihing. Many of us do not have the facilities for the 2 part filling primers (me), so I rely on mostly resins to fill the weave. I use the T-88 glue as well in a lot of my building. Great epoxy for homebuilts. Nice Kayak!

Jeff

cwcope

Dan Parson's method using Klass Kote ( I formerly used K&B, then Hobby Poxy) clear epoxy paint and satin catalyst and my remaining stash of Parson's cloth. Anybody know what I should use for cloth when I run out of Dan's cloth? I believe Parson's cloth was .6 ounce per square yard. Incidentally, I have tried various substitutes for two-part clear epoxy paint, including other two part "finishing resins", as well as water-based urethane from home improvement store. These methods did not work for me for various reasons. I found that the water based urethanes warped the underlying balsa sheeting. My experience with various two-part finishing resins has been that they do not apply as smoothly and they are harder to sand as compared to two-part clear epoxy paint. Just my 2 cents. I think I will try Sig finishing resin on my next project, per Dave Platt's recommendation.

Charles

wingspar

My Feedback: (3)

Jeff, Thats one of the big advantages of glassing the wing with epoxy as it will increase it's strength. I don't use it for a fill coat because the epoxy is very hard and you need a power sander to knock it down. I also don't use a two part primer. Just Duplicolor primer/filler that I get a Walmart that fills the weave very well after the third coat.

Dave

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

Dave, I do use the Duplicolor filler (rattlecan) good stuff.

Jeff