FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
03-23-2009, 12:05 AM
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FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jQZ1zNmGEc APPARENTLY WITH WIND IF THE BIG FACTOR IN THE CRASH SINCE AT THE TIME OF THE ACCIDENT IT WAS GUSTING 51KTS (KNOTS) WHEN THEY WERE TRYING TO LAND ... MAY THE CREW REST IN PEACE AND MY HEART GOES TO THEIR FAMILIES ............................
03-23-2009, 12:11 AM
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RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
that nose wheel first landing and bounce didn't help things......amazing how fast it happened...
Condolences to the crew's families...............
Condolences to the crew's families...............
03-23-2009, 12:11 AM
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RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dwdopkrLZg HERE IS ANOTHER FROM FOX NEWS ...
03-23-2009, 07:32 AM
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RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
Too bad the pilot didn't have many years of modeling experience...might have helped save the day...how many times have we all gone through a landing just like this?
Lee
Lee
03-23-2009, 07:56 AM
#6
RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
Sadly, this is the 2nd time FedEX has done this with an MD-11. Years ago, they did the exact same thing landing in EWR...flipped upside down and burned to a crisp...but in that case everyone survived.
A very sad day indeed for all of the families involved, since their loved ones are never going to return home again.
Beave
A very sad day indeed for all of the families involved, since their loved ones are never going to return home again.
Beave
03-23-2009, 09:08 AM
#7
RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
Wow, deja vue - looks like this exact same scenario has happened at least three times before:
[link=http://www.airlinesafety.com/faq/faq9.htm]http://www.airlinesafety.com/faq/faq9.htm[/link]
Relaxed longitudinal stability (i.e., an aft CG) along with a smaller horizontal tail for fuel economy causing the hard touchdowns and bouncing, coupled with landing gear and wing box that might not be strong enough causing the wing seperation...
Bob
[link=http://www.airlinesafety.com/faq/faq9.htm]http://www.airlinesafety.com/faq/faq9.htm[/link]
Relaxed longitudinal stability (i.e., an aft CG) along with a smaller horizontal tail for fuel economy causing the hard touchdowns and bouncing, coupled with landing gear and wing box that might not be strong enough causing the wing seperation...
Bob
03-23-2009, 09:35 AM
#9
RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
Too bad the pilot didn't have many years of modeling experience...might have helped save the day...how many times have we all gone through a landing just like this?
Lee
Lee
It is human nature to begin the guessing games, but I am begging you not to. There are multiple and complex issues which almost certainly were major contributors to the crash, and I assure you that exactly none of them fall within the scope of this forum for any meaningful discussion. I assure you also that 99% of the supposedly "expert" speculation that you will see and hear in the news media and elsewhere is PURE BS. The investigation process is agonizingly slow and the temptation to fill the information void for you all , even for me, is a very strong one. PLEASE do not give in to the urge. Respect the process, the perished crew, their families, friends, and fellow workers at FedEx.
I thank you all for your prayers and support for the families and friends of the crew.
Respectfully, Don Ray.
(Fedex A300 Capt.)
03-23-2009, 12:46 PM
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RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
In the FOX video it looks like the nose first strike was the second bounce...
03-23-2009, 04:43 PM
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RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
Hear, hear, Don. MY deepest sympathy to the families of your MD11 crew members at NRT and, indeed, to all in Fedex's flight ops. because I know it hurts you ALL, badly.
Regards,
David Gladwin.
Regards,
David Gladwin.
03-23-2009, 09:11 PM
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RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
ORIGINAL: highhorse
Two of my fellow aviators are dead, gentlemen.
It is human nature to begin the guessing games, but I am begging you not to. There are multiple and complex issues which almost certainly were major contributors to the crash, and I assure you that exactly none of them fall within the scope of this forum for any meaningful discussion. I assure you also that 99% of the supposedly "expert" speculation that you will see and hear in the news media and elsewhere is PURE BS. The investigation process is agonizingly slow and the temptation to fill the information void for you all , even for me, is a very strong one. PLEASE do not give in to the urge. Respect the process, the perished crew, their families, friends, and fellow workers at FedEx.
I thank you all for your prayers and support for the families and friends of the crew.
Respectfully, Don Ray.
(Fedex A300 Capt.)
Too bad the pilot didn't have many years of modeling experience...might have helped save the day...how many times have we all gone through a landing just like this?
Lee
Lee
It is human nature to begin the guessing games, but I am begging you not to. There are multiple and complex issues which almost certainly were major contributors to the crash, and I assure you that exactly none of them fall within the scope of this forum for any meaningful discussion. I assure you also that 99% of the supposedly "expert" speculation that you will see and hear in the news media and elsewhere is PURE BS. The investigation process is agonizingly slow and the temptation to fill the information void for you all , even for me, is a very strong one. PLEASE do not give in to the urge. Respect the process, the perished crew, their families, friends, and fellow workers at FedEx.
I thank you all for your prayers and support for the families and friends of the crew.
Respectfully, Don Ray.
(Fedex A300 Capt.)
Dramatic video shows the landing that led to the fiery crash of a Fed Ex MD-11 cargo jet a few hours ago at Tokyo's Narita Airport. The video shows what appears to be a hard, bounced landing. Shortly after the bounce, the nose of the aircraft appears lower than the tail as the aircraft contacts the runway a second time. Moments later, huge flames erupt destroying the aircraft. Pilot Kevin Kyle Mosley and copilot Anthony Stephen Pino were killed.
Winds were reportedly high at the time, so it's hard to know for sure whether...
the sequence shown is totally a result of actions of the pilot, or whether the winds contributed to the accident. However, the sequence seems to show a classic error associated with bounced landings.
Handling a Bounced Landing
According to the FAA's Airplane Flying Handbook, "The corrective action for a bounce is the same as for ballooning and similarly depends on its severity. When it is very slight and there is no extreme change in the airplane’s pitch attitude, a follow-up landing may be executed by applying sufficient power to cushion the subsequent touchdown, and smoothly adjusting the pitch to the proper touchdown attitude.
"When a bounce is severe, the safest procedure is to EXECUTE A GO-AROUND IMMEDIATELY. No attempt to salvage the landing should be made. Full power should be applied while simultaneously maintaining directional control, and lowering the nose to a safe climb attitude. The go-around procedure should be continued even though the airplane may descend and another bounce may be encountered. It would be extremely foolish to attempt a landing from a bad bounce since airspeed diminishes very rapidly in the nose-high attitude, and a stall may occur before a subsequent touchdown could be made."
A few years ago, one of the local flying clubs where I teach analyzed their incidents and concluded that fully 70% of them would have been avoided had the pilot initiated a timely go-around. CFIs were directed to instruct clients to initiate a go around whenever they had a bad landing, rather than try to salvage every landing. After this change, the number of incidents dropped off sharply.
The discussion led me to re-examine how I teach landings. I realized that I too had fallen into the trap of teaching pilots how to salvage most bad landings. Yet teaching a go around as a primary response to a botched landing can save bending a lot of metal.
Max Trescott 2008 CFI of the year...
Humm wonder where we’ve heard about go arounds…they work every time they are tried!
Lee
03-23-2009, 09:37 PM
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RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
ORIGINAL: Nightwalker
........and now back to our regularly scheduled program.........
........and now back to our regularly scheduled program.........
03-23-2009, 10:20 PM
#20
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RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
Thanks, bevar, not my friends, but just as important. My heart is heavy tonight for their loss.
ORIGINAL: bevar
Captain Kevin Kyle Mosley Age 54
First Officer Anthony Stephan Pino 49
Captain Kevin Kyle Mosley Age 54
First Officer Anthony Stephan Pino 49
ORIGINAL: warbird51
I have 2 friends who fly for FedEX. Have they released the names of the crew yet?
Wayne
I have 2 friends who fly for FedEX. Have they released the names of the crew yet?
Wayne
03-23-2009, 10:24 PM
#21
RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
I guess being the "2008 CFI of the year" makes you an expert in a 500,000# transport category jet when all you fly are Cessna 172s and Seminoles. Keeping it simple, but you just don't bounce, shove the throttles to the firewall and zoom zoom...away you go when flying a heavy jet. It just not work that way. What happened has happened at least 11 other times with MD-11s, and the airframe involved in today's crash had a previous "big bounce" landing back in 1994, but stayed intact on that occasion.
Imagine the engine response time of an old P-80 and now you see the problem.
Anyway, idiots like this guy come crawling out of the woodwork to tell everyone "how I would have done it" and it's a great disservice because in fact, he has no idea as to what he is talking about.
Beave
Imagine the engine response time of an old P-80 and now you see the problem.
Anyway, idiots like this guy come crawling out of the woodwork to tell everyone "how I would have done it" and it's a great disservice because in fact, he has no idea as to what he is talking about.
Beave
ORIGINAL: Silver182
Federal Express MD-11 Crash at Tokyo's Narita Airport
Dramatic video shows the landing that led to the fiery crash of a Fed Ex MD-11 cargo jet a few hours ago at Tokyo's Narita Airport. The video shows what appears to be a hard, bounced landing. Shortly after the bounce, the nose of the aircraft appears lower than the tail as the aircraft contacts the runway a second time. Moments later, huge flames erupt destroying the aircraft. Pilot Kevin Kyle Mosley and copilot Anthony Stephen Pino were killed.
Winds were reportedly high at the time, so it's hard to know for sure whether...
the sequence shown is totally a result of actions of the pilot, or whether the winds contributed to the accident. However, the sequence seems to show a classic error associated with bounced landings.
Handling a Bounced Landing
According to the FAA's Airplane Flying Handbook, "The corrective action for a bounce is the same as for ballooning and similarly depends on its severity. When it is very slight and there is no extreme change in the airplane’s pitch attitude, a follow-up landing may be executed by applying sufficient power to cushion the subsequent touchdown, and smoothly adjusting the pitch to the proper touchdown attitude.
"When a bounce is severe, the safest procedure is to EXECUTE A GO-AROUND IMMEDIATELY. No attempt to salvage the landing should be made. Full power should be applied while simultaneously maintaining directional control, and lowering the nose to a safe climb attitude. The go-around procedure should be continued even though the airplane may descend and another bounce may be encountered. It would be extremely foolish to attempt a landing from a bad bounce since airspeed diminishes very rapidly in the nose-high attitude, and a stall may occur before a subsequent touchdown could be made."
A few years ago, one of the local flying clubs where I teach analyzed their incidents and concluded that fully 70% of them would have been avoided had the pilot initiated a timely go-around. CFIs were directed to instruct clients to initiate a go around whenever they had a bad landing, rather than try to salvage every landing. After this change, the number of incidents dropped off sharply.
The discussion led me to re-examine how I teach landings. I realized that I too had fallen into the trap of teaching pilots how to salvage most bad landings. Yet teaching a go around as a primary response to a botched landing can save bending a lot of metal.
Max Trescott 2008 CFI of the year...
Humm wonder where we’ve heard about go arounds…they work every time they are tried!
Lee
Federal Express MD-11 Crash at Tokyo's Narita Airport
Dramatic video shows the landing that led to the fiery crash of a Fed Ex MD-11 cargo jet a few hours ago at Tokyo's Narita Airport. The video shows what appears to be a hard, bounced landing. Shortly after the bounce, the nose of the aircraft appears lower than the tail as the aircraft contacts the runway a second time. Moments later, huge flames erupt destroying the aircraft. Pilot Kevin Kyle Mosley and copilot Anthony Stephen Pino were killed.
Winds were reportedly high at the time, so it's hard to know for sure whether...
the sequence shown is totally a result of actions of the pilot, or whether the winds contributed to the accident. However, the sequence seems to show a classic error associated with bounced landings.
Handling a Bounced Landing
According to the FAA's Airplane Flying Handbook, "The corrective action for a bounce is the same as for ballooning and similarly depends on its severity. When it is very slight and there is no extreme change in the airplane’s pitch attitude, a follow-up landing may be executed by applying sufficient power to cushion the subsequent touchdown, and smoothly adjusting the pitch to the proper touchdown attitude.
"When a bounce is severe, the safest procedure is to EXECUTE A GO-AROUND IMMEDIATELY. No attempt to salvage the landing should be made. Full power should be applied while simultaneously maintaining directional control, and lowering the nose to a safe climb attitude. The go-around procedure should be continued even though the airplane may descend and another bounce may be encountered. It would be extremely foolish to attempt a landing from a bad bounce since airspeed diminishes very rapidly in the nose-high attitude, and a stall may occur before a subsequent touchdown could be made."
A few years ago, one of the local flying clubs where I teach analyzed their incidents and concluded that fully 70% of them would have been avoided had the pilot initiated a timely go-around. CFIs were directed to instruct clients to initiate a go around whenever they had a bad landing, rather than try to salvage every landing. After this change, the number of incidents dropped off sharply.
The discussion led me to re-examine how I teach landings. I realized that I too had fallen into the trap of teaching pilots how to salvage most bad landings. Yet teaching a go around as a primary response to a botched landing can save bending a lot of metal.
Max Trescott 2008 CFI of the year...
Humm wonder where we’ve heard about go arounds…they work every time they are tried!
Lee
03-23-2009, 10:33 PM
#22
RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
You are welcome. It is still a very sad day...
Beave
Beave
ORIGINAL: warbird51
Thanks, bevar, not my friends, but just as important. My heart is heavy tonight for their loss.
Thanks, bevar, not my friends, but just as important. My heart is heavy tonight for their loss.
ORIGINAL: bevar
Captain Kevin Kyle Mosley Age 54
First Officer Anthony Stephan Pino 49
Captain Kevin Kyle Mosley Age 54
First Officer Anthony Stephan Pino 49
ORIGINAL: warbird51
I have 2 friends who fly for FedEX. Have they released the names of the crew yet?
Wayne
I have 2 friends who fly for FedEX. Have they released the names of the crew yet?
Wayne
03-23-2009, 10:34 PM
#23
RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
Hey Beave, I consider Lee an incredible asset to RCU, and usually hang on every word he says about the radios we use for our models. I don't know whether anyone is right or wrong in this thread, but I do find it offensive to be so flippant to him.
FWIW, Lee is one of the good guys in my opinion.
FWIW, Lee is one of the good guys in my opinion.
03-23-2009, 11:21 PM
#25
RE: FEDEX MD-11 CRASH @ TOKYO (IN THE MORNING TOKYO TIME ) VIDEO ...
Sean,
I am talking about Max Trescott...the idiot who wrote the article...not Lee.
Beave
I am talking about Max Trescott...the idiot who wrote the article...not Lee.
Beave
ORIGINAL: seanreit
Hey Beave, I consider Lee an incredible asset to RCU, and usually hang on every word he says about the radios we use for our models. I don't know whether anyone is right or wrong in this thread, but I do find it offensive to be so flippant to him.
FWIW, Lee is one of the good guys in my opinion.
Hey Beave, I consider Lee an incredible asset to RCU, and usually hang on every word he says about the radios we use for our models. I don't know whether anyone is right or wrong in this thread, but I do find it offensive to be so flippant to him.
FWIW, Lee is one of the good guys in my opinion.