Hi,

I've been in the hobby for a humble 17 years now. In that time, I've come to understand the meaning of NEW IN BOX as one specific thing. I recently bought an engine on Ebay. It was a Moki 2.1 in which the seller put "NEW IN BOX" as the engine's condition. I was happy with the price until the engine showed up. It's used.

I go back and look at the listing, and sure enough......way at the bottom.....it says "bench run only once." When I contacted the seller, his position was "Too bad, so sad.." Upon inspection, it's clear that the only thing accurate in the original category of its readiness is that there is, in fact, a box. The engine has lots of tool marks. It's got rust on many of the steel parts. It's got carmelization and burnt oil (black) in the exhaust port. It's got RTV smeared all over the exhaust port. The carb barrel is stuck open. I didn't want to force it since I didn't want to break it. Still, the seller stands by his position that stating later in the ad that it had been bench run only once somehow absolves him of his lie when he listed it as NEW IN BOX.

In my experience, "LIKE New in Box" gets you looking for details. "Lightly Used" gets you looking for details. NEW IN BOX was all I needed to know about the engine.......or so I thought. I've been buying and selling for years. I have customers all over the world to whom I'd NEVER overstate the condition of an item. Doesn't NEW IN BOX mean what I think it means among honest brokers? What do you guys think?

As a long time Ebayer, both buying and selling, NIB means just that. Brand new. The box may have some shelf wear, but the object should be brand new.

I've got a Mag 91 mounted on a Bipe that I've not quite finished. If I were to take it off and put the engine back in the box, It woud be listed as Like New, Never run, but mounted once. What your seller did was wrong, and against Ebay rules. Give him a negitive feedback, If you payed by PayPal I think you have some leverage there also. Don't drop it.

Don

I looked up the auction and the only thing warning light I could see on the auction was the low number of feedbacks. Like I said above, file a complaint with PayPal and ask for a refund. It may take you a while, but ther is a good chance of getting at least something back. Good luck

Don

New in the box means New never used, In factory New condition and the box from the factory. Sorry to hear that there are still scum out there ripping off their fellow Hobbiests.

I've been rooked like that once on "thebay". It was a 1979 Fox .19 with the shiny case. The seller advertised shiny and new. I even contacted him and asked about the compression, he said it was excellent. When I got it I knew right away that it had been run on fuel with total synthetic oil and the compression was like the plug wasn't in. Man I was sore. I contacted this individual and he said no returns. He shouldda had a ball of his own "you know" launched at him. I complained to the site and they had his account locked. Of course you know all he had to do was open a new account under a new handle on another computer. I'm sure he has scammed others since then.

have someone in that town who flies RC go pay him a Visit[8D]

Hi,

Yeah. Sucks. I initiated a dispute with Paypal. I've asked him several times (politely) to give me my money back. So far, his attitude is 'buyer beware'. I've even asked him several times to clarify what NEW IN BOX means to him. Instead, he just replies, ''I'd never buy anything without reading the whole ad. Thanks for the purchase.'' I was hoping he'd explain how the dirt, debris, tool marks, locked-up carb, and RTV fit into the NIB category, and he just points to his having written "bench run only once" as some kind of magic disclaimer for whatever he decided to put in the box.

Thankfully it is uncommon to have some dirtbag play games like that as a seller. Hopefully paypal will refund your money because the item was misrepresented. The description, "NIB" can mean only one thing and removes all doubt about the condition of the item you are buying.

Sellers who claim the items were bought from estate sales are also something to watchout for, I have no knowlege of this item, I will not answer questions, etc. Stay away..........

People who have used that auction site for a while know that a buyer can expect very little real help from the administration on disputes such as yours. They advertise 'protection' but that's just a scam. They know there is no such thing. Just a sales pitch to get you to keep using the site.

Now they've tried to deceive the sellers into believing they (sellers) can't accept other forms of payment from the buyers except the site owned PP.

Terry in LP

Same thing happened to me.
Paypal reversed the funds as soon as I had delivery confirmation from UPS.
I then bought another engine from another fellow that was honest.

You will be out the return shipping only.
What is the fellow's name so we can avoid him?

NIB means it's never been run or mounted. It should still have the factory plastic bag and packing oil on it. The box may have some wear from sitting for years. But the item inside should still be new as the day it left the factory.

The guy hosed you. File a paypal complaint.

Don't leave feedback for 89 days!!! You have 90 days to leave feedback on ebay. If you leave negative feedback for the guy right now, he is sure to leave a retaliatory negative for you. Best bet is to write it down on the calender and leave the negative comment around midnight or 11:30pm on the last day. That way he can't retaliate. He's got no time unless he camps in front of his computer.

I think you cannot do retaliatory feedback any more, too many people were abusing it.

My eBay pay pal account is set up thru my Visa for payment. I have had visa do a reverse charge because the purchase was not as reported. If it comes out of your bank account then pay pal is your only recourse. I like the 89 day feedback, might give that a try.

Hey Yellow.... Don't feel too bad... a very similar thing happened to me on THE auction site just last week. This seller stated NEVER FIRED, NEVER RAN.... and this is what was delivered.... The worst part of the ordeal was that he was adamant that it was OK to list the engine that way, and made one lame excuse after another as to why it looked that way.

Sigh.....

If you used Paypal;
File a dispute with them asking for a refund
Send the engine back at your expense
They will almost always force the seller to refund if the buyer sends the item back at his own expense

I would guess you best use registered mail or courier or something, but the guy can refuse it if hew recognizes the sender can't he? How do you ensure the seller cannot claim he never got it?

ProBro,

I guess he meant "never run" by HIM....

As I read it, the buyers can leave negative feed back, but the sellers can now only leave positive or no feedback on the buyer.

People who must lie to sell are lower than snail snot and should be banned from selling.

I love the auctions where the person claims to know nothing about r/c engines, but says the compression is great... and, there is no glow plug installed in the engine!

David

I DON'T USE EBAY ANYMORE!! I got reamed by a company in New York on a camera. It is a long story but the worker add a little to his bank from my bank account. I got my credit card company to give my money back. I got left neg feedback by him. He even called my parents house and threatened them. I called the company that I purchased the camera from to talk to this guy and he had been fired. Ebay would do NOTHING left me hanging tried arbatration to get the feedback removed and the company never responded and my name never cleared. SO the heck with them scum bags

Hi,

The ironic thing is this guy is apparently the president of an RC club in Virginia. He knows good and well what NIB means....

The funny thing I’ve noticed is the more I mention flaws or imperfections in detail on an item I’m selling, the bigger the surprise I get from what it ends up selling for. The more pictures and info, the more money, but be upfront with people and don’t hide a thing. Even if suspect a problem mention it.

Several times I’ve thought to myself, “Are these people nuts, why are they willing to spend that much on that?” I hurry to look over my ad to see if I made a mistake, but it’s OK. Never had a complaint, bidding wars are funny.

Know this, the most trustworthy people and best deals are right hear on RCU, and most of the time you don’t need to use that infernal Paypal.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I had a problem once with a product 'not as described' and filed a claim with Paypal. I guess the guy didn't respond to the claim so I got my money back.

I have seen where dishonest persons were listed in forums or something so others new not to buy from them, and even so people could possibly track the individual down to help recover certain things.

I now only buy parts on Ebay that I can't find new elsewhere.

Oh yeah, and New In Box means to me: product has not been used. May have been sitting around for a while, maybe taken out of the box, but is in fact new and does in fact include the box.

In my preivious post I didn't say anything about the meaning of "New In Box". To me it means just that. Said Item is in Factory box and in an un-molested condition. Now if it is ten years old and never used it still qualifies as "New In Box".

Here is the MECA (Model Engine Collector's Association) guide to describing engines:

New In Box (NIB) Unused and in the original factory supplied carton, complete with all accessories as supplied by the factory which may include coil, condenser, lead wire, wrench, instructions and parts lists and matching serial number on box.

New (N) Unused and complete with all parts as originally sold by the manufacturer. No marks on mounting lugs.

Like New (LN) Run a few times, slight marks on the mounting lugs, otherwise as new.

Excellent (EXC) Run a few times, slight marks on the mounting lugs, slight discoloration of cylinder, cylinder head or other parts due to heat. Very slight scratches on the engine, good compression. Light wear on bearing surfaces.

Very Good (VG) As excellent, but used more with very good compression, slightly enlarged mounting lug holes, one or two deep scratches, or moderately discolored spots, small chipped or bent cylinder fins, bearing surfaces discernibly worn.

Good (G) As very good, but compression and bearing surface wear sufficient to warrant this rating. This rating considered the minimum internal condition necessary for use as a runner type engine.

Fair (F) Compression sufficient to run, but with reduced power output. Bearing surfaces well worn one or more missing or badly chipped, bent, scratched or repaired parts. One or more open mounting lugs. Unacceptable as a display engine, but possibly capable of a G or VG rating if overhauled and or replacement parts added.

Parts (P) A parts engine. Worn out, poor compression, broken or missing parts, surfaces badly scarred. Will not run in present condition. Not suitable for use or display.

Cosmetic (C) Engine should not be run due to weakened or deteriorated parts but cosmetically able to be classified at a higher rating.

David

Yellow

Paypal is the buyers friend. They will refund your money. Many dishonest sellers know this and are not accepting Paypal. Years ago I bought a $12k car on ebay and the seller ended up doing the right thing and refunded me a bunch of money to fix the things that were wrong with the "perfect" car. I got lucky. I ALWAYS buy using Paypal for just this reason. (232 feedbacks 100% positive).