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BAD member I mean VERY Bad

Old 06-17-2021, 09:50 AM
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hexdesign
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Default BAD member I mean VERY Bad

sold Pica T28 to Maurice Johns "Mlj3" seaford DE --I taped a piece of cardboard over the PICA image so the label would stand out--but would also not permanently damage color image
shipped asked him to send check--he stopped payment on check and what follows is what has happened and message from him and my reponse

Hi I received the kit today. I cannot believe how you ruin the appearance of the kit box with all the wet and stick brown tape.A big part of me buying this kit was the condition of the box Sir I would of been happy if you had just wrapped the whole kit in heavy brown paper.What I received is unacceptable to me for the price I paided for it.I myself would never send someone a kit that they brought and paided for and them not to receive it as pictured. I am so glad now that I did not send you a money order. I have contacted my bank and stopped payment on the check Hopefully we can work something out
YOU CANNOT REMOVE THE BROWN TAPE WITH OUT THE BOX LOOKING WORSE.. I could believe this maybe from some young kid who is just starting the hobby but from someone like you who has been in the hobby for quite some time it is unacceptable. ????

ME---You will receive shipping label in mail from UPS kindly apply to package--I will have UPS pickup package on friday
Please leave package outside in discreet spot but with a note to tell UPS driver where it is--I trust you are not an individual who would keep the kit and say it was stolen
UPS pickup Friday[/


I trusted you to send the kit as it was displayed in your ad but no you trying to save a nickel did not double box or even have the courtesy to wrap the whole kit with brown paper. It would of been something else it UPS damaged the kit I will call UPS or leave them a note that there will be nothing for them to pick up.. FYI.. I have the same kit I one I got from you I will resale[/QUOTE]
Are you the person who prepared the kit and shipped it. If so don't you have any remorse about the appearance of the item when it was sent ? What would you knock off the price ? I work M-F and I will not be home when UPS comes to pick it up[/QUOTE]

You can send all the labels you want I will not be shipping the kit back I had asked you politely to come up with a figure as to a price reduction because of you trying to save a nickel .Being the gentleman I will be sending you a payment though Pay Pal. send your Pay Pal info. I tried to be as fair to you as I can and if you cannot acknowledge your wrong doing then thats on you.let it be a lesson for you REPEAT I WILL NOT BE SENDING THE KIT BACK !!!!![/QUOTE]

I have told you at least 3 times now I am not sending the kit back send me your Pay Pal info if you want some of the money for the kit

SUMMERY --steve golden--I have sold many of my buddies kits here--with no problems members i consider as awhole --a honest RC enthusiasts--clear to me this Maurice Johns isnt one of them
hes pulling all this to get the kit WELL below the 300 he was supposed to pay--so he can re-sell and make a little $-- I sent a perfect new in box kit---now he wants to send me "some "$ for it --probably at least 100 bucks less--and im out shipping cost 18 bucks in his stopped check--and im probably not going to get the kit back at all-- so all be warned Maurice Johns has no business being a member here in my opinion
I dont know what can be done by RCU to assist I have messaged but not sure what they can do---steve golden/hex design

ME --sure enough this was his last message-----

mlj3--------Kit 300.00 Subtract 75.00 for the wet before you stick brown packaging tape all over the box..Subtract 33.00 for the stop payment bank fee..Pay to you 192.00 take it or leave it Pay Pal only Don't wait to long to decide -

SO after shipping 25 bucks and his stopped payment check cost-- 18 buck -he wants me to settle for about 150 bucks for a kit worth well over 300--- when all I want is him to slap a return label on it -- any advice members can give me a help--I hate to see him get away with this----steve

Last edited by hexdesign; 06-17-2021 at 11:39 AM.
Old 06-17-2021, 11:16 AM
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I got your PM but didn't have time to reply but this is the correct place for Joel to review.

I can tell you from experience, PayPal will almost always side with the purchaser, if it were me and I was unhappy I would take the refund offer and ship it back.
Old 06-17-2021, 12:19 PM
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hexdesign
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Andy-thanks for the response --I think this guy is such a low life-(you should see his "trailer" on google) that he sees any $$ he cant lose --if i send him my paypal address hell send me the short $$ then resell and make 150 bucks-if i dont send him my info he will just sell outright and pocket 350===Im willing to take the loss of 75 bucks in shipping and the stopped check--but just cant stomach him getting away with this--Im selling all these kits for my old buddies who are too old to do this on their own---Ive suggested that he could be removed as member here(I dont know if you have that power) but his remark to me was go ahead-see if you can--and painted me as the bad actor here--when all i did was secure box with reinforced tape--I do a lot of shipping --and my goal always is for package to arrive in good condition--thanks again Steve
Old 06-18-2021, 04:48 AM
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I feel your pain I learned long ago not to accept any form of payment that the buyer can pull this crap. There are many of them out there that make a living doing stuff like this. Postal Money Orders prefered Certified Cheque or etransfer and I do not ship until payment is recieved no exceptions.
Old 06-18-2021, 12:35 PM
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Stop payment in most states is only under certain conditions, check with his local laws. You may get it overturned talking to his bank and explaining things. I know in FL, this doesn't fly. Show his bank this email, and perhaps they can help. Conditions for a stop payment have to be met. New laws about checks have changed. Look into that.

I have a lot of shipping/transaction experience over several years with a Feebay store, and I don't ship with a label on the bare box ever. For your elderly friends sake, their kits need to go out better than what you're doing. Covering the box in brown paper or like myself, put a skin over it with cardboard, is the right step. That is upsetting to see the collector value decrease, but he's pushing it down a lot more. It's really not his call to insist he's not returning the kit. It's not his property if he stopped payment on the check.
Don't be coerced into him telling you what you should sell the kit for and just accept that, he should just send it back. You're right, he's trying to profit off you. He doesn't have any right to dictate terms that sound like ultimatums, however he has the kit and the money.
I would show him this thread, and he's likely on another RC forum, be sure to post there as well, but do it on the "other site" category, it's correct, but no one will see it. While his communication is rude, you two need to work it out. Perhaps refund him his stop check fee and you're still ahead?
Other than public shaming, you have little else on your side.I bought a pristine kit for $150 because it has collector value, and the identical kit in the wrong box for $45. Same wood, different box. Box matters. Condition matters.
You did lower its value if what he says is true, but he's pushing more than anyone else would, by my guess. You can try to negotiate it up, with nothing to make him say yes.

Do not take any form of payment in the future but PayPal, or USPS money order. Never take another check. For the money you're going to have to fight over, and the stress, you won't forget these rules of selling. Asking him to return it, if he were truly unhappy, would resolve his issue. Too bad he can't come here to the thread and show photos of the finished product, if it's minor or now looks like a piñata you'd swing a bat at. Where are your photos? I take photos of everything I ship, to cover my end should any dispute like this arise.

Old 06-18-2021, 01:45 PM
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J330==thanks great reply to my problem--yes your so right on everything--very smart-I not to save $ but time did not double box this time because the box was a great box to ship- and honestly in all the kits i ve sold here--my buddies kits -no one was interested in the box--but this guy is a real low life-(if you could see the trailer he lives in youd understand hes nothing more than a thief--and certainly no reasoning with him--your absolutely correct I will not be dictated by his terms--hes nothing more than a thief--and I will probably lose the 350 bucks--im trying to see if I can get him banned from RCU but limited cooperation there so far--but taking this guy at his word no way ill be able to get the kit back- The condition of box still good as I didnt tape over the 4 color image-i taped a cardboard piece over it

--I will however look into his stopped check as you suggest --but Deleware as I recall a very liberal state --with financing but will pursue Monday
thanks again steve
Old 06-20-2021, 05:31 AM
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Default Pica T-28

Please stay tuned. I will be sending pics of the kit as it was listed and how it looked when it was received.I have been very fair with this seller he has not answered any of my questions. He has offered no apology or remorse.If he had only double boxed or even had wrapped it it brown paper and it arrived undamaged then I would of been happy When I seen how it was prepared to ship then yes I went straight to be bank and stopped payment on the check. I offered to pay with PayPal as I always do but he said to send a check so the funds would not show up on his taxes.
Look at his feedback as I have brought a kit from him before and left him the feedback that he deserved Please view my feedback here it has always been 100%.I gave him the opportunity to suggest a price reduction that would of been fair to the both of us he never offered any so I made the determination that I would subtract 75.00 from the original price and 33.00 the bank charged me. When you view the pics then I think most folks would agree that aI am being fair. Mr. Hexdesign send ALL, the PM,s I sent you
The pics will speak for me.No I am not going to fly the box but I do expect the item that I brought to be received as when it was listed.There is brown tape on the box in areas that it doesn’t need be. Will post pics later today
The trailer is my 1st home I spend most of my time at my 2nd home..

Last edited by mlj3; 06-20-2021 at 07:19 AM.
Old 06-20-2021, 06:31 AM
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Default Pica T-28

As listed,received now


As listed


As received unacceptable



Now



What is the purpose of this tape other than to cover up the writing



Last edited by mlj3; 06-20-2021 at 07:35 AM.
Old 06-20-2021, 06:48 AM
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I am not trying to profit from him If this transaction will prevent him from sending another buyer from receiving his item the way this was sent to me then this transaction will have served its purpose. I think subtracting 75.00 from the kit which I feel is fair to me because of his negligence to save a nickel. This is total disrespect to any buyer When you buy from me you will get what’s pictured .It’s bad enough now days to receive a kit shipped praying that it arrives undamaged If it did arrive damaged then that’s another story that I would have to take up with UPS To receive it looking like this may be acceptable to you but not me

Last edited by mlj3; 06-20-2021 at 07:22 AM.
Old 06-20-2021, 06:51 AM
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I am Very Happy that he started this thread !!!! As far as being polite I have been nothing but polite to him
Please read messages who has personality attacked who

Last edited by mlj3; 06-20-2021 at 07:38 AM.
Old 06-20-2021, 07:08 AM
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hexdesign
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THE BOTTOM LINE----

I had no idea the condition of box was important-normally I double box-but but in this case the PICA box was sturdy well made and I didnt have a box to cover--
I sealed box well put cardboard over picture --I assumed the buyer was building the kit--OK my bad--I screwed up-My buddie John and I have been out of hobby for a long time
and we were builders--had not a clue to the idea of the collector value of the box------

==so Maurice Johns STOPS payment on check? Instead of complaining to me -of course Id give his $ back--my reputation as a seller here and on Ebay is important-and if any one unhappy Ill have item picked up and refund--my record in feedback as to my selling here should be noted-----but
Maurice Johns-threw a tantrum--he stopped check that cost him 33 bucks (he says)--cost me 18-in process-all this in a calculated move (see his 1st post to me-saying "maybe we can work this out") to get the kit at a reduced price so he could make more $ from the resale--Now hes holding kit hostage-saying no way he will place the UPS
label on it that was sent and leave outside for UPS to pickup--He still sees he can make $ from this if I dont take the kit back and give him the kit for what hes offered
I disagree with you Maurice Johns (no surprise) as to whos being fair--you Maurice Johns set this up--when it didnt have to happen--Im doing this for my 85 year old buddie-who needs $ just as well as you Maurice Johns-HE wants the kit back-and I will not short him---and I will not "settle" -that kit belongs to my buddie John--and as of now you are nothing more than a thief--but you can change that --

Last edited by hexdesign; 06-20-2021 at 08:33 AM.
Old 06-20-2021, 07:51 AM
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No box to double box,no cardboard to cover it then you should of went and brought a roll of Kraft Heavy brown paper and wrapped the whole box It was a few days later that you shipped it
It would of certainly been a little better if he would of at least used clear tape. I had to find the edge of the cardboard under that brown tape and cut it away Don’t forget to mention shipping was 23.00 the check was for 325.00. Do you need a screen shot of that and the stop payment fee ??

Last edited by mlj3; 06-20-2021 at 12:52 PM.
Old 06-20-2021, 07:56 AM
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Re: Pica t28I would like to avoid pay pal can you send a personal check-- to steve golden
215 benmont Ave Bennington VT 05201 Ill wrap up and ship tomorrow
Old 06-20-2021, 08:13 AM
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No you shouldn’t short your 85 year old buddy because of your Negligence
The pics tells the story I have to say no more. FYI the UPS label has not arrived yet. I will send it back to you when it arrives

Last edited by mlj3; 06-20-2021 at 08:43 AM.
Old 06-20-2021, 01:26 PM
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Your asking price was 300.00 OBO shipping was 23.00 I sent you a check as you requested The amount of check was 325.00.I expected to receive the kit as it was pictured nothing more or less When I order items from Amazon I don’t expect them to cover up any pictures with cardboard and slap a label on it
Old 06-20-2021, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mlj3 View Post
I am not trying to profit from him If this transaction will prevent him from sending another buyer from receiving his item the way this was sent to me then this transaction will have served its purpose. I think subtracting 75.00 from the kit which I feel is fair to me because of his negligence to save a nickel. This is total disrespect to any buyer When you buy from me you will get what’s pictured .It’s bad enough now days to receive a kit shipped praying that it arrives undamaged If it did arrive damaged then that’s another story that I would have to take up with UPS To receive it looking like this may be acceptable to you but not me
Of course its fair to you. Guys like you are the reason I insist on money up front before I ship. Obviously you still want the kit either for resale or yourself either way if your not happy with the kit as it arrived and he has sent a return label send it back or give him his full payment. You setting the price after the fact claiming you are owed is bull crap and you know it. You just don't want to pay the price agreed upon and you give him no alternative but to accept what you want to pay. To me that is a low life. You recovered the money return the kit or in my opinion you are the thief plain and simple.

Dennis

Last edited by Propworn; 06-20-2021 at 02:29 PM.
Old 06-20-2021, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mlj3 View Post
Please view my feedback here it has always been 100%. I gave him the opportunity to suggest a price reduction that would of been fair to the both of us he never offered any so I made the determination that I would subtract 75.00 from the original price and 33.00 the bank charged me.
The pics will speak for me. No I am not going to fly the box but I do expect the item that I brought to be received as when it was listed.There is brown tape on the box in areas that it doesn’t need be.
I see your points you've made, and these statements I agree with. You did tell him before you were not sending it back though in the beginning. Heat of the moment perhaps.
I take it that you stopped payment first, then began discussing the devalued kit, correct? Was time of the essence to catch the processing here? I would perhaps consider on his end, he's also suffering a bank fee as well and they nearly cancel each other out. How about let the fees go?
Work out some compromise? The photos show the kit was once beautiful, now not collector value. To avoid paying shipping both ways, can you guys work on the numbers? All points are clear and stated. If the fees aren't part of the negotiation, would $75 off make it right? The wet adhesive moving tape, isn't packing/shipping clear tape, it is now a builders kit as they say.

Originally Posted by mlj3 View Post
I think subtracting 75.00 from the kit which I feel is fair to me because of his negligence to save a nickel. This is total disrespect to any buyer When you buy from me you will get what’s pictured .It’s bad enough now days to receive a kit shipped praying that it arrives undamaged If it did arrive damaged then that’s another story that I would have to take up with UPS To receive it looking like this may be acceptable to you but not me
I agree with this statement, and seeing the photos, I think this is fair, but the seller has to decide, not me. I do not think you're entitled to ask him to pay the bank fee as you chose that step before presenting any offer, so it appears from what you stated. Think of it this way, if you used PayPal, and wanted to return it, the kit is still complete, so you'd have to pay return shipping out of pocket to get your money back. Why not compromise the bank fee? I see the seller with a net of $261 getting it back. In a way, that puts him ahead then giving you a larger discount, than $64, if the numbers are correct.

Originally Posted by mlj3 View Post
No box to double box,no cardboard to cover it then you should of went and brought a roll of Kraft Heavy brown paper and wrapped the whole box It was a few days later that you shipped it
I think the seller learned this lesson. With your ratings and experience, after this, you may insist in the future to only use PayPal or pass on buying kits. When you see sellers with few ratings, selling items for others, it's important to ask how you want it packaged.

I've been down this road already myself, not fun. This 1970s PICA kit, that Dave Platt designed back when he owned Dave Platt Models, Inc. The seller isn't familiar with how important the box is. Some settlement would be good to see.
Originally Posted by mlj3 View Post
FYI the UPS label has not arrived yet. I will send it back to you when it arrives
It's good to see this statement, because the seller was concerned you'd never give him that option that he asked for right away.

Were you going to build this at some point in time?
Old 06-20-2021, 06:08 PM
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Please read my 1st message that he posted that I sent him. I asked that hopefully we could work something out.He did not offer anything.Days went by and the next PM I received from him was that he was mailing me a UPS Label to return the package I wanted the kit and I asked to negotiate a amount that would be fair to both of us and yes If the transaction would of went through Pay Pal then I would of not returned it to him and would just bite the the bullet the the kit was not received as it was pictured in the AD.I am not really a builder anymore I have a club member who does my builds Read in his message that he sent me a perfect new in box kit. I brought from him what I thought was a perfect new in box kit the pics show differently it was until he slapped that brown tape on it.If he would of used his head and was thoughtful of his buyer then the check would of been cashed and me with a nice kit. I paided him for the item as it was pictured I paided him his asking price Its no business of his wheather I build it or resale it

Last edited by mlj3; 06-20-2021 at 07:02 PM.
Old 06-21-2021, 03:55 AM
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I will waive the 33.00 fee from my bank I will be sending the seller a USPS Postal Money Order in the amount of 225.00..he will just have to explain to the person he was selling the kit for as to why he did not receive the full 300.00
Old 06-21-2021, 04:13 AM
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Maurice DO NOT send money order--John Kronau owner --wants the kit back --UPS will advise me when lablel delivered--I ordered it a week ago --
I trust that when I get it back contents will be intact and not disturbed in any way--as I see you ve opened the box-----

Quoting you "FYI the UPS label has not arrived yet. I will send it back to you when it arrives"

Last edited by hexdesign; 06-21-2021 at 04:21 AM.
Old 06-21-2021, 01:32 PM
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UPS Label arrived in today’s mail. I took the box and the envelope to the UPS store in my town Lady asked how was the package sent to me as far as label placement on the box I showed her the pic and she shook her head and asked if I wanted to just slap a label on the white portion of the box I said no I will buy a box for you to double box. I paided for the box and left the box on the counter as seen .You don’t owe me a cent If you feel that you want to contribute then just give the funds to the owner of the kit






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Old 06-21-2021, 02:00 PM
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Let's avoid personal insults, guys.

Is this settled?
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Old 06-21-2021, 05:41 PM
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Edited
Old 06-22-2021, 03:31 AM
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Probably --Joel--Ill advise in thread when the kit comes back and properly thank mlj3 for doing the right thing steve golden
Old 06-23-2021, 04:43 PM
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Thank you Maurice Johns for sending kit back to me -and showing me how to ship precious cargo--I have in fact learned lesson-so you have succeeded in that and I thank you ! Im sorry that my error caused way too much grief----steve golden / hex design inc
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