100XBL start failure
12-12-2020, 08:28 AM
#26
JM 100 failed start
I have a Merlin 100XBL purhased Dec. 2015 Sn 132650. I test ran it right after receipt and test run was OK. Today I tried to start it and the kero never lit. I have run a lot of propane start engines but this is my first Kero start. The starter runs it up to 4000 rpm and then it fades down to approx. 3000 over the next 45 seconds but kero never lights.
Looking for suggestions.
Sid Gates
720-346-7970
P.S. I tried a new battery 2S lipo and another battery that works OK on Propane start engine using a very short lead from battery to ESC.
Looking for suggestions.
Sid Gates
720-346-7970
P.S. I tried a new battery 2S lipo and another battery that works OK on Propane start engine using a very short lead from battery to ESC.
getting it primed correctly . Would have tried pulling the fuel line and running some fuel through to clear the pump.
Last edited by stegl; 12-12-2020 at 08:30 AM. Reason: Add comments
12-13-2020, 12:22 PM
#28
Could be due to C rating and or Lipos at the end of their lifespan for good current supply. Check the C ratings and IR of the older packs.
Ceramic kero start glow plugs need more current to start than propane start systems
Ceramic kero start glow plugs need more current to start than propane start systems
12-14-2020, 08:02 AM
#30
I have seen this a lot, page over and watch the voltage during your next start. You need a good higher C rating, you have a pump, electronics, starter and a glow ignitor (possibly) two now all at one. I can't count the number of times I have had someone a fresh battery have this issue. The battery is at 8.4v then as soon as the start sequence starts the voltage drops 7.1volts which generally want start some motors.
08-04-2022, 04:54 AM
#31
My Feedback: (66)
Help, Please
Yesterday I went out to fly my Reaction and the ambient at the field was 103F. The 100XBL turbine refused to start. This morning I checked all the parameters and found no anomalies. Upon trying to start it - I found that the fuel pre-heat is not climbing and the start up sequence aborts after a few seconds.
Is there any way to check the pre-heat heater or change any parameters affecting it's working?
Thanks for any and every advice
Josh
Yesterday I went out to fly my Reaction and the ambient at the field was 103F. The 100XBL turbine refused to start. This morning I checked all the parameters and found no anomalies. Upon trying to start it - I found that the fuel pre-heat is not climbing and the start up sequence aborts after a few seconds.
Is there any way to check the pre-heat heater or change any parameters affecting it's working?
Thanks for any and every advice
Josh
08-04-2022, 07:04 AM
#32
The 100XBL is similar to the VT80 , I would think and I had a similar no start problem. last year . I would get into the glow plug settings and bump it up by .1 in the voltage setting.
try that and if a no light then try again by upping .1v. If still no light after bumping by a total of .4v I would then go to checking the fuel valves. To do this ; I used a small bicycle
tire pump with a gauge and pressurized the fuel inlet line on the turbine. On your GSU unit go to fuel valve test function and you should see a slow leak down on the gauge. You don't
need a lot of pressure , just enough to show on the gauge that the valve is opening and air is flowing. then do the same for the running valve which should show a faster leak-down.
what you are checking is that the valve is really opening and flowing air ( fuel) . When testing you may hear a click but if the valve is plugged you won't flow air/fuel.
You did not mention how many hours on the 100 ? Ended up ; my glow plug was shot and had to be replaced. I sent mine into Jets Munt Americas for servicing in CA.
Also as Josh mentioned a fully charged battery is a must .
try that and if a no light then try again by upping .1v. If still no light after bumping by a total of .4v I would then go to checking the fuel valves. To do this ; I used a small bicycle
tire pump with a gauge and pressurized the fuel inlet line on the turbine. On your GSU unit go to fuel valve test function and you should see a slow leak down on the gauge. You don't
need a lot of pressure , just enough to show on the gauge that the valve is opening and air is flowing. then do the same for the running valve which should show a faster leak-down.
what you are checking is that the valve is really opening and flowing air ( fuel) . When testing you may hear a click but if the valve is plugged you won't flow air/fuel.
You did not mention how many hours on the 100 ? Ended up ; my glow plug was shot and had to be replaced. I sent mine into Jets Munt Americas for servicing in CA.
Also as Josh mentioned a fully charged battery is a must .
08-04-2022, 07:49 AM
#33
My Feedback: (66)
Thanks for responding but I think that the problem is different. Here is what I have done:
Since I have two 100XBL turbines, I swapped one that just came back from service in. It fired on the first attempt. I let it cool down and then tried to fire it again, the starter will not spin and the start sequence does not do anything. I thought, well - perhaps something is wrong with the FADEC so, I swapped FADECs and re-learned the turbine to the Tx. This went fine but when trying to start again - Nothing! The battery is 2S, 4200 mAh Lipo - Brand New. I checked voltage and it showed 3.96V per cell. I just finished charging and going out to try again.
Since I have two 100XBL turbines, I swapped one that just came back from service in. It fired on the first attempt. I let it cool down and then tried to fire it again, the starter will not spin and the start sequence does not do anything. I thought, well - perhaps something is wrong with the FADEC so, I swapped FADECs and re-learned the turbine to the Tx. This went fine but when trying to start again - Nothing! The battery is 2S, 4200 mAh Lipo - Brand New. I checked voltage and it showed 3.96V per cell. I just finished charging and going out to try again.
08-05-2022, 07:23 AM
#34
My Feedback: (66)
Well, I realigned the ECU to the Tx on the second turbine and when I initiated a start sequence it fired right up so this turbine is OK. I than swapped back to the original turbine without re-aligning its ECU to the Tx. When I initiated a start sequence the starter immediately kicked in and spun the turbine normally but the temperature would not rise and after a few seconds the system aborted.
Keith from Fenderbean was with me on the phone and we pretty much concluded that the igniter may be faulty. I am going to send him the turbine to be repaired.
On this note: I believe that all of us Jetsmunt owners got screwed royaly when Jetsmunt changed owners. The new owner had (and still seems to) a line of crappy service outlets after for no good reasons they forced Keith out of being Jetsmunt service provider in the USA.
I would urge all Jetsmunt owner to write the factory and ask them to renew the service contract with Keith.
Josh
Keith from Fenderbean was with me on the phone and we pretty much concluded that the igniter may be faulty. I am going to send him the turbine to be repaired.
On this note: I believe that all of us Jetsmunt owners got screwed royaly when Jetsmunt changed owners. The new owner had (and still seems to) a line of crappy service outlets after for no good reasons they forced Keith out of being Jetsmunt service provider in the USA.
I would urge all Jetsmunt owner to write the factory and ask them to renew the service contract with Keith.
Josh
11-27-2022, 08:31 AM
#35
I just bought a merlin 100XBL with 9 hours on it. It was previously run on Kero & turbine oil. As the manufacturer says that the turbine can use kero & synthetic two stroke oil & I had a few gallons of it, I used that for my first flight. When I went do my next flight of the day, it would not start. In the start cycle, the starter would not spin the turbine at a high enough speed to initiate the start, resulting in failed starts. I noticed that the turbine wheel was slightly stiff to turn. This was causing the rpm not to reach the speed required for a start.
When I got home, I drained out all the two stroke kero & filled with kero & turbine oil. I deliberately flooded the turbine to wash out the bearings. At the next attempt at a start failed, as the rear bearing was still slightly sticky. I then fired up my butane torch & heated the rear bearing area for a minute. This made the bearing much easier to spin. The turbine then started without any problems.
I am of the opinion, that two stroke oil is thicker than turbine oil & was causing the bearings to become sticky, so causing failed starts. No more two stroke oil for me. I notice that Jets Munt no longer approve the use of two stroke oil in their current turbines.
It would be interesting to see if those having start problems are using two stroke oil?
When I got home, I drained out all the two stroke kero & filled with kero & turbine oil. I deliberately flooded the turbine to wash out the bearings. At the next attempt at a start failed, as the rear bearing was still slightly sticky. I then fired up my butane torch & heated the rear bearing area for a minute. This made the bearing much easier to spin. The turbine then started without any problems.
I am of the opinion, that two stroke oil is thicker than turbine oil & was causing the bearings to become sticky, so causing failed starts. No more two stroke oil for me. I notice that Jets Munt no longer approve the use of two stroke oil in their current turbines.
It would be interesting to see if those having start problems are using two stroke oil?
11-27-2022, 09:30 AM
#37
JM 100 turbine and oils
I just bought a merlin 100XBL with 9 hours on it. It was previously run on Kero & turbine oil. As the manufacturer says that the turbine can use kero & synthetic two stroke oil & I had a few gallons of it, I used that for my first flight. When I went do my next flight of the day, it would not start. In the start cycle, the starter would not spin the turbine at a high enough speed to initiate the start, resulting in failed starts. I noticed that the turbine wheel was slightly stiff to turn. This was causing the rpm not to reach the speed required for a start.
When I got home, I drained out all the two stroke kero & filled with kero & turbine oil. I deliberately flooded the turbine to wash out the bearings. At the next attempt at a start failed, as the rear bearing was still slightly sticky. I then fired up my butane torch & heated the rear bearing area for a minute. This made the bearing much easier to spin. The turbine then started without any problems.
I am of the opinion, that two stroke oil is thicker than turbine oil & was causing the bearings to become sticky, so causing failed starts. No more two stroke oil for me. I notice that Jets Munt no longer approve the use of two stroke oil in their current turbines.
It would be interesting to see if those having start problems are using two stroke oil?
When I got home, I drained out all the two stroke kero & filled with kero & turbine oil. I deliberately flooded the turbine to wash out the bearings. At the next attempt at a start failed, as the rear bearing was still slightly sticky. I then fired up my butane torch & heated the rear bearing area for a minute. This made the bearing much easier to spin. The turbine then started without any problems.
I am of the opinion, that two stroke oil is thicker than turbine oil & was causing the bearings to become sticky, so causing failed starts. No more two stroke oil for me. I notice that Jets Munt no longer approve the use of two stroke oil in their current turbines.
It would be interesting to see if those having start problems are using two stroke oil?
I believe that JM does state or did that the running of some 2 stroke synthetic oils can cause sticky bearings and much better to use Mobile DTE oils so yes they may have changed the usage. Also not all 2 stroke synthetic oils are equal. The Kingtech oil ( very overpriced) for the most part is the equivalent of Mobile DTE except under the Shell brand equivalent with their additives added in but they won't say what. )from my understanding)
I premix my DTE and about 1.5- 2 oz of Shell 2 stroke synthetic snowmobile oil into 500 ml plastic bottles. Our kero containers here come in 9.5 litre containers so I just add in the 500ml (.5L ) and I end up with 10 litres of mixed fuel. The shell oil is a very dark blue and slightly colors the clear kero so that way I know that I have mixed fuel. No labeling required
https://www.altecare.com/jetsmuntX10manual.pdf Page 17
https://jets-munt.com/wp-content/upl...-JM-XS-1.7.pdf page 21 info on the latest turbines thay make and oil combinations .
According to this link they state that if using Synthetic 2 stroke oil to mix at 3% so if mixing at 5% as most do that would be a little too much and could cause the issue.
Last edited by stegl; 11-27-2022 at 09:41 AM.
11-27-2022, 04:29 PM
#38
I think there is something wrong with either the bearing used or the design of the JM 100XBL, I have one these engines that has always had sticky bearing issues. I sent my
engine to the factory in Spain with this issue and instead of replacing the bearing they claimed to have cleaned them and after one run the the bearing were tight again.
I supposedly had the bearings replaced by JM America's last year and only had less than a hour run time before bearing became sticky again so I am very unhappy with
Jet Munts. I have a JM VT 80 with over 19 hours run time using the same fuel and oil and only recently started to show some bearing tightness but not to the degree
as the 100XBL.
engine to the factory in Spain with this issue and instead of replacing the bearing they claimed to have cleaned them and after one run the the bearing were tight again.
I supposedly had the bearings replaced by JM America's last year and only had less than a hour run time before bearing became sticky again so I am very unhappy with
Jet Munts. I have a JM VT 80 with over 19 hours run time using the same fuel and oil and only recently started to show some bearing tightness but not to the degree
as the 100XBL.
11-28-2022, 02:34 PM
#40
I have constantly had a sticky bearing issue with.
