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Freekin government banning "DRONES" in national parks

Old 07-03-2014, 07:05 AM
  #51  
flyinwalenda
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Originally Posted by GerKonig View Post
Come on neighbor! Turning off GPS would cause so many problems you have no clue, but you have SOME idea:-)

Gerry
Yes , like drivers actually having to open up and read a road atlas or city map !
When if's and buts are candy and nuts , every day would be Christmas !
As we have already mentioned the issue is the proposed legislation by the FAA and state and local gov and the uneducated on RC copters and what can be done about it. The uneducated comparing them to drones, and the knee-jerk reactionary regulations , fed, state and local parks banning them is just the start. If they are allowed to have their way all RC craft could be severely regulated or worse. Laws already on the books will cover the morons operating multirotors unsafely , common sense should prevail. We don't need any more regulation of the hobby.
Old 07-03-2014, 07:21 AM
  #52  
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[QUOTE=flyinwalenda;11834753]Yes , like drivers actually having to open up and read a road atlas or city map !

Trust me, IF the GPS system goes down, it would cripple entire weapons systems, not to mention communications, navegation, etc.:-) The GPS system was NOT created just for drivers (or walkers)... Take my word for it, it will never happen. And remember, all governments have the correction they need to hit the nail on the head using the GPS system. So, no, not a good idea.

I used to fly RC gliders (using a high start) in a park close to my place (Core Creek Park, Bucks County), I never had a problem, until one day I tried to fly an OS powered Eaglet. Got kicked out in an instant.

So, I do not believe you can just go to a park and fly (at least in my experience). Years back doing research while attempting to get a permit to fly at a park, I found out which was the deadliest activity at the parks (at the national level): bicycle riding:-)

I am 64 years old, and I really believe that when the creator handed out common sense, our country got severely shortchanged...

Gerry
Old 07-03-2014, 08:38 AM
  #53  
blhollo2
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Why are people surprised? Come on, you knew in your gut this would happen.... mix irrisponsible people and the media and **Poof** Quads are banned!! i'm not surprised at all, knew it would come to this.
Old 07-03-2014, 08:56 AM
  #54  
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what happens when someone isnt thinking about where they are flying and what they are near. maybe a small private airfield that little cessnas fly in and out of. what happens if that quad or bigger hits the cessna?? i bet it wouldnt be pretty. seeing what a bird can do to bigger jet planes. its all what ifs.
It's happened. Large RC plane hit a Pitts bipe, Pitts with 2 on board landed ok. Let's not 'create' a problem by overthinking or talking constantly about it.

well, I never heard of a heli that can auto pilot to a gps location.
Yamaha makes a very large one for agricultural use.
Old 07-03-2014, 08:57 AM
  #55  
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[QUOTE=GerKonig;11834760]
Originally Posted by flyinwalenda View Post
Yes , like drivers actually having to open up and read a road atlas or city map !

Trust me, IF the GPS system goes down, it would cripple entire weapons systems, not to mention communications, navegation, etc.:-) The GPS system was NOT created just for drivers (or walkers)... Take my word for it, it will never happen. And remember, all governments have the correction they need to hit the nail on the head using the GPS system. So, no, not a good idea.

I used to fly RC gliders (using a high start) in a park close to my place (Core Creek Park, Bucks County), I never had a problem, until one day I tried to fly an OS powered Eaglet. Got kicked out in an instant.

So, I do not believe you can just go to a park and fly (at least in my experience). Years back doing research while attempting to get a permit to fly at a park, I found out which was the deadliest activity at the parks (at the national level): bicycle riding:-)

I am 64 years old, and I really believe that when the creator handed out common sense, our country got severely shortchanged...

Gerry
GPS can be selectively disabled, preventing civilian use but still fully operational for military purposes.

However doing so would cripple commercial aviation in many parts of the world as there are hundreds of airports that rely purely on GPS based instrument approaches and most of the airspace structure in Europe and across the North Atlantic now relies heavily on the accuracy afforded by GPS.

Among other things like shipping and perhaps numerous industries that rely on GPS every day.

Last edited by Rob2160; 07-03-2014 at 09:05 AM.
Old 07-03-2014, 09:11 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by FLYBOY View Post
Man, sheeple are so stupid in heards.
I think you meant "herds" - not "heards".

When people go to a national park they're generally going there to commune with nature. They don't want to have whirring, buzzing, gizmo's disturbing the peace. We get enough of that in the big city. Please, please, please show a little restraint at national parks. Most people don't want to encounter technology at a national park.

Hopefully the Federal Guvmint will get around to disallowing obnoxiously loud cars, trucks, and motorcycles at national parks as well.
Old 07-03-2014, 09:37 AM
  #57  
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[QUOTE=Rob2160;11834827]
Originally Posted by GerKonig View Post

GPS can be selectively disabled, preventing civilian use but still fully operational for military purposes.

However doing so would cripple commercial aviation in many parts of the world as there are hundreds of airports that rely purely on GPS based instrument approaches and most of the airspace structure in Europe and across the North Atlantic now relies heavily on the accuracy afforded by GPS.

Among other things like shipping and perhaps numerous industries that rely on GPS every day.
The variety of operations that depend on it is amazing. It is being use for everything. In Philadelphia you have the Drexel bus making rounds moving students. Now you know exactly where it is any time of the day. Companies track cab drivers, or their truck drivers.
In Europe we hire buses evey 2 years when we take a youth orchestra on tour. The drivers "clock" in with their card in a card reader onboard the bus, in order to be able to start the bus, and if that bus is running 12 (does not matter if it was stopped 8 hours during the day) hours later, it gets electronically disabled (you can only use the bus 12 hours in a day, or you need another driver). The operator company gets all the data (even the places where the driver did speed on a highway, well if that would happen, mileage, etc.). All this stuff gets recorded on the driver's card when he swipes it at the end of the day. When the driver get's home, he swipes the card, and HR gets all his time records to pay the driver. We tag pictures in our cameras using the GPS... All cellphones use it...

Gerry
Old 07-03-2014, 09:40 AM
  #58  
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Why are people surprised? Come on, you knew in your gut this would happen.... mix irrisponsible people and the media and **Poof** Quads are banned!! i'm not surprised at all, knew it would come to this.
Old 07-03-2014, 09:48 AM
  #59  
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Figured that I had already added my two cents worth to this thread. But, I have one more cent left, in the form of a question and that question is ...................

I live in what is most likely the largest national park in the United States, which happens to be the " Adirondack National Park ". You can take 6 other national parks and place them all within the confines of the Adirondack park, which just happens to be " 6 " million acres.

My question is that even if they were to ban quads in a " National Park ", where is the funding and the man power going to come from, to enforce the ban ? As with the park that I live in, where are they going to get the man power to police " 6 " million acres ?
Old 07-03-2014, 11:35 AM
  #60  
Bob Pastorello
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Congressional mandate, Public Law, Statute, Rule or Regulation will never, EVER, "fix STUPID".
The totally uninformed purchasers of technology with capabilities that they cannot fathom who only see a new "toy" are not seeing anything beyond their self-centered personal gratification.
"We" cannot police them. They don't know and/or don't care about the AMA, and "they" can't police them, so what is left to make ANY attempt to manage others' stupidity besides Federal regulations and unilateral actions?
Real hobbyists and model enthusiasts are going to be the losers in this whole deal. We better get used to it....
Old 07-03-2014, 12:02 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Granpooba View Post
Figured that I had already added my two cents worth to this thread. But, I have one more cent left, in the form of a question and that question is ...................

I live in what is most likely the largest national park in the United States, which happens to be the " Adirondack National Park ". You can take 6 other national parks and place them all within the confines of the Adirondack park, which just happens to be " 6 " million acres.

My question is that even if they were to ban quads in a " National Park ", where is the funding and the man power going to come from, to enforce the ban ? As with the park that I live in, where are they going to get the man power to police " 6 " million acres ?
There isn't going to be any additional manpower devoted to this, it's just going to give LE more tools to use in stopping it, or punishing the offender once it's discovered. Expect a summons, a ticket, or maybe even an arrest, in addition to fines. Can almost promise an arrest for those that feel like "standing up" to the police, who some seem to feel are just downright evil.

Regardless of legislation, multirotor flights will continue, so will FPV, as will the stories in the media.

Originally Posted by Bob Pastorello View Post
Congressional mandate, Public Law, Statute, Rule or Regulation will never, EVER, "fix STUPID".
The totally uninformed purchasers of technology with capabilities that they cannot fathom who only see a new "toy" are not seeing anything beyond their self-centered personal gratification.
"We" cannot police them. They don't know and/or don't care about the AMA, and "they" can't police them, so what is left to make ANY attempt to manage others' stupidity besides Federal regulations and unilateral actions?
Real hobbyists and model enthusiasts are going to be the losers in this whole deal. We better get used to it....
An additional concern perhaps are those that are completely informed that will continue to fly as they deem appropriate. There are plenty of threads that have comments from folks that clearly indicate they will continue to fly wherever they want, because they feel it is their right to do so. An FAA reg isn't going to stop that, nor is an AMA membership. My fear is what cities and towns are going to start doing if these type of prohibitions are not already in the books. I cringe when I see news reports on the "drones" now, the stories about military ones are slowly being replaced with quads/multi-rotors.
Old 07-03-2014, 12:02 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Bob Pastorello View Post
Congressional mandate, Public Law, Statute, Rule or Regulation will never, EVER, "fix STUPID".
The totally uninformed purchasers of technology with capabilities that they cannot fathom who only see a new "toy" are not seeing anything beyond their self-centered personal gratification.
"We" cannot police them. They don't know and/or don't care about the AMA, and "they" can't police them, so what is left to make ANY attempt to manage others' stupidity besides Federal regulations and unilateral actions?
Real hobbyists and model enthusiasts are going to be the losers in this whole deal. We better get used to it....
The Idiots won't have to be policed. This hobby/sport will only exist at a Community Based Origination field.
And right now the only Community Based Origination is the AMA The FAA is going to ban every type of flying starting with FPV.
The FAA is Like the IRS U are guilty till U prove your self innocent. That is why it is so critical U me and every hobby shop and person interested in keeping our Hobby/Sport like it is that we respond to the FAA Interpretive Rule for Model Aircraft.
Read this and Respond by the 25th of July or forever take what the FAA let's U have.

http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama...aircraft-rule/
Old 07-03-2014, 12:30 PM
  #63  
Bob Pastorello
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There is no such animal as a "Community Based Organization Field". No place, except maybe the national site in Muncie. All other sites have clubs and/or persons who are AMA members, who band together to obtain an AMA CLUB Sanction for a particular flying location. A flying site does not become "sanctioned. Having dealt with this issue personally very recently, it is a FACT.

At any rate - I sent my comments in yesterday, and I encourage EVERYONE to send in theirs, and PLEASE do not use that worthless boilerplate form letter format. If you read the Feds suggestions on how to write a comment, that form letter stuff ain't gonna make a hillobeans.

Regrettably, those of us trying to comply will end up being the punished ones for the deeds of the rogue idiots who have $$$ and no Sense.
Old 07-03-2014, 12:34 PM
  #64  
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An additional concern perhaps are those that are completely informed that will continue to fly as they deem appropriate. There are plenty of threads that have comments from folks that clearly indicate they will continue to fly wherever they want, because they feel it is their right to do so
It's called civil disobedience, not obeying a law one believes is unfair or unjust. It covers everything from the Boston tea party, prohibition-era speakeasies, to choosing a seat on a bus. It's part of our heritage.

The government regulated sight-seeing flights in the national parks many years ago. Prior to that, visitors could ride below the rim of the Grand Canyon in planes and helicopters. Much less exciting now, but safer and less noisy.
Old 07-03-2014, 12:46 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by eddieC View Post
"....It's called civil disobedience.............",
There are no doubt lot's of phrases that could be used to describe what they are doing.....for sure.

Happy 4th!
Old 07-03-2014, 01:17 PM
  #66  
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[QUOTE=GerKonig;11834760]
Originally Posted by flyinwalenda View Post
Yes , like drivers actually having to open up and read a road atlas or city map !

Trust me, IF the GPS system goes down, it would cripple entire weapons systems, not to mention communications, navegation, etc.:-) The GPS system was NOT created just for drivers (or walkers)... Take my word for it, it will never happen. And remember, all governments have the correction they need to hit the nail on the head using the GPS system. So, no, not a good idea.

I used to fly RC gliders (using a high start) in a park close to my place (Core Creek Park, Bucks County), I never had a problem, until one day I tried to fly an OS powered Eaglet. Got kicked out in an instant.

So, I do not believe you can just go to a park and fly (at least in my experience). Years back doing research while attempting to get a permit to fly at a park, I found out which was the deadliest activity at the parks (at the national level): bicycle riding:-)

I am 64 years old, and I really believe that when the creator handed out common sense, our country got severely shortchanged...

Gerry
I've mentioned this several times already. The GPS RC craft use is the same GPS satellite that is used for vehicle navigation units , hand-held navigation units, cell phone navigation, etc...,. It IS NOT the same as military GPS....They are completely different systems and satellites. That is why the military can drop a missile from a drone down an exhaust pipe from a hundred miles away and an RC multicoptor will "come home" and land 20' from where it started if you are lucky.
Old 07-03-2014, 01:41 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by flyinwalenda View Post

I've mentioned this several times already. The GPS RC craft use is the same GPS satellite that is used for vehicle navigation units , hand-held navigation units, cell phone navigation, etc...,. It IS NOT the same as military GPS....They are completely different systems and satellites. That is why the military can drop a missile from a drone down an exhaust pipe from a hundred miles away and an RC multicoptor will "come home" and land 20' from where it started if you are lucky.
I agree there are differences between Civil and Military GPS receivers and their accuracies but I'm not sure they use different satellites. My understanding is that all Navstar satellites transmit both SPS (Standard Positioning Service) and PPS signals and the PPS (Precise Positioning Service) can only be decoded by military GPS units.

http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy/

http://www.navipedia.net/index.php/GPS_Services

There are different GPS constellations also, such as the Russian Glonass, and European Galileo.

Apple products such as iPhones and iPads can receive both the US Navstar GPS and Glonass.

Last edited by Rob2160; 07-03-2014 at 02:39 PM.
Old 07-03-2014, 03:21 PM
  #68  
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How about this, the quads used in the great wilderness will finally capture BIGFOOT on film. I mean new footage
Old 07-03-2014, 03:41 PM
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I have to wonder if our military is developing multi rotor drones. It could be the terrorists worse nitemare. maybe a way to kill them all. The attack drone! Imagine a squadron of them coming down the street after you. If it cant get you cause you holed up inside a building, once it knows your in there, they just call in the big bomb and no more bad guy. This is the beginning of the robots
Old 07-03-2014, 03:53 PM
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Having had a heart attack and now being retired, I have given up my 1st. Class FAA Medical, thus my Airline Transport Pilot certificate in no longer valid. If I were to violate an FAA Regulation, what could they take away from me ? Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ........... NOTHING !

Why don't we all just put this subject to rest for a few days, do some model flying and enjoy what others have given us and that would happen to be our " Independence " Day !

Folks, have a Happy 4th of July / Independence Day !

Last edited by Granpooba; 07-03-2014 at 03:56 PM.
Old 07-03-2014, 05:37 PM
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Here is another story of a "drone" but this time crashing into a private citizens home property. The drone owner did put his phone number and address . http://denver.cbslocal.com/2014/07/0...mans-backyard/
R/C quads are a thorn for our hobby . I remember the cops running my dad off for flying U/C at the city park and that was 1960 . We can expect more negative outlook in the future imo. Johnny Lawman can't wait to take your toy away from you .
Old 07-03-2014, 06:01 PM
  #72  
porcia83
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Originally Posted by FuzzyDice View Post
"...R/C quads are a thorn for our hobby....."
lol...you might be showing your age here.

CL flying, now THAT'S how its done.
Nitro planes...they will be a thorn for our hobby.
Gas planes.....loud, and they will be a thorn of our hobby.
Die/Laser cut...that's not building, this is the beginning of the end of our hobby.
ARFs....I mean, really, this is a death knell to the hobby.
FOAM.....FOAM...are you kidding me, FOAM? ARGHHH!
Helis....they don't belong in this hobby/club/field. Let one heli guy in, and soon the club will be taken over by them people.
2.4 has all those brown out problems, 72 is the way to go!
Expo/dual rates, who needs that? My expo is called my thumbs!
See a trend here?

It's not the technology, it's how it's used.

Multi rotors are breathing a new breath of fresh air into the hobby, just as ARFs and Foamies and parkflyers with gyros have done. They are breathtakingly amazing in terms of technology and capacity. It would be significantly shortsighted to dismiss them. Embrace and adapt or stagnate and wither.
Old 07-03-2014, 07:02 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by madmorgan View Post
ponder this for a moment ehh. how much do the camera and gimbal setups weigh ? how long can say a dji phantom fly with the cameras that come with them.? remove camera and gimbal replace them with same amount of c4 say for instance 1 pound. 1 pound can do a ton of damage ehh. with gps and fpv a terrorist could easily bomb any place and be far away enough to not really be noticed. is it bs yes and no ! also i noticed a guy on hf with gps etc setup on his 600 or 700 heli the thing was high in the air. what happens when someone isnt thinking about where they are flying and what they are near. maybe a small private airfield that little cessnas fly in and out of. what happens if that quad or bigger hits the cessna?? i bet it wouldnt be pretty. seeing what a bird can do to bigger jet planes. its all what ifs. but what if it happens?
First of all, cyclonite is highly regulated and controlled by the military and the government. Its not as if anyone can get it.
Secondly, if any terrorist were to gain access to it, how they deploy the use of it is extremely minor to the fact that they have it and have detonated it.
It's not as if the terrorist is going to worry about the FAA coming after him nearly as much as the entire Justice Department. Like a terrorist would worry about a $10,000 fine as opposed to the death sentence or a lifetime in prison.
Old 07-03-2014, 07:39 PM
  #74  
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I cannot believe anyone would back the government in banning most things such as Rc etc especially when the Govt is happy to send you to your death in war and conflict just to satisfy some unseen mug's desires.

It is Our (individuals) planet not the bloody governments or a few crones in power.
Guidlines, general rules agreed by involved parties, ok, but who the hell gave anyone permission to impose their views (usually vaguely vieled in whatifs, here say, mystery and half truths anyway?
The world is full of what-ifers and I for one am sick of hearing their relentless butt kissing.
Yes it might be a wasted exersize to note this in forums but at least it allows others to see various points of view.
The power brokers of course hate this as they work best in a Clandestine world.

PS ""WHAT IF"" my comments have a positive and value impact?
Old 07-03-2014, 07:50 PM
  #75  
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Looks like the American Congress gave the FAA all the power they need with the
FAA MODERNIZATION AND REFORM ACT OF 2012
It's all in how the FAA is interpolating it. And that's who gave
them the power to do as they please in the USA.

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