vi360

Ohhhhhh, I didn't think of that, "stop crashing the DF" Now thats a great idea and I will try that. Who knows, that just might be the solution. Hmmmmmm And thank you TheHindmost for the encouragement. back to practice.

SAVS

Being a newbie also I can tell with about another $400-600 in parts I should be a darn good pilot. Is pilot the right word? I do feel bad for those of you who had to pay for your DF because I did not have to. Still not having it available to fly (after crashing) is very painful. I do have the pressure to perform with good video and stills but not $$$.

laceycopter

Will,
I love to watch the crash videos too...I just don't want to star in them...

My Dad started me flyin RC airplanes when I was 7 (he wanted a boy) he let me move on to Heli's when I was about 9-10. But that was after Lots..of hours of practice on a Sim. I'll give you guys the Biggest secret there is to learning how to fly a Heli. Get a Good Sim program FS One, Reflex, or G3....Use it every chance you get. They fly close enough to real to learn how to fly and a crash is just the reset button away.
It was almost 2 months before I had my first crash and it was a mechanical failure (a part broke before the crash..Honest it did!) but I knew how to fly because of the Sim....first few weeks on the Sim..I crashed ALOT!!
I've been flying Heli's for about 6 years and still learn new things everyday.
I fly a lot of Extreme 3D and a I still practice every move for hours on a Sim before going out and trying it on one of my Heli's.

Can't really tell you how long it will take you to get good....everybody is different...But I can tell you the more you practice the better you will get. It's just cheaper and easier to do all the crashing on the Sim before you try it at the field.

As far as AP rc flying goes...I really don't do that much and most of the pictures we take with the rc's are at 50- 150 feet so it's pretty easy to see a 5' heli. (remember my Dad is a real Heli pilot so if we need pics from higher up we use the real thing)

I need to apologize to Sky High to...he was right and I was wrong (Gawd I hate sayin that)..hehe
I took all my video equipment off my DF..I could not get a good stable video...And I realize now Sky was right...You can NOT shoot a stable video from a DF 100 feet up without TI.
I didn't like the way it flew with TI on and never use it. I'm going to reinstall the video on it in the spring and use the TI.
Happy Flyin,
Lacey
P.S. Guys..was just kiddin with ya...Crashing is all part of learning we all do it, just keep practicing and all of a sudden something just clicks and the crashes stop and the fun begins.

TheHindmost

Lacey, thanks for the answers. Everyone I've talked to has recommended using a sim, so that's what I'll do. It's just so much more fun flying the real thing...if I wanted to play a video game, I'd play a video game! But I don't want to break my expensive non-video-game any more, so a sim it is!

As for kidding with us, I'm sure (I hope) everyone knew that! No worries...

Will

Sky High

Carvec is a poplular and reliable solution for autonomous flight but I don't think its onboard components would fit on the DF. I believe it costs around $2K-$3K. There is another company called Tactical Aerospace Group (TAG) that builds custom RC helos for industrial and military applications. They will also build you one if you've got the money. Their prices are similar to the Microdrone depending on the features you want.

www.tacticalaerospacegroup.com

TheHindmost

Yeah, it's too heavy for a DF V...

But maybe...$5K DF X-Pro plus $3K Carvec unit = Microdrone for $8K?

Will

Fesfly

I was just thinking the same thing....hmmm.

Sky High

Another thing to remember is that our four rotor systems are managed differently than main and tail rotor systems with variable pitch. Carvec may not work with our type of helo.

Hindmost, the Microdrone doesn't need Carvec because it already performs those autonomous functions.

TheHindmost

It really shouldn't matter...If it can deal with a contra-rotating design like the WorkFly, it should be easily adaptable to the DF. There's some wiring work (at the least) involved, but there's no fundamental reason it wouldn't work, I don't think...The DF has the same basic control inputs (power, yaw, roll, pitch) as any helo.

Will

Sky High

That's true, I guess a way to look at it is that Carvec is sending those specific commands as a transmitter would and not necessarily controlling the DF as it's own flight board does.

cre8web

i think we are getting somewhere now, this is what i hoped to get from this post, youcan't buy experience, the point you guys mafe about the x-pro having the carvec system = microdrone is a very solid point, but, through a lot of these posts i have read how the df for no apprarant reason has a power failure, or something wierd happens, is the x-pro the same, or do we hear more bad raps on here because it is a forum for people looking for help, I guess if my my df had done what i expected i would not be on here chatting to you guys!

maybe were the unlucky ones, the ones pushing boundaries, or just plain greedy

Keep it going guys and thanx

Marty

TheHindmost

Marty, here's one forum member who has never experienced the strange power loss problem and whose DF has always flown as advertised. I've had no board problems at all, even after a few severe crashes (one from 100 feet or so). My only beef with DFI would have to do with the original rotors and the nylon screws, but that's fairly minor. Anyway, I think you're probably right that forums like these tend to attract people who are having problems and are looking for answers...

I've had my share of crashes for sure, but I came into this with no RC experience at all, so that's to be expected. With not too many hours at it, I'm now a pretty good pilot with TI enabled (which goes to show its value), and I'm slowly getting better at non-TI flight.

Having said all that, the power loss problem is definitely being seen by multiple people in the field and is a real cause for concern. My experience with the DF shows it's probably not a basic design flaw, but is rather a manufacturing defect of some kind. A definitive answer from DFI would be great to have!

Will

Fesfly

I echo Hindmost and agree that most forum posts will be about problems that need fixing as opposed to the good times. When i got mine, not only was I new to the hobby - I had a wiring harness issue and a bad board. I'll tell you it was a heck of a week with this thing, thought I was nuts. Found this forum and seen the great videos and read about the fun people were having...this made me push through the initial issues. Several motor mounts later and other bits and pieces and now I rarely have an issue. That is unless I try to fly over my head at 200 feet. I usually fly about 75 feet or more without Ti ever on and can zip around the house fast enough to catch my jack russell "the real festus " I am concerned about the power loss as well and DFI has SAVS's DF on the way, we'll see what they have to say for his issue. The last time it happened to me I used heat shrink and covered all the motor capacitors completely so no metal is visible - all seem ok so far. I haven't had it out for longer than a battery though.

laceycopter

I've never experienced the strange power loss problem either...only problem I ever had was the wobbles with TI on... So I just stopped using the TI. It was and overcast and the grass was still wet, so that probably caused it. I've had mine for like 8 months now and have never had a crash. I just wear motors out..Mostly!
The DF is a great park flyer...and we have a big indoor skating ring we get to fly in...It's just a lot of fun.
Happy Flyin,
Lacey

TheHindmost

Lacey, TI wobbles are just something a TI pilot has to get used to...Wobbles happen. Once you get over the initial "This should not be happening!" phase, it's easy enough to deal with, especially if you're a good non-TI pilot as you are. My method is to command roll and pitch sufficient enough to basically override TI, and change altitude quickly...I find "the wobbles" happen at certain altitudes, usually fairly low. Once I fly out of them and get higher, I don't usually see them. You also get a feel for what is "acceptable wobble," which you want to fly out of, of course, but which doesn't mean the DF is about to fall out of the sky...so you can do it gently in those cases.

Will

cre8web

good to hear happy results, it is true to say that when times are tough (I've had my savs for 2 months now, still only only 2 flights though as the board stuffed up, and i dont have it back yet) reading the good posts, and the amount there is to learn certainly keeps your head above water, then when you see some of the video's, like scotts etc you think well if they can .....

I cant stress enough how much i appreciate the input from one and all.

Marty

reno.24

To know the price : [link]http://www.workfly.eu/news/flying-saucer.php[/link]

cre8web

wow, they are dreaming, i guess back then, but niw??
I can buy a used robinson r22, and get my lic for less than that and fly and real one.

cheers for looking though

Marty

vi360

Thank you for finding the price reno.24, I will order a few since I crash these copters alot.

TheHindmost

Holy guacamole!!!

Will

flyingdutchie

@cre8web:
As reno said on page 1 of this thread,the brushless x-ufo might be a good candidate too.
And that combined with the carvec system makes it quite an interesting machine,performance AND price wise.
The bl-ufo is supposed to be available for less then 1000 euro (no exact pricing known yet) so by the time you get to the amount you would spend on an X-PRO without any gear,you'd have a brushless quadrotor ,the carvec or any other system and maybe some money left for a decent cam ?
As for the workfly pricing.....I'd rather rent me a real heli for that amount..holy cr@p [X(]

edit:
Found some more flight stabilizing products:

ap2000i
helicommand
If I only knew if these would work on something different then a conventional heli...

laceycopter

I just read the manuals for both of these.
AP2000i First line in the manual :AP-2000i - Advanced CCPM Mixer, Digital Cyclic Ring and Flight Stabiliser
The DF uses 4 main motors and changes the speed to them. This thing hooks to the CCPM mixer swash servo's...That won't work on a DF.
The Helicommand works the same way...so it wouldn't work either ....PLUS..in the manual it says " accurate positioning up to about 10M (30 feet)"..not very useful for AP... it's get you up and hovering on a conventional CCPM Heli.

The DF is setup more like an airplane...NOT a conventional heli...That is why it uses an airplane radio with airplane mixes Not a helicopter radio. In a heli radio you set CCCPM mix, gyro rates, Idle up..etc...The df doesn't work that way.
Happy Flyin,
Lacey

TheHindmost

Yeah, both of those units are trying to do too much: We don't need all that, just basic attitude and power commands. I've just written Carvec to ask if their unit can be configured that way.

Will

flyingdutchie

I wasn't even thinking of using something like that for the DF...first it already has TI,and second,there is no receiver-out to connect such devices.
But for something like the x-ufo bl,which uses a separate receiver,the ap2000i might work (they are used on rc-planes too).

Something different:
When I was browsing through some forums on ap2000i,which works in conjunction with the fma co-pilot sensor(=thermal intelligence)
I read that the sensor pcb was treated with a special coating to prevent interference .I cant find the article now but there was some more interesting stuff .Maybe some info to improve our TI ?

TheHindmost

I got some answers from CARVEC.

First of all, the folks at CARVEC think their system can be adapted to a four-rotor helicopter, but that's not what it's set up for. As with some of the other systems discussed here, it wants to control servos directly. So Sky, you were right on on that one! Not the way I would have designed it, but I guess those single-rotor guys waaayyy outnumber us. :-)

As for pricing, the basic stabilization unit is 2,495 GBP, or a little over $4,800 US at today's conversion rates...If you want GPS position hold and barometric altitude hold, it's another 2.5K GBP. So Microdrone-like stability and autonomy will run almost $10K by itself. These prices aren't way out of line for the capability, I don't think, but they're still high. I'm sure prices will come down as these types of systems become more popular, though.

Will