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Mvvs 160 glow versus gas with tuned pipe and muffler issies

Old 11-29-2007, 09:28 AM
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balsaeater
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Default Mvvs 160 glow versus gas with tuned pipe and muffler issies


I am deciding to buy ethier get a MVVS 160 glow motor or MVVS 160 gasser both using a preferably rear mounted tuned pipe through a muffler similar to this link

ttp://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6660051/anchors_6660051/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#6660051

Both motors are sitting in the LHS at acceptable prices but only include normal mufflers but I can accept side exhast with suitable 100 degree manifold if nessary



I will always be running the motor a tad rich to keep the oil requirement as low as possible but relucant to go too low on oil levels percentages so preference is 18% synthetic in glow version no castor

The MVVS glow are popular motors for zero% nitro as they have a high compession ratio without even skimming that often other motors require


The motor is to fit a semi scale Pitts special type plane to enter and do learner mode pattern flying ( suitable kit or plan to be decided ) but mono wing type less likely for ease of transport issues as I will probably have also a electric version pattern in mono wing but its too expensive for recharging on holidays or visiting other clubs fields and dragging a 2.5KW generatoir onto airliners eeeekkkk

My prefernce is glow if I can get suffient evidence of the the costs are not too excessive in todays prices using zero nitro and 18% synthetic lubrication for its extra power compared to gasser

I would only consider to do gasser if the price of glow looks to be way too expensive or if gasser can really and truly match power of glow on the same size cc weight which I dought and I realy dont want to go to 40cc or 80cc whatever in this time mayby in 2009

Although my local club has no noise issues if its not tooo loud my preference (coming from vitualy all electric background ex mid sized 120 glow motor user ) is to keep noise reduced with lowwer revs largest suitable props and suitable rubber mounting for motor if nessary so it seems logical to have a muffler in front of the tuned pipe but could live with tuned pipe alone if it noise levels would be satifactory low for typical clubs I might visit in Spain or France


Can you indicate the fuel consumtion for glow version on zero nitro and FAI fuel or 18% synthetic and fuel consumpton for gasser and any real first hand experiences with this motor with tuned pipes and ease of tuning and noise issues

18% synthetic zero% is the fuel I use in glows and is the most popular type localy but i can make special orders for FAI 80/20 castor (but its not sure to be any cheaper )if its the only suitable fuel but I realy hate the mess the castor makes compared to pure synthetic

Also it seems looking at the pitures online of the gas version MVVS 160 it seems to be a extra add on convertion kit so does the possibilty exist if I wished in the future if methanol prices get too steep to be able to convert to gasser


I do like the very large glow motors ~25cc used in glider towing in some clubs in other near buy countries where methonal is much cheaper tha my location and some of the motors are ~ twenty years old and still going strong and not keen to involved with these often weaker and puny agricultural motor gas convertion kits out there

I am not really interested to do four strokes for lots of reasons but especial y as most of the cheaper type and even expensive ones without nitro tend to be lacking ommffff and cost to much to buy to get the good makes that realy last donkey years without major servicing

Methanol here localy cost me with 18% synthetic 17 euros ~$25 a gallon IMP from LHS ( ~ $20 a USA gallon )and if I order 45 gallons IMP drum of methanol would reduce to 8 euro a gallon IMP $~12 a gal IMP ( $9 a USA gallon ) for methanol cost making ~12 euros a gallon Imp ~$16 a gal imp ( ~12 a gal USA ) but local storage rates for storage of large quantities of fuel might make fuel cost the same as from LHS

Nitro cost way too much about double the price of the USA so its a non starter for this kind of larger motor

I figure I can afford the 17 Euros a gallon but want to plan as far ahead in case fuel prices change a lot from todays prices

Most half of all the flights will be used to tow up smaller gliders as well as a extra club tow plane to the 100cc gasser so its preferable its not to expensive and it has MAX reserve power possible to get out of trouble and better abilty for motor to suffer least damage from unintended crashes which 2 stokes usualy seem abetter able to do

Sorry for the multi question issues but over the years not keeping abreast of the glow and gasser subject with high comitment to electric dont want to be caught out with out of date info


balsaeater

Old 11-29-2007, 10:25 AM
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DarZeelon
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Default RE: Mvvs 160 glow versus gas with tuned pipe and muffler issies

ORIGINAL: balsaeater

I will always be running the motor a tad rich to keep the oil requirement as low as possible but relucant to go too low on oil levels percentages so preference is 18% synthetic in glow version no castor

The MVVS glow are popular motors for zero% nitro as they have a high compession ratio without even skimming that often other motors require
BE,


MVVS specify 10-12% castor oil and no synthetic oil, for this engine.

More oil will make your engine back-fire and throw/dislodge the prop.


Believe me, you don't want that! Don't use any more than the specified amount of oil! Don't use any synthetic oil!


Can you indicate the fuel consumption for glow version on zero nitro...
About 1 ounce - 35 cc per minute.
Old 11-29-2007, 10:40 AM
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Default RE: Mvvs 160 glow versus gas with tuned pipe and muffler issies

Balsaeater quote:
"I am deciding to buy ethier get a MVVS 160 glow motor or MVVS 160 gasser" Here is something for you to consider about going with gas. How do you transport your planes to your flying field? If you have a van or station wagon, you might not want that smell of gasoline (and the dangerous fumes) in the vehicle with you. If you transport your models in a trailer, then the fumes wouldn't be an issue. MVVS makes great engines. I just wish they were more available in the US.
Regards
JC
"I've got 3-green"
Old 11-29-2007, 02:21 PM
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Default RE: Mvvs 160 glow versus gas with tuned pipe and muffler issies

There have been lot of discusions of gas vs. glow in general.
For me 26cc is too small to "pay for the troubles" of the gas.
Gas seems irreplaceable for much bigger engines, at least
of 50 cc but the best one to start being efficient it seems
to be 80cc. If you get low cost castor oil from some factory
where they use it, the methanol is not more expensive than
gasoline either and then you can forget about ingnition, interferences
smell, and also, fire hazard ! Gasoline fuel is lot more flamable
than Methanol blend with 20% oil. Even at 15 nitro is difficult
to set it on fire, while with gas only one spark and you get it.
I have a bunch of airblowers 28cc and 32cc enignes which I am
converting to glow fuel; surely they will not match the power of
the professional MVVS but with glow they should even deliver
more power than gas. In Giant Scale Racing several fellows
use Zenoah 80cc gas converted to glow for more power.
Old 11-29-2007, 02:32 PM
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rmenke
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Default RE: Mvvs 160 glow versus gas with tuned pipe and muffler issies

BE:

I think the MVVS 160 is also the Elvo 26 in gasser format. These are well made strong running engines. The engine manufacturers recommendations as to oil type and mix should be followed closely with quality stuff, or you will pobably pay a hard education fee in engine maintenance.

The glow engine will have all the power you want for sport, and 3D if you want to go there. The gasser, by compairson is a great running easy starting engine. The power output is considerably lower than the glow, but good for a gasser of this size. In a airframe like the QQ Yak 54 a 73" wing span, the gasser will pull the plane around with authority, and hold it in hover, but barely. A pipe type exhaust system will provide more power than the canaster type, but the install may be a problem for many of the arfs available today. If you want to fly 3D, this gasser is not quite the engine you typically find favored in this type of flying. I think this size and smaller gassers will have a hard time finding acceptance in the 3D crowd, I enjoyed it
Old 11-29-2007, 05:24 PM
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balsaeater
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Default RE: Mvvs 160 glow versus gas with tuned pipe and muffler issies

thanks guys you confirmed for me that my questimates were in line

looks like I should get fairly economic running with glow mayby ~ 2.75 euros ~$3.50 per 20 minute flight WOT at LHS fuel prices and mid gas ~2 euro or $2,75 landing after twenty minutes with half tank and less again with home brew mayby 1.80 euro $2.20

(some of my 90 size electric replacement s are nearly costing that per flight anyway but electric prices are dropping and fuel prices might keep rising so it giff giff and I need one hour and also need a 2.5 KW generator to do 120 sizeplus Lipo replacement models that has to be factored in so for me 90 size is realistic maxuim for electric until mayby ~2009/10 or even up to 2012 when every rental car is a hybrid with 30KW GENERATOR built in as standard )

If it gives me good 3D and hover with strong punch out its worth every penny


I sopose I can live with castor if there is no other working solution in synthetic
often in Spain and France the LHS only stock synthetic fuels which suits most of the smaller motors and wont order in castor fuels for one unknown costomer or stock Methonal neat so I cant arrive with my own castor fuel to mix

SO I WILLL HAVE TO plan ahead more than I would prefer and get the club where i go to to sell me a castor mix as most big clubs have their own castor mixxes to solve that problem

For transport its for inside the car (small compact hatch back 1000cc car)probably on a semi scale Biplane Pitts or Ultimate for compactness and for airliner travel to fly ins whatever

Gas fumes can be a serious issue for both inside the car and for airliner transport in the hold

Unless something else wild come through the glow motor is the purchase in a few weeks copled with it is like ~100 euros ~$130 cheaper than gas version which is some ~6 gallons Imp ~8gal USA fuel or 12 hours flying WOT( up to~24 hours mid gas )say ~18 hours mixxed flying ahead of the game compared to gasser before i start to paying extra premium tate for gas not faxtoring in gas fuel with 3% oil at say to ~8 (~$10 ) to ~9 euro ~$12 per gal IMP (or ~ $9 USA gal) est 3/4onz fuel consumption per minute WOT

2010 probably with euro probably falling back in value against USA $ and gasoline costs rising expect 18% synthetic glow in LHS to hit 25 euro a gal IMP and gasoiline with 3% oil to be closer to 15 euros per gal IMP mayby even 20 euros if oil hits $150 a barrel but I could be wrong the prices of all fuels might fall back down for other reasons as historicaly fuel has a tendency to peak and then go into long periods of declining prices

Any ideas on the DB rates with tuned pipe for the Glow version




Balsaeater

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