Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

I just got this plane in....

This one: [link=http://www.nitroplanes.com/extra330l-3d-plane.html]Extra 330L Click me![/link]

Very interesting!

I did NOT expect the fuselage and wheel pants to be made of heavy plastic.

Not that I find anything wrong with what they did. I have just never seen plastic over ply formers!

The material used however looks like it may hold up better than fiberglass.
The Wheel Pants and Fuselage are THICK, unlike some other plastic ARF pants and parts I have seen from many manufacturers.

The wings, rudder and elevators are all Balsa/Ply.

All surfaces except the rudder are pre-hinged using a top side type hinge often seen on say the Composite-Arf giant scale planes.

The included hardware is pretty good for a plane in this size and price range, and the aluminum pull-pull is a nice touch.

The elevator pushrod is identical to that used in larger CMPPro planes.

I have NO problems getting a 5000mAh battery pack in there, and you can easily get in a 5000mAh 4S through 6S pack.

The plane uses standard size servos all around.

There is a provision for an arming switch it seems.

The entire top quickly pops off at the field, via two easily accessed releases. I would suggest hardening the holes with CA.

The gear look strong and well attached though I will also harden with CA and re-inforce with more epoxy.

The plane appears to be manufactured by CMP, and many of the parts are labeled China Models Pro.

The elevators appear to have been designed to be removable, although the instructions call for you to Epoxy them in place.

The covering and finish is EXCELLENT with not a wrinkle anywhere.

A nice plane overall.

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

Have you flown the plane yet ? It looks awesome and I also got one recently.

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

what's a good motor to use on this plane?

Thanks
John
Nitro Planes

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

For optimum performance a power system capable of sustaining 700 watts or more would be ideal.

A Monster Power .32 or Monster Power .46 would be good matches.

I've taken the Monster Power .25 and run it at 14.8v using a 12x7E APC prop, getting well over 700 watts burst.

I've never had a problem with this motor running hot, though I never fly my planes full throttle constantly.

That indicates to me that the Monster Power .32 using 14.8v and a slightly bigger prop ( 13x6E ) may be about perfect, giving ample thrust with a lighter weight. Couple that with a 60A ESC and a 3800mAh or so 20C pack and you have a good combo.

The Monster Power .46 with a 5S 4000mAh-5000mAh pack would give you more power, but that would be offset in large part by the higher weight.

So somewhere in that range would be ideal... within the .32 - .46 motor equivalents are more or less where you might want to be.

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

Thanks

John
Nitro Planes

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

Opjose, KNG00
Any update? What motor, Lipo and prop ended up in it?

Any pics of mods you have done to it?

This size electric ARFs I think have a big future.

Although I still fly smaller Nitros and larger Gas from time to time, I find I make more flights with the electrics because I can get in 3 quick flights either before work or during lunch just about every day.

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

I've been testing different motor combos ( though I'm pretty happy with the performance of the plane so far ).

I hope to put up pictures and a build log next week or so.

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

Opjose,

How would you compare this plane to maybe something like NitroPlane's YAK-54 outfitted similarly (Electro)?
Flight Characteristics:
Overall Construction:

I have several smaller airplanes, but I'd like to move 'UP' to larger-scale airplanes.
Thanks in Advance.

~Ramius~<br type="_moz" />

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

You stated 'Standard Size Servos'.......<div>My question would be more about their speed and power needed for this type / size of Stunt Plane.</div><div>
</div><div>What would be the more recommended type of servos for a Stunt Plane like this?</div><div>ie: needing fast response-time, and good torque.</div><div>Obviously you wouldn't want to outfit it with a set of featherweight servos.....</div><div>
</div><div>Opjose?</div><div>Anyone?</div><div>
</div><div>Thx</div><div>
</div><div>~ramius~</div>

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

I would doubt you would need or want anything over 30oz/in of torque.

It is only a .25 sized plane, and a standard or mini servo should have more than enough torque to handle the control surfaces even at full deflection.

Metal geared servos are also overkill, so a fast mini or standard sized servo is more than adecuate for speedy response, and for lightness I'd favor the mini servos.

-

You asked about the Yak versus this plane.

This plane is heavier than the Yak because of the all plastic fuselage.

There is less ply in this plane than the Yak.

On both planes I recommend applying epoxy on the gear mounting area ( as with most ARFs ) to strengthen it.

I typically use triangle stock to add more shear strength to the entire gear mounting area.

One caveat...

The rudder area appears to be hollow, and CA hinges are provided for the rudder.

That means there is not a supporting wood structure for the CA hinge to grab onto on the rudder side.

You could insert wood, toothpicks, pin/post type hinges, etc. to take care of this, but everyone should be aware of this oversight.

While the rudder itself is strong, the hinge mounting points ( 2-3 ) need a bit of TLC.


Edit: I found my fear to be unwarranted.

The provided CA hinges will hold onto the hollow rudder just fine provided you get them adecuately soaked during installation.

So put the hinges and rudder in place ( hint, install horns first to make things easier for yourself ), and drip in 5-8 drops of CA onto the hinges.

Once the CA dries it will stop flowing, so put on a sequence of drops, once the CA seems to pool STOP and wait for it to soak in, then apply another drop after a small interval , and repeat until you have put on 5-8 drops or so.

Let the hinges dry completely, move the rudder back and forth, and for piece of mind give it a hearty TUG to check out the bonds.

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

Thanks Opjose; I appreciate all your info on this plane; and outfitting it.<div>I'll be taking your lead on your advice/info as well.</div><div>(Nothing like having a good Wingman, ya'know....)</div><div>
</div><div>The only problem I've ran into thus far is actually locating an available LiPo 'that robust'.</div><div>But,,, I'm in no super hurry either.</div><div>
</div><div>Can't wait to see a collection of pix on how you've outfitted yours.</div><div>
</div><div>~Ramius~ </div>

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

Check your PMs.

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

I have mine flying. Only 3 flights so far as each time I fly, the grass has been so wet at my field that I don't want to fly again and get grassy mud all over it again.

I had a 500Kv 900W motor already and Batteries from my EXI 500 so I decided to use those. That motor and battery is MORE than enough I think for this sized plane. I'm not that experianced at Electric airplane motor sizing but I do like to over power the motor and prop down when needed. My cg is a bit tail heavy so if you get a more powerful motor up front, it won't hurt in my opinion. I did not wish to buy new batteries as I already had 4 of the Turnigy 6S 3000mAh and 2650mAh packs for the helicopter.
The plane is just a tad smaller than a couple planes I have OS 46's in so I think 700W of power should do pretty good. I forgot to measure the current from my power setup again so hopefully I'll post something in the near future.

Initially I used a 13x8 and this morning I used a 14x7. I'm guessing its just over 10K rpms WOT. LOTS of vertical but no need to use WOT for very long except in vertical climbs or your just wasting energy.

I used standard EXI and Tower Pro servos because that is what I had on hand. I also put larger diameter wheels due to the grass I fly on but this time of year, I still hit wet clumps anyway. If you don't put larger wheels w/ this plane, your gonna break the plastic landing gear.

Here are some pics during the build.

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

Yup, I agree completely.

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

I got a new weight scale and weighed the Extra 330L-EP at 5lbs 3oz with NO battery installed.

I have only been able to fly it a couple times since my last post though because our field is really soggy.

-David

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

My plane came out at 5lbs ( 2.268kg ) WITHOUT any battery packs installed.

With a 4S 5000mAh pack it comes in at 6lbs 3oz ( 2.857 kg ) AUW ( all up weight ).

This is not far from the specs.

My plane balances out PERFECTLY with the 5000mAh packs.

I used all of the provided hardware w/o any problems what-so-ever.
The hardware used is pretty good.


Here are shots of my plane with a 5000mAh 4S 14.8v pack installed...

You can see the ESC mounted under the motor on the nose. A separate BEC is installed on the right hand side.

I used the SG5010's ( aka HX5010 ) servos because I always have a number of them on hand. But these are overkill for this plane.




http://image2-6.rcuniverse.com/e1/ga.../lg-193437.jpg

http://image2-6.rcuniverse.com/e1/ga.../lg-193439.jpg

http://image2-6.rcuniverse.com/e1/ga.../lg-193438.jpg

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

Opjose,<div>
</div><div>Very Nice Tidy Neat Job there.</div><div>You pointed out the BEC you installed..... Is this a plain 'BEC', or a UBEC? Explain differences if you have a minute.</div><div>And,, How do You have it wired-in ?</div><div>
</div><div>I've been trying to catch-up on how 3 different types of these are used, but thus far everything presented by 'Sales Desc' just confuses the matter worse.</div><div>
</div><div>Darn Nice Job.... :D  </div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

Thanks.

BTW: I used a UBEC above...


Re: Becs vs Ubecs

Becs ( Battery Eliminator Circuits ) often denote ANALOG battery eliminators.

These are somewhat voltage limited. The higher the voltage from the battery, the fewer servos the BEC can drive.

This is because as the voltage increases the circuitry in the BEC must convert more and more excess curent/voltage to heat to dissipate and lower the output to the required 4.8 or 6 volts.

Becs are often integrated into ESC's ( Electronic Speed Controllers ).

Many RC'rs make the mistake of assuming that the BEC on their ESC will drive multiple servos without problems.

Well at 7.4 volts a BEC may be capable of driving 3-4 servos, but at 11.1 volts on board ( analog ) Becs are only rated for TWO SERVOS AT MOST!


UBecs ( Universal Battery Eliminator Circuits ) use a switching power regulation system. This pulses the power output from the battery into a capacitor for smoothing and filtering.

Since the excess power is NOT dissipated as heat, UBECs can deal with much higher voltages and higher servo current demands w/o problems.

UBecs represent a higher manufacturing cost for ESC producers, so they are rarely ever used in ESC's, and if then only in the higher priced ones.

Since you can purchase UBECs cheaply ( about 9.00 / ea ) it is much less expensive to get ESC's ( particularly the higher power ones ) WITHOUT the BEC/UBEC built in. e.g. an 80 AMP ESC may cost me only 50.00 WITHOUT a UBEC, but to get something equivalent from Castle would cost me over $100.00. So I save well over $40.00 by wiring it up myself.

In the picture above, you can see the red connector on the battery pack.

After Dean's went around suing all of the Asian distributors of Deans clone plugs, so they can maintain their pricing margins... I switched over to the red plugs which now seem to be coming with all of the newer Asian LiPo's. I also made Deans adaptors for use with my older packs and planes.

Closer to the UBec you can see TWO red connectors. ( actually four sets ).

I wired one set into the ESC, then created a short "extension" using heavy guage wire and two sets of the red connectors.

To this short extension cable I wired the UBEC by merely soldering it's red and black leads to the respective positions on one of the red connectors... so one of the "extensions" red connectors has a thick red wire and a thin red wire ( to the Ubec ), and a thick black wire and a thin red wire ( to the Ubec ).

This permits me to later use the UBEC on another plane or with a different ESC without re-wiring everything.


I like these red Pole type connectors as there is no separate purchase of "male" or "female" types as there are with the Deans connectors.

You get two gold plated plugs in each package, and you can wire them up as either male or female, in the red cover.

They are inexpensive, and easy to solder. They also come in the large size you see in the photo for higher amperages, and in a smaller size for up to 40-60 amp circuits.


The ESC I used under the motor has NO on-board BEC so the electronics and servos ( other than the motor ) are being powered by the little UBEC.

The ESC is rated to 80A.

-

I first tested the motor with an 11x7E APC prop. This seemed to only produce about 2.5-3 lbs of thrust or so and around 300-400 watts.

It could not pull the plane out of my hand at full throttle, against gravity... e.g. no 1:1 or greater thrust ratio.

The motor is rated for greater than 900 watts.

I then switched to a 13x8E APC prop.

This seems to produce about 9-12lbs of thrust. At 30% throttle the motor wants to pull the plane out of my hand against gravity...

e.g. 1:1 thrust around 30% throttle.

At full throttle I measured around 900watts @ ~ 60A of output and I create an indoor hurricane with it.

The packs are rated @ 20C for 5000mAh so at most I'm drawing around 15-16C at FULL throttle.

That puts things exactly where I want them, with more than 20% overhead.

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

Opjose,

<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; font-size: medium; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; background-position: initial initial; ">Wow,,,,, Excellent review and Classroom Briefing there. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../lightbulb.gif

This is going to be LOTSA Help for LOTSA folks.

Thanx-Amillion for Your Thorough and Complete rundown on this.http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../thumbs_up.gif

You've actually addressed AND answered SEVERAL questions,,,, All in One Pop.

~Ramius~</div></span>

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

This picture illustrates how I wired another UBEC for Deans connectors...

http://image2-6.rcuniverse.com/e1/ga.../lg-163254.jpg

In this case I wired a male and a female Deans connector back to back with the correct polarity.

This has the metal connectors touching each other and adhering with solder.

To each of the metal connectors ( at the back ) I've also affixed the lead wires from the Ubec.

This makes it possible to put the Ubec "in line" with the battery cable, but the small thin wire is not carrying all of the current from the battery to the ESC.... only the UBEC's own draw runs through the lighter cable.

WIth the red plugs I bascially did the same thing, but because I could not wire the connectors back to back I used heavy gauge wire between the male and female plugs.

The intent is to make the UBEC easily removable or replaceable, and ready to transfer to another plane should I choose to do so.

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

Ah, Okay,,,, I see what you're doing now. Darn good ideas Opjose http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../lightbulb.gif

Thanx-Amillion for all the Help and Extra-Detailed Documentation ....http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...sn/thumbup.gif

~Ramius~<br type="_moz" />

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

Opjose, thx for posting the pics. I did not even think to put the ESC there, that is a much better place than where I put mine which was on the side by one of the exhaust vents that are on the side of the fuse even with the battery. I'll move mine to where you have yours.
I'll also space my motor out a bit like you did and I bet that will place my CG better than were it is now.
I also like your inline deans plug method.

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

I think I'm going to take your advice and increase the wheel diameter.

The included wheels roll fine for asphalt or concrete runways, there is no leeway for running the plane onto regular grass.

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

Did you have to change the Speed controller timing with that motor?

RE: Extra 330L-EP Extreme 3D RC Acrobatic Plane ARF
 

No I did not have to.