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nascar: should toyota be in it?

Old 01-12-2007, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

ford and gm both race cars over seas, do they not?
a VERY good point, i never thought about it like that.
Old 01-12-2007, 11:27 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

Just an FYI.. most if not ALL the fastenters used in your American cars are imported. I know, I work for a fastener distribution company.
Secondly, foreign car manufacturers have been very good to the American worker, what with opening huge assembly plants in the Midwest and West Coast regions.
Thirdly, small foreign cars and small American cars are designed with CRUMPLE ZONES to absorb the impact with that F-150 at 40 mph to save the drivers and passengers lives.
Fourth, Toyota may not have a pushrod V8 engine but that is by design. Pushrod engins have more moving parts, are more costly to produce, more costly to repair, and are traditionally less efficeint than OHV engines. More moving pieces, more thing to fail, lower compression ratios. Oh yeah, the V8 that was in the SHO Taurus, that was a Yamaha V8 engine and was OHV too. Hmm...
Fifth, GM, Ford, Chrysler have been shipping their manufacturing plants out of the US for years, i.e. Mexico, Canada, and communist CHINA. A good portion of domestic cars are acutally foreign, and vice versa.

So, who cares? Let Toyota race. NASCAR has become about the money. The every day Joe can't go to a race anymore, enter a car, and run the race. Entry fees and so on are prohibitive to that. Real racing happens on Saturday nights and Sunday afternoon's at the local dirt tracks and strips. That's where you'll find me.
Old 01-12-2007, 11:45 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

I'm 54 if that tells you anything. I used to go to the local racetracks back in the late`50's with either my parents or grandmother. Yes, she was cool, she'd also take us to the wrestling matches.
Old 01-12-2007, 11:47 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

just some input on ford being built in other countries, they have plants in 26(dont quote that number but it is somewhere around there) different countrys around the world, this makes them having more plants in other countries than in the USA... so really our "american made muscle" is a thing of the past, its now just american owned...
and yes they all do have the option of what engine they would like to run in their car, but thats for the company to decide not the fans...
Old 01-13-2007, 05:25 AM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?


ORIGINAL: smaxx3.3

Did you ever consider all the robots used to make your domestic cars are manufactured in Asia?

I don't understand how you could call all foreign cars junk, many of the best cars are made in other countries.
my moms boyfriend owns a body shop, i see alot of messed up cars. right now he has a corolla with the front end higher then the roof. it ran into the side of a F-150 at 40 mph. you tell me is a car saposed to fold in half like that?
Yes. If the energy of the impact wasn't put into crumpling to person inside would almost certainly have died. Cars have crumple zones built into them to protect the driver.

Also, your foreign junk thing- I haven't seen an american high performance car that could handle around corners as well as any other car from any other nationality. Until your designers get that fixed I'm sticking with a good old Japanese car. And best of all- technically, America made Japan good at car/motorbike making. How's that for ironic?
Old 01-13-2007, 07:35 AM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

Back to topic.....Toyota in Nascar. Sure, why not? Does anyone really perceive them as a threat? Think about it....

Mikey Waltrip... never has been a contender for the cup.
Dale Jarrette.... hasn't been in the running since his last cup.....washed up.
Bill Elliot.... get real, Awesome Bill, from Dawsonville.....is over the Hill.
Dave Blainey.... has he even won a race yet?
Jeremy Mayfeild.... ditto Blaney, and if either has, was there a repeat victory?
Brian Vickers.... one win, if I remember....
A.J. Allmendinger... WHO?


THAT's quite a feild of drivers....yessirree, I'll guarantee... I'll guarantee that when Toyota ponies up some REAL BUCKS and pulls some talent like Earnhardt, Gordon, Johnson, Stewart.....then you might start worrying that the Cup will be heading for the orient. Until then, Toyota is just another "feild filler."
Old 01-13-2007, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

It still does't matter to me what they run,I won't be watching anymore. I like REAL STOCK car racing. Plus, we all know its all about money , and I hate the entertainment world atmosphere that concentrates so much on certain drivers favored by the TV networks and nascar.
So, have at it kiddies,I'll be somewhere else. Jerry
Old 01-13-2007, 10:41 AM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

Gotta do what ya gotta do man, but the good ole days of seeing Tiny Lund and Fire Ball Roberts drive their cars to the track, race, and drive home are over.....and I hate it too.

I'd really enjoy seeing "Stock Car" racing return to it's roots. Not as extreme as you, as I'd allow some engine mods, as long as the block and heads remain OEM castings. Let 'em get all the H.P. out of them they can, but keep 'em on factory rims, and OEM tire sizes. If the car came with 8" wide rubber, race on 8" wide rubber! Transmission and rear ends, must match OEM specs and options for the body style.

Roll cages and fire suppression systems mandatory.

Yadayadayada.....so you can see our likes aren't that different...so long sweetie.

ORIGINAL: swapdaddyxx1

It still does't matter to me what they run,I won't be watching anymore. I like REAL STOCK car racing. Plus, we all know its all about money , and I hate the entertainment world atmosphere that concentrates so much on certain drivers favored by the TV networks and nascar.
So, have at it kiddies,I'll be somewhere else. Jerry
Old 01-13-2007, 04:36 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

i also go to the dirt track, the late models they are all differnet chassis's made by rocket, and masterbuild, and some others. the only thing that is the body and the engine block is from chevy or ford (don't see to many dodges on the dirt), other then that every car is pretty much the same. and toyota got the drivers that won the cup years ago, i don't know why Allmendinger and mayfeild is in the toyota line up. i guess they have to have some young guys, ok enough about the crunch zones and that other stuff, back to nascar please.
Old 01-14-2007, 11:10 AM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

As american cars race in foreign competitions foreign cars should be able to race in american competitions.
Old 01-14-2007, 11:37 AM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

Settle down guys.. it's all in good fun, no flames intended, we all know[8D]

As for Toyota racing in NASCAR, I sow a site in which the organization is called FART ( Fans Against Racing Toyotas). The name alone gave me a good laugh.

Toyota has been in all sorts of racing for some time such as CART and other international races. I think they can get into oval racing with ease and without pirating or reverse engineering GMs (Chevrolet, Pontiac), Fords, Crysler (Dodge). They have a very excellent resarch and development arm and this arm will literally dedicate a whole team just to perfecting their oval track racers (that is, if they already do not have an oval track racer for one of the other international race organizations).

As others have mentioned above, its true that Toyota does not have a production vehicle that uses push rods (I could be wrong, their diesel vehicles that they have in Japan but are not in America might use push rods to actuate the valves). Toyota uses a more direct valve actuiation by way of overhead cams for the purpose of better fuel economy and better power delivery that a single cam push rod cannot. Push rods are very simple valve trains; the only complexity involved is finding the right compromise in the timing profiles since a push rod valve train cannot be varied like overhead cam systems can.

I believe that Toyota can do well in NASCAR, but I personnally do not think they will win much the first few seasons; they will have to learn the intricacies and very fin details that shave off the very precious 0.01seconds from lap times. If they actually learn and master such intricacies and actually start producing winners in their cars, then GM, Ford, and Crysler will also step up and find more tricks and hammer out their own intricacies to stay on top.
Old 01-14-2007, 12:34 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

I thought it was the "great american car chase"? why ruin a good thing? I said no! Why is it that everyone wants to change something that is already great? Our country is going down hill fast because of things just like this. What happened to speaking english in america? Most must be bilingual to exist here now. This is crazy and should be stopped IMO. Speak spanish in mexico or spain.......speak english in america. My grandfather is rolling in his grave I'm sure. He fought in several wars so we could change everything he fought for? I don't get it? Well a lil off topic I guess but it is a topic that irks me a lot. Why does america have to support everyone? They have other countries to support their way of life. Just my opinion but I know there are others who agree. Pretty soon we will have a holiday called "Old America Day" and everyone will eat hot dogs and prarie chicken...lol.
Old 01-14-2007, 01:42 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

I guess the straw that broke the camels back for me, was the new change coming in where all cars have to fit the same template for the bodies. I have put up with nascars screwing around with the rules since the early 70s to favor one manufactorer. I say if a manufactorer can come up,within size and weight constraints that is marketable to the public as a regular production car, designs in engines or body shapes that is superior to the other makers,then they should be able to run it. If you will look back, no problem for GM, but if the other makers do it, the rule changes start flying. If it sounds like I am anti GM,you got it. I come from a family where a number of family members have been envolved in different aspects of the car business for a lot of my lifetime,and have had personal experience with most american makes. IMO, GM for the most part has built the most overrated product in the world. I even tried to sell chebbys my self for about a year after getting out of the army. Did ok with used cars, but hated the new ones, seems I was always being pestered by an unhappy cust when something broke that should not have. Sometimes a customer would try to get a better deal by saying " well,I think I'd rather have a dodge or a plymouth or a ford,or whatever. All the time we both knew he wanted a chebby. You should have seen their faces when,quite honestly, I would come back with" well, you know, I had too". It was hilarious to see their reaction, but didn't sell a lot of chebbys. Jerry
Old 01-14-2007, 02:53 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

LOL where I live chebbys are the way to go if you want to go that is......LOL. 6 feet of snow is Chebby country... I don't really dislike any of them. They all sell what they make and we choose which one to buy eh. On the other hand, I am sorry for bring this off topic again Go Toyota.......lol.
Old 01-14-2007, 11:02 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

For years, racing, especially NASCAR, has produced technology techniques that were carried forth from the race track and into everyday production cars. But in my opinion, it is now the oposite. NASCAR insists on limiting technology with their ruls (the insistance to of using the push rod valve trians, no forced induction such as superchargers and turbochargers, and other technology rules that I admit do not know).

These rules are all great in preserving tradition, but the technologies in the valvetrain and induction and exhaust are not cutting edge anymore due to the constratints.

I'm not saying that new technologies cannot be gained from NASCAR, we can lean about crash mitigation and making cars more survivable especially since NASCAR racers must survive 200MPH crashes. I'm just saying the NASCAR does not have much to contribute anymore to engine technology. Pushrod designs have just about reached their max and the only way to make an engine more potent is to go variable valve timing, variable intake and exhaust runner lengths, etc.

Now, if someone can pull more out of a pushrod design and make it really excell on a naturally aspirated engine, it will be by a means that I, and even many very high paid professional engineers have never thought of before.
Old 01-15-2007, 01:19 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

if we are able to get 850 hp out of a pushrod engine, thats carb'd mind you, imagine what it would be pushing if it were fuel injected.

thats still a lot better than champ car and indy, of which use computerized everything. And their engines have dual overhead cams! Champ car is the only one that puts out more horsepower.

BUT, back to the point i was originally going to make...

Ford's Fusion is a Mazda 6 without the mazda engine or tranny. So technically, its import based, with fords duracrap engines.
Old 01-15-2007, 02:11 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

Yep. With the pushrod thing, there's no reason why the regs shouldn't allow better engines and top speeds, it's just that you need better drivers. Give me a month to learn geared arcing and I'll give one of those things a go around Daytona with vvt, if you want. Hell, I'd get such a rush from that!
Old 01-15-2007, 05:40 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

Nascar wants to make it a sport ware the driver with hte best starting position wins the race. They want better ratings, closer races, and closer finishes. Its all about money
Old 01-15-2007, 05:51 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

Isn't everything all about money any more?
Old 01-15-2007, 06:32 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

Isn't everything all about money any more?
yea
Old 01-17-2007, 12:35 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

No doubt! American cars aren't even necessarily assembled in America any more either.....they're assembled in Canada and Mexico too. Does that mean they are foreign cars? Chevy does it, so does Dodge....maybe they shouldn't be allowed to race in Nascar either.

What about the foreign drivers......Japan, South America, and evn Australia have born and raised drivers that are now, or already have invaded Nascar.....should we ban them too?

It is a GLOBAL PROSPERITY guys, and Nascar is trying to survive. As soon as the engine rules change(and don't think they won't-one day) to allow overhead cam engines, expect to see BMW and Mercedes in Nascar....and expect to see the "CUP" won by a foreign car company.....

Nascar's "pushrod engine" rule is the only rule left actally making this an American sport....
Old 01-17-2007, 01:01 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

NASCAR is spreading its wings. If it has to include what we'd consider foreign-made cars then it's going ot happen whether we like it or not.
They are also going after a more diversified audience and racers as it's not nor ever has been a totally southern sport. They're going Wall Street now and with programs to get other nationalities and ethnic people involved through the diversity programs like what Joe Gibbs Racing has. We've got Indy, Sprint, F-1 and a lot of other drivers moving in. What do they see? More exposure, more money, more seat time, a shot at trying something new?
Manufacturers want their products seen and the old adage of "what wins on Sunday, sells on Monday" is what they're still hoping for. No, I can't run down to my local new car dealer and buy a Dale Jr. Monte yet.
I'm not crazy about the car of the future or whatever they're calling it as it's just another cookie-cutter with different decals slapped on it. No fun there.
Old 01-17-2007, 10:18 PM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

It's good to see NASCAR beginning to diversify. They should; afterall, they cornered just about all of the car racing in America (save for NHRA, which however is drag racing). If the beginning of NASCAR diversifying is allowibng Toyota cars into it instead of being exclusively the American big three, then I'm all for it. I do hope that NASCAR will allow some new technology rules to allow overhead cames and fuel injections as well as electronic variable timing. Racing has so much to offer in these technologies and if NASCAR can help by being a test and proving ground to perfect such technologies, then I'm all for it. Toyota has considerable expertise in variable valve timing by way of overhead cams and BMW actually has a car engine that throttles strictly by variable valve timing. Aside from max HP and speed, these technologies can be perfected on the track for what everbody wants: fuel efficiency.
Old 01-18-2007, 09:03 AM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

Well the WIn on sunday sell on monday aproch is waisted on toyotas part. They do not have a push rod engine, let alon a v8. They don't have a v8 in a car eather if im not mistaken. And as ar as canada and alstrailia being called forien, i think is false. I mean alstrailia is pritty siclude, but it is just like englend ware they are welcomed. But they all speak english. American racers are not going to be happe if soem japinineae guy wins daytona 500 and can't eaven say " Yeah me cew is what got me hear, and wiht out htem i would have nothing" "Thanks to pepsi, chevy, and goodyear"or "i don't deserve this win". No When a japinies guy wins then we will have to have some guy to talk for him or smething. I would love ot see merceadies in there as well as bmw over toyota.

Another thing is that some of the older folks aroun are not to fond about japinies people. After hey come in then wemon will make a big dea about it and so will african americans. There is a reason why there are not any afican americans or wemon in nascar and that is because there aren't anygod drivers Its not a racist thing or sexist remark, its just the truth, if there was then they would be in nascar.

Another thing that bothers me is that japinies people probubly don't care about nascar. Do you think they sit ther and watch nascar in japan? I'll bet teh amount of viewers from japan is minimal, there are pry more from montana then there are from japan.
Old 01-18-2007, 10:03 AM
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Default RE: nascar: should toyota be in it?

ORIGINAL: ScRacing

Well the WIn on sunday sell on monday aproch is waisted on toyotas part. They do not have a push rod engine, let alon a v8. They don't have a v8 in a car eather if im not mistaken. And as ar as canada and alstrailia being called forien, i think is false. I mean alstrailia is pritty siclude, but it is just like englend ware they are welcomed. But they all speak english. American racers are not going to be happe if soem japinineae guy wins daytona 500 and can't eaven say " Yeah me cew is what got me hear, and wiht out htem i would have nothing" "Thanks to pepsi, chevy, and goodyear"or "i don't deserve this win". No When a japinies guy wins then we will have to have some guy to talk for him or smething. I would love ot see merceadies in there as well as bmw over toyota.

Another thing is that some of the older folks aroun are not to fond about japinies people. After hey come in then wemon will make a big dea about it and so will african americans. There is a reason why there are not any afican americans or wemon in nascar and that is because there aren't anygod drivers Its not a racist thing or sexist remark, its just the truth, if there was then they would be in nascar.

Another thing that bothers me is that japinies people probubly don't care about nascar. Do you think they sit ther and watch nascar in japan? I'll bet teh amount of viewers from japan is minimal, there are pry more from montana then there are from japan.
Wow, YOUR complaining about Japanese' people's english, did you ever check yours lately? At least they have an excuse from not living in the country; You live in Montana....

As for Japanese caring about NASCAR...wouldn't they need a reason to, If Japan is not in it why would they be interested...

Saying there are no good black or women drivers is the same reason not every good basketball player is in the NBA. Millions have talent, it's not all been discovered.

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