nrthwing

Gentlemen, I have been there done that! In the last five years I have spent thousands of dollars on electric pattern planes, helis, sport planes, and alike. I bought into all the glow mess, noise issues, and other crap that persuaded me to "go electric". After starring at my watch during the entire flight to make sure I wasn't overstressing the battery and realizing ONE 40 size battery cost more that a 40 size glow engine I said enough is enough!

It just wasn't worth the time or money for me. When I want to fly I want to fly, not wait for batteries to recharge. Regarding the goo from a glow engine. It is a mess, however this is a hobby! No I would not want to wipe it off 8 hours a day but as a hobby it's not so bad. I route the exhaust out the bottom so it's really not a big deal.

To each his own. I am currently building an Edge 54T with a FX90 and A GP Venus II with an OS 120 surpass.
I do still have a Brio, Tuff-E, and Stryker for convience, however when I want several back to back long flights I go glow.

Mike

Wild Foamy

well, i personally think its all this technology

Brushless motors, LiPo systems, auto gadgets and micro whatsits, this means park flyers and such may be coming more popular as they are easier to build and you can fly them pretty much anywere

fcomer84

Piston powered planes (and turbines for our deep pocket brothers) are the essence of our hobby. The last time I went to the airport, I failed to see the electric 737's take off and land.
A recent trip to Florida revealed black smoke trails coming from the F-16's at Tyndall AFB.
I want realism, noise, the wonderful smell of bean oil and nitro burning, I want to cuss when the engine will not start, and marvel at internal combustion and the things it provides including my 84 mile round trip to the club field.
Fuel for flying...............Electricity for trains! That is the natural order of things.

VictoryRoll-91

I fly all electrics, and I usually go to a place by my house that was once a middle school, it got knocked down, MASSIVE flying area. I have two electrics that are 40" and 43" and I can comfortably fly them there. I recently setup a 3d foamy that I can fly a half a block away at the El. School. I love to be able to do this! Electric is coming, and theres no stopping it.

Kevinator9

Some guy at my club has NZD$500 battery! Nuts! I think electrics are just for begginers getting into the hobby to give them a taste. No point in buying a nitro chopper and smashing it up or not liking it.

joeman11

My Feedback: (6)

I believe most of the electric models are most cost efficient for the park fliers. Not to replace a glow model, it's just too expensive to justify the end result. I'm building a gp tutor, and for christmas, I plan on getting a gws estarter and a gp rv-4. I have a nice park, with a soccer field and a large baseball field with some extra room. I love the smaller models. Sure, there's the wind factor, but all together, they are cheap, small, and fun to fly, even though there isn't a smoke trail behind it, included with a high pitch whine. Like I said, the electric models should stick to smaller, park fliers, not the huge, gas/electric converted ones with an $800 power system, it's just rediculus. Just my views, no one elses, Joe

flyingace451

Personally all I fly is electric. I feel that electric power is good for any 3D planes under 3 pounds (48oz) in weight and good for just regular planes under 5 pounds (80oz) in weight. Anything after that and you risk a huge amount of money for something that has less power than glow/gas, as some of you have found out.

I love electrics. The decent ones fly like their big 3D glow brothers but they cost so much less and take only a couple of hours to build instead of days. Sure they still have enough power to sever a finger completely, but they are quieter and far easier to maintain. I think that the electric change is for the better.

Tom Dooley Ole

I personally fly both and have no real preference. I love the features of both. I don't mind spending money foolishly on this hobby. As a matter of fact that is what I'm best at. I like what they both have to offer and will always support both. I can't fly nitro's indoors when there are 50mph winds for a week straight. I like the option to do either. The weather usually decides for me. By no means are electrics in general newbie toys. These can be pretty tricky to fly.

Stickbuilder

Looks like it all comes down to personal choice. I choose not to go with the electrics. My choice. You choose to go with them. Your choice. I play golf, my choice, you fish, your choice. It's a hobby. Just don't try to force me to enjoy the part of it that you like. If you like it, good for you. If you don't like it, again, good for you. It's just a shame that lines are being drawn.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Daniel-EL

My Feedback: (9)

I knew this post would bring all the nitwatts out of the woodwork. Nice bait, icrashbipes.[>:]

sscherin

My Feedback: (1)

I'd like to try electric but I'm having a hard time getting over the startup cost. vs just sticking with glow motors.

GWS has that cool little lighting out now with brushless motors for $80.. I thought Cool! I'll order one right now!

Then I started adding things up.. 2 ESC's $35. 2100 3s Lipo $75, 5 micro servos $75, micro Rx $70

I'm up to $300 and I don't even have a charger or a spare battery yet.. When I'm all done it's up to $425

Maybe I'm having a hard time getting over my existing supply of standard servos and equipment..

For the same $425 I could order a Nitro Models 90" P-38 and 2 tower .75 glow motors.

Somehow I can't convince that wife that $200 (lipos and charger) of that is good for any future electric.
She'll just point to my Blade CP I never fly because it's always to windy around here to fly the thing.

Where am I going with this? Nowhere I guess.. I'd like to try electrics but I'm unwilling to buy more support equipment right now.

Super Sabre

I fly both. Electric fuel for the park, and liquid fuel for the club. No need to criticize someone else's flying preferences as far as I'm concerned. Electric parkflyers have brought so many new people into the hobby, in the long run we all benefit by more items being manufactured, as well as lower costs. I read somewhere that Tower Hobbies reported that more than 50% of their R/C sales were electric in 2005. I have no way to confirm this information.

UkerDuker

My Feedback: (3)

Somehow I feel some "slight of hand" when it comes to electrics. Allow me to first say, you fly what you fly. If you prefer one aspect (gas, glow, or electric) then this is your choice. Lately, my sale fliers from Tower and H9 have more electric planes than glow. I prefer a glow engine to anything else. THis is my choice and I recognize this. I do feel that electrics have been a huge "push" lately. I could be wrong, but judging from the advertising, I might be spot-on.

Personally, I am sticking with glow. Everyone has reasons to justify their positions, but it is a personal opinion. I'm not going out to buy all new electric motors, speed controllers, and associated batteries, plus the assocaited chargers. It would be financially impractical. I enjoy this hobby as well as the next guy, but I selected one form of propulsion, and I will live with this choice.

I used to bag on guys who only flew ARFs. Then I realized than we are all doing the same thing. We fly what we can fly, we build what we can build. I had an honest change of heart.

As for gas, glow or electric, choose what you like. I use what I prefer. As for the distributors, they will push whatever they can to make the bottom line, MONEY!. I just wish all aspects of this hobby would get equal representation.

Mike

Big_Bird

My Feedback: (1)

Why? What ever is hottest at the time gets the most play. It's the nature of the hobby. Why should manufacturers spend their limited advertising dollars on planes that are not selling. Electric is hot. I fly 90% giant scale and 10% electric.

Stickbuilder

It's a shame that someone moved this discussion to this forum. It's kind of like they wanted to hide it.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Big_Bird

My Feedback: (1)

Bill, you are right, I thought that this thread was originally in the Clubhouse.

Giant scale is still my passion but I do love my electrics. I have a small park next to my house where I fly them. Somehow I don't think large electrics will ever be very popular due to the exponential cost curve.

My latest little one. 5 oz all up with rudder and elevator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eQygzG-pIQ

skyraider71

I model on a very tight budget. Electrics and large scale
gassers just don't work for me. For the price of a decent
electric power system, I can build an entire glow powered
model! For the cost of a 26cc gas engine, I can build an
entire .46 glow model. I believe that the .40-.46 size class
gives you the most airplane for the money! I believe that
the reason that the hobby industry is pushing electrics is
that the profit margins are higher for it, same thing for the
gassers.
I am getting tired of picking up a r/c mag and seeing
nothing of interest to the average sport flyer! Do I want to
see another over-priced electric or giant scale Yak? NO!
Damn I miss RCM!
For me, part of the appeal of the hobby is the engines.
The fact that I fly miniature aircraft with real working
engines is the best part of it.

Big_Bird

My Feedback: (1)

I'm sure your opinion is shared by many. I understand that you miss RCM but consider this, advertising money is spent where the interest is. At this time, it is definitely electrics. I think that if RCM were alive and well then it would follow the trend in advertising and articles that all of the rest are doing or it would perish.

I think what you are really saying is that you wish RC modeling was the way it was 10 or 15 years ago. Trust me, RC will continue to evolve but it will never return to the old days. It can't. The "electric cat" is out of the bag. There will be the size of planes and engines that you enjoy for many years to come. If the magazines no longer appeal to you then RC Universe should have what you want. As I see it Model Aviation still has a pretty good variety of articles.

As long as I can still fly something, I'm happy.

804

My Feedback: (1)

What a lot of people don't take into account when comparing elec. vs glow, is glow fuel cost vs. battery cost.
Using an Extreme Flight 58" Extra:

Saito .82= $254.99
Torque 4014-570 motor=104.95 + Airboss 80 amp ESC=129.95=$234.49 (less 10% if bought together)

Elec is cheaper.

Glow fuel: Cool power 20%= $20/gal buying by the case.
12 oz. tank=approx. 11 flights per gallon.
9 gal = 99 flights=$180.00

Thunder Power Battery,4-cell,3850mah=179.95.
So you pay for the battery in 99 flights, and if you take care of the batt, it will last longer than that.

I'm comparing top quality glow vs. top Elec.

You can find much cheaper elec. components now, to compare to .46 glow.

The major difference, in reality, is buying a charger for the larger li-po batteries.

skyraider71

My response to big bird: I enjoy flying proven designs with .46 2-stroke power. These models fit
my budget, workshop, and vehicle perfectly. I'm getting the most from what's avalible to me.
Stop by the L.R.C.C. club field, I'll be the guy wringing out a Somethin' Extra with a big grin on
his face!

My response to 804: Wildcat 15% $15.50 per gal $13. through the club. For the price of your
battery, I get fuel for two years!

804

My Feedback: (1)

My example used one of the most expensive batteries. As I said in my post, there are less expensive batts and components to compare favorably to .46 glow.

If you don't want to try electric simply because you don't want to, then say so. But you can't use the cost excuse, at least up to the size of plane you're talking about.

The point of my post was to compare costs, not talk anyone into elec. flying. I fly glow, gas, and electrics myself.

skyraider71

I guess you're right, I don't want to switch. There are good reasons to fly electrics, there are also good reasons
not to. The glow models I fly provide great perfomance, and are fun to fly. Two stroke power is simple, and
cost effective. Kit building spreads the cost of the model over time, and I get to pick the colors. That is how I get
the most out of a tight modeling budget, and have fun doing it!

sscherin

My Feedback: (1)

804..

Yes your straight up numbers do show a savings but you forgot to buy the 2nd battery so you can fly more than 1 flight an hour.

Also you picked the smallest recommended battery for the application. The recommended setup for a 3D High performance plane is a 5S 3800-5000mah 20-25c
I think we will all agree that an Extra is a High Performance Plane and would do just about anything with a Saito 82 on the nose.
You said Top quality so I'm holding you to it. Even the Extreme Flight combo includes a 25C 5S 3700 http://www.extremeflightrc.com/html/58extra.html

Lets also talk flight time.. Most Saito FA-82s get 8-10 minutes on an 8oz tank..
you quoted a 12oz tank.. so about 12 min flying time or more..

Your battery with an average load of 45A (hey I pulled it form the listing for your motor as the max efficiency current)
and the 3850mah battery will run about 5-6 minutes
Advantage Saito.. more than double the flight time..


So lets shift to the high end battery and compare.
I'll pick the Thunderpower Extreme V2 25c 5S 5000mah battery.
it'll take a 125A load.. plenty of headroom for those 80A bursts.

Flight time @ 45A .. 6-7 minutes (still around half the glow flight times)

How about weight?
The saito is 16oz plus 7oz of fuel so 23oz takeoff weight..

The Electric is 9.8z ounces plus your 4s 3850 at 17.5 oz for 27.3oz take off weight.
the 5S 5000mah pushes that to 30.8 ounces almost a 1/2 a pound more.. almost a full pound when landing on an empty tank.

Now lets go back to cost..

You called a 12oz tank for the Saito.. but can only get 1/2 the flight time so I'm cutting that back to 8oz pr flight to be fair

Thats 16 flights pr gallon. 6 gallons will get you 96 flights. for $120
Your Lipo is $179 and you still fall short 2-3 min pr flight

The recommended 5S 3850 is $214.. about 11 gallons of fuel or 176 flights

My Lipo choice is the 5S 5000 at $289
That would get you 14 gallons of fuel and 224 flights while still flying longer than the lipo setup and 1/2 pound less weight.
That would be 3 YEARS of fuel for me and spent up front.

The V2 line can charge at 3C so we are still looking at 25 minute charge times..

Don't get me wrong.. I like electrics. I just can't justify the cost for .40 size and up yet.

Specs for your motor from http://www.3dhobbyshop.com/detail.aspx?ID=2103



TORQUE Revolution 4014T-570 Brushless Outrunner Motor

Specs:

14 Turn, 570 Kv

Weight: 280g

80 Amps Burst current (20 sec)

85% Max efficiency

45 Max efficiency Current

6mm shaft diameter

Includes back mount and 2 prop adaptors.

The Torque Revolution 4014-T570 brushless outrunner is a 5S powerhouse! Capable of 80A burst current while maintaining very acceptable temperature, the Torque Revolution will revolutionize .40-.60 sized electric aircraft conversions.

Recommended setups:

Sport flying - .40-.50 sized warbirds and pattern aircraft. .40-.60-sized trainers and sport planes. Use on 4S 3700-5000mah 20C cells w/ 13x10, 14x10, 15x8 for good power similar to glow. Use on 5S 3400-4400 20C or 5S 4200-5000 15Cw/ 12x10, 13x10, 12x12 for excellent power with unlimited vertical and high speed.

3D Flying - For .40-.60 sized 3D aircraft. Use with 4S 3700-5000mah20C and 16x8 for approx 850-900W at 60-65A. Use with 5S 3400-3700 20C and APC E 14x7 or XOAR wood 14x7 for 1100W at approx 60-65A. Use with 5S 3850-5000 20-25C and APC 15x7 E or XOAR 15X8E for 1250-1400W at approx 75-80A (ALWAYS verify current draw with your own measuring equipment on your battery packs. Prop down in diamter as necessary to achieve desired amp draw.) 75-80A setup recommended only for 3D flight where full throttle is used in bursts, not sustained for the entire flight.

Weighing several ounces less than conventional brushless motors for .40-.60 sized glow conversions, the Torque Revolution will help you lighten your aircraft while obtaining more power without loss of flight time. Use with ESCs of 80A current capability or higher.

skyraider71

I think sscherin's coments hold water. I still say strap on a two stroke and
go fly! My choice from Extreme flight would be the profile Yak. At 4.25 pounds,
my AX .46 should fly it well.
Back to the R/C mags: Fly R/C Aug. 2008 has a good mix of kit reviews, even
an autogyro. Good issue. Both Fly R/C, and MAN have been doing some good
engine reviews lately.

mtwister

I think the reason electrics have progressed so much is because any moron can plug in an esc and fly. Yet it takes skill and dedication to tune a glow or gas powered model, and as we all know, the world is getting more and more lazy by the day.