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Sig Li'l Rascal

Old 02-24-2004, 06:43 PM
  #26  
FREEBIRD
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal

I'm using the 7X5 prop and a 1200 Kokam Lipo 2 cell, doesn't light the world on fire, but it's a nice stable flyer. You have to be attentive, but I can land it in a 20 ft. space no problem. Very lightweight with the lipo cells. That Baby Bee sounds interesting too.
Old 02-24-2004, 11:23 PM
  #27  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal

I flew mine a few times over the weekend and I added a 1/16 shim under the trailing edge and flew much better. I'm going to replace the stock prop and go with a Li-Po pack next. It is a quick ittle bugger and does a 15' loop, the roll was a little scary.
Old 02-28-2004, 09:05 PM
  #28  
Den B
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal

Well I had held back posting on this plane till now , I did all the research I could to figure out why they do not fly well stock.
My wife gave me one for Xmas and promptly got the Batts esc and sevos in it and gave it a test crash or three.
Ballance was right on Cells were cycled and surface setting were correct , checked X three before I tried to fly it AND no wind.
Well SNAP goes the Rascal on the first try! and try two and three with any controll input SNAP Roll crash.
So what to do beside read all I could ask what others did to fix it enough to fly ?Measure some stuff!

Lets see on mine

Horizontal stab > 4 Deg negative Hmm?
Wing > 1.5 Deg Positive Hmmm ?
Engine down thrust Lots I didn't measure this one
Wing tips Had wash IN!

Add this all up with the Factotry motor/prop and Batt in the directions 7C 300Mha NMH and there was no way "mine" would fly well if at all.

The LHS guys were finding the same as others did, so on thier quest they built one to test and try different setups .
They set one up as stock as possible with:
Adjustable horiszontal stab
Shimm for the TE of the wing
Several different batteries
Several different CG locations
They settled with just the wing shim @about 3/32" under the TE and it flys >still snappy but flys better stock.

Well mine needed to be fixed or hung on the wall so if you want it to fly well these are the Mods I did to get mine to go.

I dropped the LE of the wing 1/16" maybe a little more to get it as close to "0"Deg incidense as I could next was the Hor stab took out 3/32" @ the back of the stab deck to get it to "0" Deg .
For a new power plant I put in and Axi 2208/26 with 7/5 APC E prop TP 1320 2cell pack.
I also took the wash IN out and added some wash OUT but it is hard to say if it will stay because of the sheeting goes all the way around the wing, time will tell if stays put.

All up weight of mine is 9.5 oz after all the Mods, it was 9.1 before any changes w/ a 7 Cell pack.

Today was the maiden 10 to 15mph winds clear

IT FLYS well
No snaps at all
tight turns no problem
loops tightly
But it is a rocket with the motor setup and is not a plane you would start with "Beginners" or relax just floating around with either , it won't.

Hope this helps with some problems that should not be there but are with some of these , it seems some fly well with just a prop change >7/5 and OR 8Cell upgrade mine would not.


Den
Old 03-08-2004, 12:34 AM
  #29  
FletchNJ
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

Well I finally put my Lil' Rascal up in the air today, factory stock except for the beefed up gear mount. First flight went well, the breeze tossed it about a bit, but not enough to cause problems. Landed with a soft ground loop in the grass due to those damn wheel pants. It's a shame they look so good on the bird! I guess they are the next to get replaced.

Anyway on the second flight, I did 2 patterns, and on the downwind leg second time around, the wing tossed it to the right and I over compensated to the left.

ROLL, SNAP, LAWN DART from about 30 feet. [:@]

The wing bolt snapped and popped off as designed, the battery popped out, taking the lower fuse with it, and the forward wing mount decided to part ways with the fuse, and the prop snapped. Sounds like a lot, bit after an hour in the shop, it was patched, recovered, and ready to go. I saw this thread earlier, and decided to make the wing modification tonight, since I am short of a replacement prop and can't fly for a few days anyway.

The main question I had, was how you attached the add on piece? Did you bond it to the wing, and then cover it, or just let the covering hold it in place? I have my mods taped on, and was going to give it a test flight before I made any changes that were permanent. I am also upgrading to a 7x6 prop with the stock motor and gearbox.
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Old 03-08-2004, 08:41 AM
  #30  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

Hello, FletchNJ:

I am the Sig owner who modified my wing. Like you, I used tape to hold the wing extensions on for a one or two test flights. When I noticed how well it worked I then glued the wing extensions to the wing and covered. I just happened to have some white Monokote that matched perfectly.

It made it big difference in stability and quicker take-offs and slower, more controlled landings. I also went to a larger prop.




ORIGINAL: FletchNJ

<snip>

The main question I had, was how you attached the add on piece? Did you bond it to the wing, and then cover it, or just let the covering hold it in place? I have my mods taped on, and was going to give it a test flight before I made any changes that were permanent. I am also upgrading to a 7x6 prop with the stock motor and gearbox.
Old 03-08-2004, 05:29 PM
  #31  
FletchNJ
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

Great! Thanks. We got a douse of snow today, but as soon as it clears up, and Tower delivers my 7x6 props, back in the ait I go. I think I'll stick with the tape for a few test flights, just to make sure I don't need any more mods. I matched up to your pictures fairly well by eye I think.

Thanks for the reply!
Old 03-08-2004, 11:07 PM
  #32  
FletchNJ
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

Well I decided not to wait and went ahead and made the mods. I trimmed the factory covering back 1/16" either side of the TE and spot glued the TE extenders in place. A little MonoKote, and viola! Now we'll see how she does in the air,
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Old 03-08-2004, 11:28 PM
  #33  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

Looks like a skillfull job, FletchNJ.

You will notice that the plane is more stable at low speeds...especially when landing. It will take off after a shorter run up, too. The plane is still going to be pretty "quick" and landings will still be a little hot...but it will be easier to flare the plane just before touchdown with the modified wing.

Those original tapered wing tips are ok on the larger versions of the Rascal where there is much more wing area inboard..but on this mini-version, they just don't offer the needed stability.

The plane is fun to fly but it is also fragile and will not hold up well to hard landings.

The plane looks great in the air, and the red and white coloring makes it highly visible...you'll appreciate that at height. Some big black squares on the wing bottoms will help determine position, if you chose to do that.

Good luck!




ORIGINAL: FletchNJ

Well I decided not to wait and went ahead and made the mods. I trimmed the factory covering back 1/16" either side of the TE and spot glued the TE extenders in place. A little MonoKote, and viola! Now we'll see how she does in the air,
Old 03-09-2004, 08:41 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

Thanks for the compliment. I am getting better at building, than I am at flying!

Installed a 7x5 APC prop today. Whata huge difference in thrust! It was almost ready to fly right out of my hand! With a littel wind, I'll be doing Harier TO's! Or would that be considered a ROH?

Great modification, it's much appreciated.
Old 04-02-2004, 10:55 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

You guys are making me think awfully hard about rather to buy this kit or not. On one hand, I have no intention of leaving it stock, on the other I don't want a flying nightmare (like the Ace pacer that I finally stomped in frustration).

My plans are to create a small high wing areobat (think Citabria), that I can carry around on my travels.

I wonder if any of you have tried knocking the wing flat and adding Ailerons. That is my basic plan. I was planning on going with the stock motor till it quits, then going brushless with one of the rotating cans. (I like the little Nippy's, I run an 11-7 APC SF on an 05/08 and am nearly verticle with a 10 Oz Flying Styro Strega). I think I could correct the incidence problems during assembly. Very glad to hear about this now...the easy way.

I was attracted to the plane because of its beauty and the higher wing loading. It's always windy around here, so I saw the high wing load as a benefit.

I've seen several posts about the "weak structure". Has anyone tried the light weight glass and poly-crylic route to add strength.

My hobby shop has the blue one in stock, but I want red, so I await Monday's shipment.

Any input would be appreciated.
Old 04-03-2004, 08:58 AM
  #36  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

Gentlemen,

I was looking around for articles on washout / washin and stumbled across a thread here on RCU. The entire thread can be found here at [link=http://Washout at RCU]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Wing_sweep_and_washout/m_1563943/tm.htm [/link]

Here is the excerpt that caught my eye, as it may help explain why the lil rascal is so sensative. Yaw coupling on a rudder plane?, yeah I would say thats likely.

HM

Excerpt:

The flexing of the wing may indeed have some effect on the stall pattern at high g stalls. However your success may have more to do with your flying technique than wing design. Even a wing that tends to stall near the tips first will not drop a wing if the stall is symmetrical. Yaw at the moment of stall is the primary reason for the sudden wing drop that is usually described as tip stall. But any wing will do this if the stall is accompanied by enough yaw. If you are consistent making coordinated turns, tip stall isn’t likely to be a problem.
Old 04-03-2004, 11:06 AM
  #37  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

I do not have one yet, but have heard nothing but horror stories from club members that do have the Lil Rascal. It's a shame that Sig could not produce a product like its larger counterpart. For the price you pay for this plane and the time and money you have to spend on the mods, I would rather put my money into something that works out of the box. Seems like Sig did not do enough field testing on this little guy. I think I'll wait until they get it right.
Old 04-13-2004, 11:56 AM
  #38  
Ray 67
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal

John,

I once owned an original Top Flite Rascal and flew it with an .010. How did you get a kit? They are no longer available from Top Flite. I have the plan, but it lacks enough information to build a wing. I am really interested in building one of the originals.

Thanks for any assistance,

Ray Ackenhausen AMA 22017
Old 04-13-2004, 11:58 AM
  #39  
Ray 67
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

A question for the group. What is the width of the Sig Lil Rascal at the firewall? Thanks for any assistance.

Ray 67
Old 04-13-2004, 03:18 PM
  #40  
john 8750
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal

ORIGINAL: Ray 67

John,

I once owned an original Top Flite Rascal and flew it with an .010. How did you get a kit? They are no longer available from Top Flite. I have the plan, but it lacks enough information to build a wing. I am really interested in building one of the originals.

Thanks for any assistance,

Ray Ackenhausen AMA 22017


No problem Ray. I have all the patterens and would be happy to send you a copy, and to anyone else who wants it.
E- mail me your address at [email protected]
I built a 36" model and like it much better.
Get back to me.
Old 04-17-2004, 12:12 AM
  #41  
Merlin1205
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal

Well Im another unhappy Lil Rascal owner....Real Unhappy
I wrote Sig an email and it seems They have found the problem
Number one... after 25+ years of flying, I dont know how to fly....LOL
Number 2........ I didn't read the manual carefuly enough
Well that certainly explains the problem for me.....NOT

Yes I was very upset when I sent the email and in retrospect I
probably should have slept on it and calmed down first But it
still seems like he got a little personal........ See response below


Tim Hudson If I ain't Flyin......I must be Dying



Dear Mr. Hudson,
First, I apologize for the late response to your message. It was forwarded to my PC and I have been out of the country. I've now returned and am trying hard to catch up on my e-mail messages.

To preface this message, I'm sincerely sorry that you will no longer be purchasing SIG products because of this one incident. I am also sorry that you chose to approach us in the way you did with your problem. Let's face it, you pretty much burned any bridges to us offering you assistance. I am also sorry that you will not be purchasing the Mayhem kit. It's truly a great airplane and is also a 3-D model, in the hands of a 3-D pilot. Finally, since it was I who designed the Lil' Rascal - the "piece of junk" referred to in your message - it is best that I respond to your message.

I'm truly sorry that you had a bad experience with your Lil' Rascal ARF kit, that was certainly not our intention. However, it is strange that we continue to sell so many of these kits, quite literally without problems, to customers that are very pleased with their fit, finish and performance. If there was some kind of problem with YOUR particular kit, then we would have been more than happy to rectify the problem as quickly as possible. But since you are no longer a customer, that option is not available. From what I read in your message, you literally tip-stalled your airplane on approach and it crashed. Did you not read the part of the manual that suggests you do stall tests at recoverable altitutdes? Seems to me that if you've been flying since the "early 70's" you would have known that this was standard procedure for any airplane, especially a new, unknown model.

Regarding our advertising for this model. I do not know what you read, but the only ad ever published for this model indicates that it is a quick and agile model, capable of typical 3-channel aerobatics. No where do we indicate, intimate or state that it is for a beginner - it is not. This specific statement "not for beginners" is also clearly stated in the opening text of the assembly manual - maybe you missed it.

Whatever other model aircraft companies that you decide to do business with in the future, please do yourself a favor and try to give them an open door to assisting you with anything that you might find wrong with their products. You'd be amazed at how much help you generally will receive. Good luck.
Scott Christensen
SIG Mfg. Co., Inc.
Old 04-17-2004, 12:25 AM
  #42  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

Oh and here is a copy of my email that I sent to Sig
I didnt think it was that bad But I guess I insulted the designer

Tim Hudson If I ain't Flyin.....I must be Dyin

Dear Sir,

I am writing to let you know how terribly disappointed I am in your Lil Rascal ARF. I have been flying R/C aircraft since the early 70's and I have always used and trusted your products. I equipped it as you recommended so I'm sure its not a problem with the wrong type of servos, battery, esc, etc. I did have to do some work on the wing saddle as the wing was not parallel with the stab. When I flew it for the first time I noticed the gearbox you have selected is very noisy, sounds like a meatgrinder. I went ahead and launched and flew for about 4 minutes or so. I then went to land and when I turned on final it tip stalled from about 30ft up. Luckily it fell into a bunch of high weeds and didn't do much damage. Ripped the landing gear out. When I looked a little closer I found washin in both halves of the wing, Stab set at -1 and wing set at +4. Why would you risk such a good reputation by putting something like this out to the public?
I had been eyeing your new Mayhem 3D flyer but after this last experience I don't feel as If I can trust your products anymore. Bottom line after 30 years I will not be buying anymore Sig products. Why would you put out this piece of junk in the first place? Did you ever test any of them? I find it hard to believe that you didn't notice any of this. Oh and you might want to change your ad for this plane as there is no beginner that could ever hope to fly this model successfully.


Sincerely,

Tim Hudson
Old 04-17-2004, 09:51 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

I dunno Tim, you were alittle harsh. I had problems with my Lil Rascal and I sent a "nice" email to Sig and they sent me a new plane the next day. I think that's pretty good customer service. Scott is right though, no where do they state this plane is for beginners. I've learned how to fly my Rascal and I think it's alot of fun. All I did is add a 1/16" shim under the trail edge of the wing and it made a big difference. One thing I have learned is if your having a problem with a product and you approach the manufacturer with respect you'll get good results.
Old 04-17-2004, 11:01 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

I have been eyeing this model because I want a three channel "old timer" model for lazy flying. After reading some of these posts, I am also wondering if the Sparky 400 is a good model. Can someone give me some ideas about this model.
Old 04-18-2004, 01:54 AM
  #45  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

The Rascal is an old timer. It must have a light wing loading to fly slow. The wing used is thin, needs to be thicker. If you keep the air speed up a little it flyes good.
Sig's Lil Rascal is about 4 ounces too heavy.
Try about a 36" old timer re-kit. Like the play boy or Miss America.
Keep it about 9 ounces and use a GWS geared motor and 8" prop. They have a great selection.
[8D]
Old 04-23-2004, 05:22 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

I have heard nothing but horror stories about this airplane but I have one anyway. I have had it since the first of the year but did not have the time to put it together untill this past week. And after reading all the bad post about this little plane I was hoping I was not making a mistake on my chioce for a first electric. First of all I think it is important to understand this is not a SLOW PARK FLYER! I have six years experience with rc glow powered planes I don't consider my an expert but some place in the middle. Last night was test flight time and to my surprise expecting the worse it fly's great climb out was good plenty of power very responsive to the controls. I did have about six to twelve mph winds. I did't know what to expect this is also my first elevator rudder only plane but all went well. I put three five min flights on it with none of the bad experiences. On landing just kept some speed up untill about a foot off the grass and flared very fun. At speed it like its on rails I was surprised at its speed. I am using the stock motor, prop and a GWS flight pack with 8 cell 2/3AAA 350 mah battery. all up weight 8.9 oz no landing gear. Maybe with more flights I will experience some of the bad things but for now I am happy with my rascal.
Old 04-23-2004, 08:40 PM
  #47  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

jimt, I have been flying my quite a bit. I made 2 easy changes, I installed a 7X6 prop and I added a 1/16 shim under the trailing edge of the wing, flies much better. I usually use an 8 cell pack but when I want alittle fun I install a 700 mah 3 cell Li-po pack. Can you say "yee ha"?
Old 04-24-2004, 03:02 AM
  #48  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

Great I am going to fly if saturday weather permitting. I will install the shim and give it a try. I will see if the LHS has 7x6 prop this week if not I will get one on order. The li-po "yee ha" sounds fun to me. Thanks for the tips. And yes it is 0300 hrs!! I need to get some sleep.
Old 05-03-2004, 11:04 AM
  #49  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

do you recommend any other models to a beginner with Park flyers? i was gonna get the rascal but it sounds too much for me.

thanks
Old 05-03-2004, 11:33 AM
  #50  
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Default RE: Sig Li'l Rascal wing modification

For Park FLiers...you can't go wrong with a Slow Stick....fairly large, docile...a good starter park flyer.

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