1987tc

My Feedback: (39)

Found the video. Plane looks to be a good flyer. Even with some wind.

Greg Covey

One of these days, I'm going to get a remote microphone so you can hear me talk over the wind.

It looks like [link=http://www.allerc.com/]ALL e RC[/link] is selling the TM400 now as well as the floats. Go to the "Airplane Kits" section.

captglover

Greg,

I'm new to building these models. Would you mind a few questions?

Why the use of Tacky glue instead of epoxy for the fuselage?

I heard that these electric motors wouldn't like 3-cell Li-Polys. That you should use 2-cells to avoid burning out the motor, etc. I'm still new to the amp/wattage/volt thing! :-)

I have a GWS F4U corsair which will be my first build. Which Li-Poly would be the best with the 350C motor? Would that need to be a 2 cell? ? I believe the factory recommended Ni-MH is the same battery for both the F4U and the TM 400. The 8N730mAh.

What kind of flying duration does your Li-Poly 1500 give you?

Thanks for the great detailed building report!

Michael

JohnS

Hi Greg,
I was wondering if the Tiger Moth 400 can be easily hand-launched? I have a large hay field behind my house to fly, but no place to adequately take off from the ground. Also, how slow can you come in for landing? Thanks!

Greg Covey

Hi Michael,

Welcome to the Electric Aircraft Universe of RCU!

The main reason I use Aileene's white tacky glue over epoxy is that it dries clear and stays clear! Epoxy will turn a disgusting yellow color after 6 months or sooner in a dry environment (like New York winters). If the joint is not going to show, then epoxy works fine and dries faster.

Voltage doesn't kill electric motors, current does. When you increase the voltage, the current also increases unless you take precautions to limit or reduce it again. This can be a prop size change or gear ratio change. The GWS Tiger Moth 400 is conservatively geared so a 10-cell NiCd (or 3-cell Lithium) voltage only draws about 10amps on full throttle...and you don't need full throttle for very long on this model.

I not familier with which gearbox is used on the GWS Corsair. Keep the current draw on a Speed 300 motor around 6amps. When you get good at throttle management, you can push the limits of the system for short bursts and set Speed 300 systems up for 8-10amps.

I typically get about 15 minutes on my 3-cell Kokam 1500 pack. It depends upon the amount of wind and my flying style at the moment...docile or aerobatic.

Good luck!

John,

Yes, I hand-launch the TM400 when the field grass is too high. A light toss straight out works great!

Boilermaker1

My Feedback: (1)

Greg,
I hope it's not too late to keep this thread going. The TM 400 looks like a great airplane. I found it available at e-flightline.com as a kit with servos and ECS, but the ECS is a GWS ICS 100. Is this ECS sufficient for this a/c and stock motor?
Another question, diff subject. What is meant by a slope glider that I've seen available as a kit?

Thanks for the help!

1987tc

My Feedback: (39)

The slope glider is an unpainted version with no motor or gearbox.
Mainly bought by those who want to customise the plane and already have a motor etc to use. A lot of people buy them who are going to use a brushless set up.
I found mine to have plenty of power on the stock set up with a 3s 1320 TP lipoly pack.
Wes

1987tc

My Feedback: (39)

Also forgot to mention. I would not use the ics esc. The one I have I used the GS400 isc with heat sink.
I also have hand launched mine with no problems. It is also for sale ready to fly.

Greg Covey

DM,

Wes is right about the slope glider version. Also, many folks love to paint their own scale scheme which not only looks great, but you can pick it out in a crowd of TMs.

I agree that the 5amp ICS-100 is not a great choice. Perhaps a call to them may discover that a type-o was made.

I'm not having any problems with my 8-amp ICS-300 ESC because full-throttle is used so seldom and even with a 3-cell Lithium pack, the 10.5amps that I measured is well within the 15amp surge rating.

My guess is that the ICS-100 ESC is within the actual current rating when using the stock 8-cell NiCd pack since it can handle 8amps surge current.

1987tc

My Feedback: (39)

When in doubt I tend to err on the side of safer is better on an esc. Last thing I would want is an esc failure because I pulled to much through it. The gs 400 esc was not at all expensive either. So why not I figured!

I had also though that my pack might not be great for it but it has worked out well. I have flown it around 25 minutes and the pack was just warm to the touch. Still well above the danger zone as far as running it to low .

I find I don't fly the flights as long as I do my little TM.
Wes

sledge4055

just finished mt gws tiger moth 400 set up with

E-flight park 400 4200
cc phoenix 25
thunder power second gen 1320 li-po
apc 11-7 prop
cobri gear box and shaft with 5.5 ratio

flight performance is awsome take off in about 5 ft goes virtical forever close to 15 min flight times on the tp 1320 packs with throttle control very fast plane now. Ive found i may need to reinforce the wings cause there seems to be alot of flex reinforced the landing gear by adding fiberglass rods from an old slowstick and some fuel line tubing to atach to the landing gear .. -- will post pics to show how i did it .. very simple and very strong.. i had the old landing gear rip right of on landing .. no way it will happen now..

orded my power system from b-p-p.com "bishops power products" if you havnt heard of them you need to check em out .. eccelent sevice.

sledge4055

hopefully the pics are viewable .. im new to posting pics so .. hopefully there ok..

first one is of the tiger moth that i airbrushe..
second is the landing gear wich i described previousely hopefully you get the idea.. pretty simple just use fuel line tubeing to connect every thing i just made holes in the tubing and pushed the wires through .. this was done on my formosa and tigermoth..

ifound that the same setup works eccelent on the formosa as well and the same landing gear works better than the original wheels on wing setup it comes with

Chipster

I just finished building a Tiger Moth 400. I've flown my Tiger Moth three
times, and it seems to be very nose heavy (thankfully no crashes, but it
needs a fair bit of elevator and struggles to gain altitude using the
recommended GWS 8 cell 730maH NIMH battery).

Where should the CG be measured from? The manual states "the CG is located
0~10mm from the leading edge of the under wing." I interpreted this as
0-10mm from the front of the bottom wing where it meets the fuselage. My
Tiger Moth 400 balances about 12mm from the front (leading edge) of the bottom
wing where it meets the fuselage after I added about 1oz of weight to the
nose with the battery all the way forward. I've seen a number of postings where people have added nose weight.

Where is the CG on other people's Tiger Moth 400 and where was it measured
from?

Thanks in advance for any advice

-Ian

fastrat

Hello All,
CAn anyone help, I want to put the new High Max 2025-5300 in my TM400, I'm using Kokam 3c 1500 packs. The motor comes with three different sets of gears, 6.6:1, 5.3:1 & 4.3:1. Question is what gears are the best and what prop should I use???? I also plan on using a Phoenix 25 esc.
Thanks
PS
Greg your info on the build process was a great help.

Greg Covey

fastrat,

I would stick with the stock (installed) 6.6:1 gear set and measure the current using your selected 10" or 11" prop. Use alow pitch like 4 or 6.

If max. throttle is around 15amps...you're all set!

Ian,

The TM400 should balance if you pick it up by the top wing underside with your fingers and place them about as far back as the leading edge of the bottom wing. If you feel that your model is nose heavy, simply start moving the pack back 1/2" to 1" at a time.

Good luck!

edfardos

I haven't flown my moth yet, but i'm concerned about the COG as well.
I had to add 1.8oz of lead on the nose just to bring the cog close to
the front of the bottom wing (still 15mm back) - that seems excessive.

Your description of measuring the cog appears consistent with the
manual (0-10mm back from the leading edge of the lower wing
where it meets the fuse). but have you tried this in practice? does
it feel nose heavy? is the manual wrong? can we calculate the
actual center of pressure somehow? I'd really like to get rid
of all that lead, and I'm concerned I wont have enough up
elevator to counter for a nose heavy plane (let alone land)
on my first flight

--edfardos

Greg Covey

If you recall, my TM400 was ready to fly at 18.2oz with a 4.1oz, 3-cell, Kokam 1500 Lithium pack. The plane balanced perfectly without using any of the supplied clay.

I would not add 1.8oz of lead to the nose. I'll have to dig out the manual again to see what it says but I don't recall their being any discrepancy about where the CG is suppose to be...nor did I have a balance problem.

Greg Covey

I measured 2.5" back from the LE of the top wing for my CG. This was measured near the fuselage on either side.

My CG was obtained with the stock geared motor and electronics. My only deviation was to use a 4oz Kokam 3-cell 1500mAh pack which fit well into the cockpit area after a little carving.

edfardos

understood - i used your article as a template for my tm400! .. I have the same kokam
pack, yet mine is pushed all the way forward such that the back of the battery is flush
with the front wall of the front cockpit -- *and* i have 1.8oz of lead attached to the inside
of the bottom of the cowl (below the motor)...

http://craiger.uh.nu/gallery/album02/pa040097
http://craiger.uh.nu/gallery/album02/pa040095
http://craiger.uh.nu/gallery/album02/pa040093

my cog is the same as your (2.5" back from the leading edge of the top wing at
the fuselage strut). I guess I used too much glue? It's hard to imagine using
1.8oz of extra glue.

gross flight weight is 22.3ounces now :/... 15% over max






Great article tho - I guess i'm stuck with the weight for now :/

--edfardos

rick77

I am starting on my first build, TM 400, and have gotten loads of good info and tips from this and other threads. After reviewing the manual I can't seem to locate details on how the ailerons attach. The installation of the aileron hinges is clear enough but how exactly the wing hinges and rods attach to the wing ain't so clear. Am I missing something? The aileron servo and control rods,although not mentioned specifically, seem easy enough. A little guidance or maybe a picture would help me see the light.
Thanks, Rick

edfardos

Quick shot of my aileron control rods.. be careful not to glue
the metal rod to the foam slot!! Use the black tubing they
give you as the grommet/hinge points..

http://craiger.uh.nu/gallery/album02/pa030071



--edfardos

(removed .4Oz of that nose weight, will fly tomorrow, it was quickly
flipping the nose down immediately after the apex of a vertical
stall with 1.8Oz in the nose.. so long as it keeps doing that my cog is
good right?)

Boilermaker1

My Feedback: (1)

TM400 Gents,
What NiMh batter do you recommend for the TM400? What do you recommend as far as cell size, weight, and mAh? I'd like to get as long as flights as possible but not give up too much weight.
Has anybody bought from CHEAPBATTERYPACKS.COM? Looks like they have great prices.

Phil

RickAvery

I flew my bro-in-laws TM 400 brushless yesterday and it flies very strong. He's running a Hi-max 2015 4200 with a GWS box and an 1160 GWS prop. It flew out of my hand like attached to a sling shot. He's only using a 8 cell 1100mah NiCad but what a difference over stock.
Phil: CBP is a good outfit, I've purchased from them often. If you're not going to go LiPO, then get an 8 cell AA flat pack of at least 1100mah. Radio shack has a 8 cell 1600mah Nimh battery for $15.00 You can take off thier shrink wrap and recofigure it into a flat pack which will fit into the TM 400. I've been using these batts for almost a year and they are still working great. Good luck.
Rick

Boilermaker1

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for the info Rick. I'll ck out Radio Shack tomorrow!
Just for fun, here's a pic of my TM. I hope the attachment worked.
Thanks to Go-N-Up for the paint scheme idea.

rick77

Hey Dirt Magnet,
I'm just starting to build my TM 400. I like your paint scheme. What kind of prep work did you do to the foam before you painted it if any and what type of paint did you use?
Thanks, Rick