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"RUDDER OR NOT" WARBIRDS

Old 01-18-2005, 09:02 PM
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flybymike
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Default "RUDDER OR NOT" WARBIRDS

The military warbirds offered through Hobby Lobby are using ailerons and elevator as controls. I know you have the option to add a rudder but what will be the big advantage to this? In the video clips @ Hobby Lobby, are they using rudder to perform these smooth aerobatics? I am just wondering if these videos are a bit misleading causing people to think the out of the box product performs like the videos. I have designed a one off foamie of a P51 and am wondering if I should add a rudder to obtain performance such as these warbirds exibit in the videos. Thanks guys.
Old 01-18-2005, 09:21 PM
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afineman
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Default RE: "RUDDER OR NOT" WARBIRDS

flybymike

I can not speak for the planes that come from Hobby Lobby, I can speak for the GWS planes I have.

When I built the Formosa 3 months ago, I put the rudder in, and other than using it to steer the tail wheel, I haven't used it (yet, as my skill grows, I will need it for a knife edge).

My brother got a Formosa 2 months ago and is still flying it with out the rudder.

A few weeks ago I did a Corsair maiden, I never built the rudder in to it. I thought it flew GREAT. I made a video of the maiden http://users.adelphia.net/~afineman/ ( !!!NOTE!!! if you find colorful language offensive, turn your speakers down before viewing).

This is the Corsair on it's first flight and there is no rudder.
I do not plan on using the rudder on this plane, ever.

BUT that is just 1 man opinion, I would wait for other to pipe in, maybe some one with that exact plane experience.

Hope it gives SOME help
Old 01-18-2005, 10:03 PM
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flybymike
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Default RE: "RUDDER OR NOT" WARBIRDS

Thanks for the info. I am having difficulty loading the video clip you attached but will keep trying. I understand the use of rudder for knife edges (which I cant do as of yet anyway LOL ) but smooth barrel rolls----- possible with just airlerons? not those "off axis" rolls you sometimes see. Thanks again.
Old 01-18-2005, 10:48 PM
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gigelus2k3
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Default RE: "RUDDER OR NOT" WARBIRDS

Hello Afineman,

The Corsair looks very stable in air, is this because it has some dihedral?

Nice flight!

Serban
Old 01-18-2005, 11:31 PM
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afineman
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Default RE: "RUDDER OR NOT" WARBIRDS

gigelus2k3

I wish I had a knowledgeable/witty answer, but I don't[X(]

I wanted to try the GWS War-Birds, I searched to see what plane was the most stable/easy to fly.

Every one said Corsair, and they were correct, I don't have a clue as to why it flys ssoo well (I was anal when building it), it has nothing to do with the pilot, the stability is all plane.

You may want to ask that question over on RCGroups, they seem to have a larger GWS following over there.

Sorry for the NO help
Old 01-19-2005, 01:53 AM
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Hepdog
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Default RE: "RUDDER OR NOT" WARBIRDS

I've only flown 3 planes without rudder and they all flew fine. 1 was a GWS Mustang. It flew just fine without rudder but is alot more fun with a rudder. ROG's are pretty much out of the question without rudder though.
Old 01-19-2005, 06:30 AM
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mrstingray
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Default RE: "RUDDER OR NOT" WARBIRDS

Afineman,

Congrats on your maiden in the Corsair. Your flight was much like mine. Great video. I put mine together, checked the CG (no weights required) and took it off. It flew just as yours did. No trim needed and it was as stable as my E-Starter. What a great flying plane.

I have built a GWS Spitfire and am trying to straighten it out now. My CG is obviously off and it is very squirrely. Cannot wait to fly it properly balanced. I do know that it is much more responsive on the controls than the Corsair (thus far anyway) and will spin with just a touch. My Corsair spins slowly (much like you see videos of the real ones doing) and is easy to control.

I do have a rudder on mine. I plan on learning to do a flat turn (an article in the latest Backyard Flyer shows how.........left rudder, right aerleron with a little up elevator...etc.) and that looks cool. Also want to try some acrobatics eventually.

Anyway, nice flight and I know what you mean about the shaking........every maiden flight for me is like that. I have a E-Starter, Stryker, Spitfire and Corsair. Will probably take the electronics out of the E-Starter and put them in a 109 soon.

Do your hands freeze like mine in this winter weather?? Seems after the first couple of flights, they warm up
Old 01-19-2005, 10:01 AM
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NJ Flyer 72
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Default RE: "RUDDER OR NOT" WARBIRDS

They fly fine without the rudder. I have Alfa and GWS warbirds without the rudder. There is a video of my rudder-less mustang in my signature. I can do the same flying as the Hobby Lobby clips, so I would assume the video's are not trying to mislead you.
Old 01-19-2005, 11:28 AM
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RJB-RCU
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Default RE: "RUDDER OR NOT" WARBIRDS

The warbirds from Hobby Lobby do not have a workable rudder in them. Dave Paine is their main pilot and does a great job for them. I have seen him fly at NEAT and at SEFF, he has a great set of thumbs. Unless you are going to do a lot of knife edge flight or slow rolls, I wouldn't bother adding a working rudder. Those warbirds fly great on just aileron and elevator. The biggest problem adding a rudder servo is that it takes up some room where the battery might possibly go. This would make obtaining the correct CG difficult.
Old 01-19-2005, 02:38 PM
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Flypaper 2
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Default RE: "RUDDER OR NOT" WARBIRDS

Flies fine without rudder but there some things that cannot be done without rudder. I have the GWS Zero with rudder and can do snaprolls, stall turns, Knifedge, slowrolls, etc. Just adds to the planes capability. If you feel like it you can add rudder to it later on with little trouble if things get boring. On mine, the rudder servo sits right beside the elevator servo, and is so close to the CG there is no need to add weight. When you do the flat turns, give full rudder one way and just enough ail. to keep the wings level and just enough elevator to keep the nose from dropping. then practice, practice, practice. The fun is in the challenge.
Old 01-19-2005, 04:32 PM
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Greg Covey
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Default RE: "RUDDER OR NOT" WARBIRDS

I have reviewed several of these planes over the years and I can tell you that they fly fine without the rudder. Hobby Lobby does not use the rudder in their videos if the stock plane does not normally include rudder control.

On these smaller parkflyer scale models, the ailerons become extremely effective and the only need for a rudder would be for maneuvers that require it like very slow rolls, knife edge, snap rolls, etc.

The disadvantage of adding a rudder to these planes is the added weight, added cost, and required skill set. However, this doesn't mean that you can't or should not add the rudder for it is simply a personal priority choice.
Old 01-20-2005, 01:38 AM
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flybymike
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Default RE: "RUDDER OR NOT" WARBIRDS

Thank you guys for the feed back!!! I will do without the rudder for now- I will tackle that hill when it becomes boring with just stock controls. Thanks again for all the help.
Old 01-20-2005, 02:39 AM
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Default RE: "RUDDER OR NOT" WARBIRDS

the rudder comes in more uses than just a knife edge.
i use mine on my GWS mustang for slow rolls wing overs, even fast rolls i can notice the yaw.
id be adding the rudder, if the ailerons fail, you can still steer

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