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R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Old 01-28-2005, 03:51 PM
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Default R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Well she is DEAD, what is left of her is sitting in the garbage can at the end of my driveway. Nothing but little foam chunks, never got to really fly her...spent more time fixing her than flying her and she was more epoxy than foam. Grrrrr....

...But let me mourn no more! I need a new plane!

Okay, what to replace her with? I'm sure you guys have gotten this question a lot but here it goes again...obviously my ME-109 was to much for me as a semi-beginning pilot. I have my Pico Stick F, she flies great but I'm ready for more.

I'm leaning towards these 4 planes...Tigermoth, Beaver, PT-17 Steerman or E-Starter. Does anyone have any suggestions? Something I can get that I don't have to go and buy a whole bunch of new stuff for. This is what I have as far as electronics go.

GWS "Dream Starter" Radio GWT-4A
GWS R-4PII 4 Channel Reciever
GWS ICS-300 Speed Controller
3 x GWS Naro miro-servos
2 x 7.2v 700mAh NIMH batts
2 x 9.6v 730mAh NIMH batts
1 x 8.4v 370mAh NIMH batt (for my Pico Stick)
and a bunch of props...mainly 9047 and 1047
Old 01-28-2005, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

you could try the zero, a little more forgiving than the 109, but if your not looking for a warbird than i would go with the e-starter of the steerman
Old 01-28-2005, 07:49 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Yes, good point SBR...I'm not looking for another warbird right now. I am leaning more towards the Steerman but I would like to hear from anyone who has one. How they fly and such...do they have alerions?

Also would like to know more about the E-Starter and how she flies.
Old 01-28-2005, 09:19 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

The E-Starter is a good plane. Build it light and take the landing gear off if flying from a grass field. If you do not remove it the grass will do it for you!!! Also you might take a CA hinge and cut a slit in the bottom of the rudder and put it in the slit when you put in the tailwheel wire. This is a weak spot and will probably cause problems later if not reinforced. Also make sure the area you fly it in has more than enough room until you get used to the plane. It flies at a decent speed. Not fast but faster than say a Pico Stick. I just bought another one and will be building my first floatplane. Also you might want to cut a shallow channel in the bottom of the fuselage and either put a carbon fiber rod or a balsa stick in it to reinforce the tail. I never had problems with mine but I know people that have snapped off the tail on hard landings. Good luck and remember to have fun!!!!
Old 01-29-2005, 10:09 AM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Another good choice is the Tigermoth 400 from GWS. Good transition for ailerons as you can install both rudder and ails. with your 3 servos. Can be flown much slower than your ME 109 as it has much more wing area.
Old 01-29-2005, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Thanks Flypaper...I thought about the Tigermoth 400 but I think I need another speed controller for the 400 motor.

After a lot of research I am really starting to like the GWS PT-17 Steerman...but I'm still torn between the Beaver and E-Starter too (Ace). So many planes...not enough money.

Another question...does anyone know if you can fly the Steerman without the ailerons? Just elevator and rudder maybe? I'm still freaked out by ailerons after my ME-109. But I got to step up into aileraons if I want the cool planes.
Old 01-29-2005, 07:36 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

I doubt that it was airlerons that did you in on the 109, it was probably more the fact that it was a low wing warbird, which isn't the easiest thing to deal with. I think a steerman with ailerons would be far more forgiving for you. If you want something really easy to fly, the Beaver is a great plane!
Jaggy
Old 01-29-2005, 11:07 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Why not look at something from Alfa? Far superior to anything from GWS.
Old 01-29-2005, 11:21 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

I've looked at Alfa....great looking birds, so much that I would be afraid to fly one if I owned one! I would love to have the Stuka but I think that is down the road a little bit.

Your right Jag, I think it was the whole low wing and speed of the 109 that killed it...I mean I know the whole concept of ailerons and can picture how to use them in my head. I think the Steerman would be awesome, but I would like to try the Beaver, Tigermoth and E-Starter!
Old 01-30-2005, 07:40 AM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

If you want to try all those planes, then go with the Beaver first. It's a great flyer, looks good, and is fairly crash resistant. The small tiger moth is a good plane, but I would recommend the Beaver over it as a beginners plane. The tger moth is far more breakable in a crash, and we found the one we have quite underpowered compared to the Beaver. Truth is, we have a brushless motor on order for the Tiger Moth, because we've been haveing a lot of issues with it, and have found it to be barely flyable in stock trim.The E-Starter is a great choice for a first aileron plane. The price's of all these planes, and the fact of how you can swap the electronics over between them, make them all good choices for beginners electric flight. Good luck with it , and have fun!
J
Old 01-30-2005, 04:32 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Thanks again Jag, I really want the Steerman...I just don't know how big of a jump it would be from my Pico Stick. I know it was a HUGE leap from the Stick to the ME-109 but I'm wondering how much a learning curve would be to step up to the Steerman. I know everyone says the E-Starter is a great plane for an aileron trainer but would the Steerman be forgiving enough to be considered a "aileron trainer"?

I know the Beaver would be easy to fly, same rudder/elevator set up as my Pico Stick but just with a bigger engine...quicker and fun for some loops which my Stick can't do.

I'm heading out to my local hobby shop here this afternoon so we'll see what they have in stock....I hate having to wait for something to come in the mail via internet orders.
Old 01-30-2005, 08:51 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Just got back from my local hobby shop....

Picked up a GWS Tigermoth 400 and ISC-480J speed controller. Looks like a great plane, hope I have good luck with this one!

Anyone out there who has built one of these in the 400? Would like to hear from you with any tips and set-up examples.
Old 01-30-2005, 09:35 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Good choice on the TM 400. My dad has one of those he just built, that he's not maidened yet. Watched another guy fly one the other day, and it seemed a bit on the underpowered side, so I'd really make an effort to build it light. Go over to www.rcgroups.com, and start checking out some of the threads in the park flyers forum for this plane. Lots of good info on the build there. Good luck with it!
J
Old 01-30-2005, 10:57 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Thanks Jag, will keep posting on this forum about the build...

Started this afternoon and so far things are going great...I'm really excited about this plane!
Old 01-31-2005, 01:41 AM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

I've got the TM400 .. took ages to come but nows he's flying it was so worth the wait. I started on a pod'n'boom then got the GWS mustang - man what a frustrating excercise. Only got maybe 10 seconds of flying - it was too fast for me to handle, esp with ailerons- just kept smashing. I then got the funny park 0 much easier and slower, but a bit small - so had to keep her in close (don't ask how I know that). I loved it so much that I bought another and flew that until I forgot to tighten the bolt holding on the propellor..... result it was in so many pieces there was no way I could find them all.

Now I have the TM400, with the GWS IC 300 and 1500mAh lipo, which works really well.

BUILDING:I made only one mod when I built it and that was to glue some balsa over the plastic part where the wheels exit the mainframe as it is so flimsy, all but the most gentle landing will rip them off.

FLYING: It is larger so more stable and easy to see when flying. This has resolved the cause of a few crashes. With the lipo I onyl use full throttkle no more than 10 seconds at a time - one initial take off and when I want to climb suddenly. It will fly really slowly on just under 1/2 throttle and tootles along giving heaps of time to figure out where it is going. In a light to slightly stronger wind I find it needs more juice but remains positive to control. In a stronger wind it really mves around, with gusts knocking it a fair bit so I landed after 2 circles. I actually got it to "hover" in one spot for a few seconds- (not 3d vertical, but horizontally that is not moving forwards, but the wind holding it up). It also flies upside down with lots of down elevator, loops, rolls etc. To land I get it nice and close then ease off the throttle - it will glide then just drop once it slows down too much - so don't go too high or else it'll stall. The only mistake I made was having the initial servo rates too high & porpoised it into the ground on the maiden, snapping the top wing. I put a thin piece of wire down each side through the foam and some glue - now it's much stronger.

All in all it has been much fun, better then my others (although I loved the funny park - it was a bit too docile) but not so hard. I am able to fly it around trees, under goal posts, stall turns, loop, roll inverted flight 1/2 loops the rolls to level (whatever thats called) and I've only been into R/C for 6 months! It is so much better with the ailerons - I think it needs them - don't be afraid.... it is nothing like the mustang/spitfire (friends) so I imagine the 109 must be similar to them. With such big wings it banks gracefully with little stick inputs and really is the perfect first aileron plane. If you are still worried, keep the servo settings conservative (I now have a computer radio bu never use the low rates).
Old 01-31-2005, 07:12 AM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

the sky-scooter proII is a great aileron trainer.. can fly fairly slow and takes some extreme beatings..


tape the the LEs and nose and go for it.. everything but your batts should slide right into a scooter kit..
fuse, wing, rear gear = $50
motor, gearbox and prop= $15

grab it and growl!
Old 01-31-2005, 08:38 AM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Only weakness on the TM 400 is the landing gear mount. If you check out the full size TM, there are two struts attached to the firewall and down to the axles. I glued on a 1/32 ply plate across the bottom of the firewall and two U brackets made from beer can tin and screwed on with small sheet metal screws to hold the .050 piano wire struts soldered to the bottom of the main gear struts. Knew I was going to push it hard so made flying wires from dental floss to take the extra airloads. Snaprolls are hard on the wing without them This is one of my favorite planes for teaching as it has very good manners.
Old 01-31-2005, 12:57 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Clovus, great info...thanks for taking the time to write up the great post! Sounds like you and Flypaper have the same advice, beef up the landing gear!

Did you guys have to add any weight to this bird? The manual says the CG is 0 to 10mm from the leading edge, is this pretty much what you guys got too?

I just finished the fuse and lower wing, getting ready to start on the putting everything together. So far I'm really happy with the build on this thing...not many problems. Just found a couple of mess ups in the manual though.

I'll keep updating!
Old 01-31-2005, 01:49 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Running a 2100 ma TP lipo batt slid into the batt. slot as far as it will go and balances right on the 10 mm mark. Had to hollow out the batt. slot to slide in the batt. Get 1/2 hr run time on that batt. and Brushless Himax motor on 10-8 prop.
Old 01-31-2005, 02:06 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Glad you brought up batts Flypaper...that reminds me of a problem that I ran into...

I bought a GWS ISC-400J to go with the 400 motor...I didn't notice until last night that the plug for the battery on the speed controller is a Taymia type,[:@], and obviously can't plug into my batts with JST plugs. Do they make an adapter so I can use the speed controller with my batts? Which are going to be the 9.6v 730mAh NIMHs from my 109.
Old 01-31-2005, 05:42 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

No probs!
Just cut off the connector and replace with the ones you use by soldering the new ends on. I have my lipo as far forwards as it will go -but I had to try and sand out some space for it to fit. It is such a good bird and instills so much confidence that I have just moved the battery back a bit to liven things up a bit.

Again, I am not super experienced and had trouble with the wrong type of plane for my ability, but the TM is so good that I have progressed unbelievably since I got it. Things that I thought I would be struggling to do - such as 1/2 loops then rolling back to level at the top (inglemann turns??) are easy. Now I'm working on not just flying aimlessly around the sky but now am actively thinking about where I'm going, where I'm placing it and trying some precision flying. MY favourite is flying low and slow, skimming maybe 1m above the ground then going up as steeply as I can under full power - with a little wing waggle for good effect! It almost goes vertically.

I would also consider beefing up the inside cabanes where they meet the fuse - I didn't glue them into the top wing, but used double sided tape without peeling off the backing so they wedge into the slots on the bottom of the top wing so the wing can be removed easily.
Old 01-31-2005, 05:51 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

forgot to add the link to the excellent review from RCU that convinced me in the first place that the TM should be my next plane:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=345
Old 01-31-2005, 06:30 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Funny that you used that link Clovus, it's the same one that I based my decission to get the TM400 also! Great review and I've been using it as a guide as I build mine up.

Actually I bought an adapter connector from cheapbatterypacks.com to fix the connection problem between my ESC and batt. I also bought a JST B.E.C. connector to cut and splice if I screwed up on the above mentioned order.

Your experiences with this plane just make me more excited about getting her finished and up in the air...oh and those are emmellman's your talking about. Can't wait!

Will update soon with pictures from my build...
Old 01-31-2005, 07:04 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Here are a couple of pics from the build so far...

The fuse and bottom wing, alierons are hung...went with what the RC Mag review said with a little gap between the wing and aileron. Using yellow electrical tape to cover the dowl and aileron rods. The lower wing is a snug fit with the fuse, love it.

Haven't glued the motor mount in just yet, just for show right now...

More to follow!
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Old 01-31-2005, 07:10 PM
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Default RE: R.I.P. GWS ME-109

Hargravebl,

We're suckers for advertising! After the funny parks I didn't fly for a few months and then read the review so ordered one -which took 2 months to arrive. In the meantime I started to get into micro helicopters and thought I'd never go back to planes. In fact I almost cancelled my order. BUt now I've flown it a few times -I'm gald I've got it - it's a different kind of flying - much more relaxing, yet still fun and challenging. Just watching it bank around stirs up some really good feelings. My little Tweety-bird pilot loves it too... he's always smiling I also got a feather from my budgie in the fuse for good luck

I still like my heli, but find there are times - when I am just itching to get the TM out and can hardly wait to finish work!

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