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GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

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GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Old 10-19-2007, 12:54 AM
  #76  
guapoman2000
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Here's my Tiger Moth in Foggy and Calm Conditions.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuAJn2hw2co
Old 10-19-2007, 02:10 AM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

GMann2000 - Hola mi amigo! Brilliant vis, even the wife was impressed I've just realised after seeing vid2 that you've got the HiMax 2212 in the Moth. I've got the same in my Beaver - wot a brilliant motor!! Its light, instant high rev range and cheap!! I'm definately not impressed with the TP so soon I'll convert to Himax in my Moth. I have to admit it, you're a better flyer than I am. Oh, that hurt, pride is dented but the truth hurts eh!! And you're not a bit like I imagined. T-hirts in the morning, wow, I'd love to live there. And you think thats windy - Boeing send their planes for wind tunnel testing in Glasgow 'cos its cheaper than an elctric one!![>:] That u/c is a definate improvement, landing is solid. Bye for now, flying after a power nap, such is the life of an insomniac retiree (56) aeronut - and no wind (yet).
Old 10-19-2007, 05:08 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Flew my Tiger Moth again.........3-days in a row!

I did not have a T-Shirt.....it was a Polo Shirt style

I do realize that I am very lucky to live in a place that you can fly year round and to have such a nice field right within the Space Center gates for employee's.
Old 10-19-2007, 07:10 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Hiya GMan2000. - yearh its nice to be in a club but ours are mainly nitro, little leccy. I use about 5 fields depending on wind direction, my fave is a slope flyers dream - unused roads top and bottom, and about 1/2 mile in either direction. I need my 9 planes 'cos I retired early (at 56) and fly every day (weather permitting), always take 3-4 planes "in case of breakage"!!!
Question: how did you mount Himax to plane, did you use GWS stick mount or bolt to bulkhead? I fitted TP against a balsa bulkhead, screwed and epoxied on. HiMax will be next, a better motor. Time for bed, Byeeee.
Old 10-19-2007, 07:16 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

PPS - just thought I'd show you my latest project, a cut down Stryker body I found lying around, broken wings and fuse. Grafted new wing tips on and cut fuse right down to save weight etc. The piccy show brushed motor at rear but thats being moved to a front motor fixing 'cos of CoG issues. It will be 3S 850 Lipo and the lightest moto I've got - looking or a total weight of about 16oz. here it is......
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Old 10-20-2007, 10:00 PM
  #81  
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

ORIGINAL: tam popo

JrexA - Jesper, Hello!! Yearh, I see what you mean by the struts, I picked my Slow Stick up yesterday 3pm and finished it at 6pm I put in some carbon struts instead of the white plasti one, a lot tougher now Wow, this thing is basic, its flying taken to bare basics, but thats good. If its a cosmetic looking plane you want, don't buy the SS. And if you eat beans don't go flying!!![>:] just need to maiden, put on stickers and clear tape etc and I'm ready.
The moth - motor sounded a bit rough and I found out why. The rear bearing had dropped out and was lying on the carpet. Had to rebuild the motor mount completely. Again, can't wait - weather not too good at moment.
My wife and I are intrigued!! There's so much we DON'T know about Greenland - don't even know the Capital, weather, distances, language, history etc - so much. Maybe when you have time just fill us in on wot its like there, job, family, travel, car, etc. Anyway, must finih this Slow Stick. Piccys ---
Hi Tam Popo.

Been busy for a change....

Here is a bit of stats/info about Greenland.
Area: 2166086 km^2 = 836330.48 miles^2
Ice Free Area: 410449 km^2 = 158475.24 miles^2
Distance (north to south) 2670 km = 1659.0611 miles
Longest Road: Aprox km. 100 (From Kangerslussuaq to the Inland Ice)

Main City: Nuuk, Nuuk Airport is located at: 64.2° N 51.7° W

Total population: aprox 56000 people
Population in Nuuk: aprox 16000 people.

Languages spoken: Greenlandic (Inuit) and Danish. The Inuit talking paople can talk with Inuits from Canada and Alaska.
Aprox 20% of the people up here are foreigners, Danes are the Major foreign group, with 95% of the foreigners.

There is NO roads between cities. Longest driving distance in Nuuk, without going VERY roundabout ways, is around 8 miles.
80 % of the cars up here are 4WD, but most people can walk to work in less than 20 minutes.

There is an active Model RC Flying club, and they have just started up with indoor flight, and that is why I am getting the Pico Moth and the Pico stick.
Outdoor flying season is around May-Sept. but often too windy. (Either virtually no wind, or 20 knots+)

You have to like hunting, fishing and sailing to live up here, there is NO way to get out of the city, except walking, sailing or flying.
Weapons laws are currently VERY loose, when it comes to Hunting firearms (No Age limit, No Waiting time, NO registration) but Pistols, revolvers and semi autos require a permit, that is impossible to get.

Cars are mostly imported from Denmark or from the US.

Politially, Greenland is part of Denmark, but has "Home Rule" and is NOT a member of the European Union.
We DON'T have VAT/sales tax up here. And Import taxes "only" on Cars, Snowscooters, Tobacco, Alcohol, Sodawater and Sugar.

There is a Maraton each year in Nuuk(August or september, don't rember the date), some say that it is the second hardest in the world. They say, that only the maraton on the Chinese Wall is tougher.
The Maraton course is km. 21 long, and is run twice. Runners start at aprox 10m above sea level, gets up to around 120 meters above the sea, and down to around 25 m above the sea, before returning to the starting point(Passing the same hills)
One of the hills is about 70-80 meters uphill in around 400 meters distance.

Nuuk is a modern city(town) where most anything can be found. some of the smaller villages (200 people or less) have only a single store, and maybe 6-10 hours sailing, if they want to go shopping, in a city with 3 shops.

Living costs are high. Pricing for houses in the interesting citties(where there are jobs to get) are very high.

I Like it up here, nice people, a feeling of SPACE, no trees to obstruct the view.
( I am from "Southern Denmark")
Old 10-21-2007, 01:55 AM
  #82  
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Jespa, thanks for that. But what is an FG Leopard etc? Nuuk sounds really nice but I don't think I ould last 2 minutes there - no chance of a suntan!! And my wife is an International class shoppaholic - she's sponsored by ME!!!!!!!
A bit off thread - I'm really liking my SS, its just wot I wanted, a slow flyer for my old age (retiree, 56). Already converted it to brushless but broke the mounting so now converted back to stock. I've now got the trim almost right. I'm off flying toay, so I'll catch up with you later.
PPS: The thread I normally go on (Australian BBQ and Beers!!) liked the idea of the SS so about 2-3 of them went and bought them. They like it as well. Byeee
Old 10-21-2007, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Another Super Flight with my pico Tiger Moth at a nearby (Legacy Middle) School in East Orlando, Florida location.

Just take a look at her flying inbetween trees!

Wow, this pico Tiger Moth with the Himax HC2212-1180 is a keeper.....!!!

Here's today's Video!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sk1zRRbR7w
Old 10-21-2007, 07:18 PM
  #84  
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

GP2000 - again, a beauty of a vid!! Lucky you, windless day - blowing 15-25mph gusts here, so been building, repairing, all those little things I should have done last week - but didn't[][&o] Hopefully an outing tomorrow, but might not be a slow flyer. Been putting together a beast (Sonofsatan!!), and has now evolved into a possibly twin motor (push/pull) wing. just got to sort out wiring for a twin motor job. See ya soon.
here's piccys of sonofsatan!!!
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:17 AM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Tam popo: The FG Leopard Race in my profile text is a Large Scale(1/6) petrol powered RC Off-road car.
Mine is aprox 30" long, 12kg, full Alu(Mostly Elcon), 2.4ghz Nomadio Sensor Radio, Race Ported 29cc engine and a Samba Race pipe. Runs aprox 40 mins on 0.7L of petrol with 4% Synt. 2 stroke oil. (US$ 3/gallon including oil)

No fiddling with small screws and micro servos on that beast.....

As for the Pico TM, I am SLOWLY continuing my build. Just have to decide what to do, to get some colour on it. I have been advised not to paint it, as the lighter it is, the slower it can fly, and for Indoor, that is a good thing.

One Mod I am doing is, that I am mounting the tail skid on the rudder.
I just take the servo horn, cut a slot in the rudder, and glue it in place there. it should make taxiing a bit easier.


Well, next flyday is on Saturday, have to be ready for flying by then.
Old 10-22-2007, 09:32 AM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

JRexA - wow, that sounds like some machine you got there!! Must of cost a bomb, is there much racing over in Greenland for those cars?
TMoth - if you want to add paint its easy to apply just a small coating to leading edge (see mine and Gmann2000). Don't do the whole surface, just the front and use a womans(?) eyelash/mascara brush to apply. But don't tell the wife you pinched hers[>:] I like the idea of the tail wheel on the rudder, mine is just screwed to the skid and doesn't move. Nice touch. Remind me of which motor your using next time you come on. Bye for now. Penguins are cute but I couldn't eat a full one!!
Old 10-23-2007, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Tam Popo: Just got a little further on my Build. I am used the extended Build Instructions from http://www.m-a-e.com The instructions are written/compiled by a poster nown as ArcherAce on another forum.
I also got the Westport CD-ROM 25 turns outrunner from them.

I have currently set the Dihedral, using the Epoxy method, mentioned in the expanded instructions. Unfortunately I couldn't find any 15 min Epoxy, and didn't thnk I would work fast enough for 5 min. epoxy... I am using the 24 hour version.. Well, only have to be Airborne on Saturday.
I also couldn't find any Microbaloons locally, but didn't want to wait 2 weeks for that to arrive, and has tried using Hempel Anti Skid perls(used for anti-skid in boat paints) instead. I have mixed aprox. 2 parts perls to 1 part epoxy, and I have likely used far too much of that putty at the dihedral point.
Time will tell...
Curently I am not planning painting, it, but intend to colour it, used speed markers.

As seen elsewhere, I have slightly modded the elevator and rudder, giving both the rudder and elevator 50-80% more movement range, this should promise better manouvers, when I get that far.

As for my RC car, Racing is extremely Rare, We are only 2 with that type/size of cars, within a distance of 2000 miles or more.....
Price: It started as a used car with AM Radio, and severl Alu upgrades at aprox US$ 700 (New price, No Radio, No upgrades. Aprox US$ 1300). I have since uprated 90% of the parts, tuned the engine(new race ported head + stroker crank, now 29cc versus originally 23cc), I stopped counting, when buying a US$ 500 radio system...(Which can be had now, for less than US$ 300)

Back to my Moth. I have attached a picture of my messy work table. I found that a box of .22LR ammo is just the perfect weight, to keep the wing flat, without damage. (Yea, also have a decent amount of firearms[10+] and ammo[2500 rds + incl. .22LR])....
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:08 PM
  #88  
tam popo
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

JrexA - Hiya. What a tidy guy you are - thats the cleanest, most organised work area I've ever seen. Mine is a hell hole, I'm always in trouble with the wife!!![]
Flying the Moth - went out early today and what a flying session I had with the Moth. Hand launched and away she went, straight as a die, didn't even have to put up elevator to climb. She just went up and away to about 60-70ft. just doing loops of the field. It flies just like Gman2000's, rock steady!!! Even the wing tips don't go up and down like some planes. Then the motor decided to aprt from the fuse and down she came, but no damage. Motor now fixed ready for tomorrow. You're in for a pleasant surprise when you get yours done, the b/less makes big difference. bedtime now, see ya later.
Old 10-23-2007, 08:20 PM
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JRexA
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Well.... My picture is cut, only showing the cleaned part of the work table, not the trash and the 15 boxes of 30-06 and 6.5x55 ammo....
Old 11-11-2007, 07:15 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Here's another Pico TM success story:

My first foamie build after seeing one in person at the club and for indoor flying later this winter.
I put aside the IPS motor and went straight for an Axi 2203/46 with the Thunderbird CC18. Power source is the Flightpower Evo lite 800mah 2s lipo. Overkill I know as was hoping to get another use for it in another plane. Futaba micro servos at 7.5g each and the Futaba R606FS receiver weighing 10g. I used the GWS glue for the fuselage but switched to low temp hot glue for everything else including setting the dihedral. The motor mount was customized. The Axi 2203/46 has a permanent tripod mount with 2mm wood srews and a permanent prop saver. So with a little careful measuring, I cut out some 1/8" plywood to the shape of the nose, marked for the screw holes, then drilled those out to accept 1/4" dowel, and mounted the motor right on top of the dowels so that it stands off from my firewall and lines up with the cowling. I used 30 min epoxy on the firewall and motor mount. Then I carved out the original battery slot to hold the lipo and everything balanced perfectly and it weighs 9.5 oz with everything in it and flys just as perfectly as the other TMs in this thread at just above 1/4 throttle with the GWS 8x4.3 prop.
Old 11-11-2007, 07:36 PM
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tam popo
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

CWH - Another satisfied customer I think!! Thats wot I love about the Moth, its so versatile, as brushed or b/less. I run the 850 2S or 3S and get about 20 minutes if I'm frugal. The Moth is in my car permanently "just in case" and always draws a crowd (sometimes, unwanted). I'll take a look at that motor of yours cos it sounds interesting. Any pics, build tips you can share? Thanks for joining us. Byeee.....
Old 11-11-2007, 08:34 PM
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Sorry, not going to post any pics because I butchered the cowling up pretty good and plus the cowling that came in the box is white so it looks odd but still functional. I probably used way too much hot glue on the tail section, looking back I could have gotten away with three drops on top and two drops for the bottom. The wing tape? was deemed useless by me from the start. I just couldn't get it to hold. So I filled up the wing fold with hot glue, set the dihedral and waited for it to cool. Looking back now I should have set the dihedral about 5mm more to allow for droop after my supports were removed. It took one drop of hot glue for each point of the wing braces and a couple of drops in the middle of the brace for extra support. I made a thin bead for the middle braces. I used one full length hot glue stick, so I need to weigh one to see how much extra weight that was. I don't think I could use the smaller 350mah 2s lipo battery as I would then have balancing issues with it being tail heavy, but the 800mah battery was perfect. I think for the servo horns, I'm going to change and use the inner hole at the servo and outer hole for the elevator as I now see that little elevator inputs make a big result, and put a longer horn on the rudder servo to get some extra rudder throw.

I did two 10 minutes flights and used 400mah from the battery. Yep, I'm a satisfied customer.
Old 11-12-2007, 06:54 AM
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tam popo
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

CW - the normal setting for linkages is - outer on the servo and inner on the horn, but go with ot you feel comfortable with. I've converted my Tmoth struts to carbon rod, 2 on each side. I used some plastic type mounts I had left from a Beaver build for mounting. Makes the wing a lot stiffer and less prone to breakage in a crash. I don't run a cowl either cos (1) I lost it and (2) it looks Ok without, one less problem.!!!! see ya soon.
Off toic - heavily into 2 builds at moment. One is quite interesting - its a pod mounted wing from H/zone commander with a TP b/less mounted just beneath with a profile fuse holding lipo, looking for long flight times. Its similar to old 1950's style Free Flight.
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Old 11-17-2007, 09:03 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Well, I've put the linkage back in the furthest hole for the elevator and set dual rates for cruise and landing. Mainly because with it mechanically set to low throw the trim function didn't work quite as well. I was finding that as my lipo disharged the natural voltage drop was enough to cause a change in prop rpm throwing the plane out of trim and every so often I needed to adjust the elevator trim. With the axi 2203/46 and a 8x4.3 gws prop one measly little click of throttle made a huge difference. I found an axi motor efficiency calculator and it says this motor is 70% efficient with a gws 6x3 and 2 lipo cells but only 53% efficient turning a 8x4.3 gws prop. While not perfect the results I've got from this calculator plugging in other known setups I have match them very closely in real life. So I've ordered some 6x3 props to try. This should also get me more play room on the throttle without having to set the endpoint short and I suspect to get the same cruising speed with the 6x3 would result in a slightly higher stick setting but actually drawing less current. All of this to me is a sign of better efficiency.
Old 11-18-2007, 07:18 AM
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tam popo
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

CW - I had a similar problem (still have it!!). The motor is a Bell-type 1500Kv 125W motor and I use a 850 2S and 3S lipo, but I can't get full power using an 8 x 4 prop. I asked for ideas/help from the guys in Australia (BBQ & Beers) and they reckon its because the lipo is only rated at 10C - these motors need a 20C rating. I've just put in an order for 2 new lipos at about 1000 and 1300 3S but not quite sure if they'll fit. If they don't I'll have to scoop some more foam from fuse or mount where pilots should be placed. Hope this works, if it doesn't I'm up the creek.... etc
I've pulled a muscle in lower back and I'm in agony, so no flyin this week[&o] so I'm stripping mobile phones for the casings (battery holders/digi cam holders now) and the vibrator motors etc. Byeee for now....
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:15 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Well, I appreciate all those nice posts.....lets see MORE GWS PICO TIGER MOTHs here in this thread....PLEASE!

I do see some others who have setup their pico TiGER MOTHs differently and I appreciate those Posts!

My flew today, first time in a very long time that morning was Dead Calm and I could FULLY enjoy this model as it was designed for....nice SCALE flights with majestic appeal.

Flew her for over 20 minutes at one click below half throttle and using my Himax 2212-1180 and swinging the GWS Slow Flyer 8X6 with 2-cell, 1200mAH, Li-POLY this translate to 1.84 AMPs total "or" for an average of 1.65 AMPs during the entire flight!

Just a super model, setup.

Carlos
Old 11-19-2007, 07:33 PM
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tam popo
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

GMan2000 - Hiya!! That flight time is amazing. I stopped using 3S and .now use 2S 850 and 1250 lipos. The 3S 850 was only rated at 10C which obviously wasn't enough, so n order for 2 new lipos went in today. I haven't flown the TMoth for a week and I'm getting withdrawal symptoms. No new planes now till next year, jut concentrating all my planes bullet-proof. Hope you are well....keep flying pal....
Old 11-19-2007, 08:21 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

I must have done something right with this build. Today I flew the Moth until "low-voltage-cutoff" (LVC) at 3v/cell. I'm flying an 800mah 2s flightpower evo lite. It went for 30 straight minutes. And yes it was really 30 minutes because I set the timer. I put back 710mah on the recharge. I've always heard that axi outrunner motors were the most efficient and now this real life example proves it. I believe gaupoman200 was only getting 20 minutes from a 1200mah 2s battery and tam popo was getting 20 minutes with the 850mah 2s pack. Hmmm, I'm going to run some efficiency calculations on the Himax motor guapoman2000 is using. Tam Popo if you could provide the specifications for your brushless motor such as no load current, resistance, rpm/volt I'll do the same for it. It will take me a little while to post the results.
Old 11-19-2007, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

Himax 2212-1180 + GWS slow flyer 8x6 + 2s lipo = 64.1% efficient Switching to a GWS slow flyer 8x4 would increase the efficiency to 68.4% with this motor and lipo.

Axi 2203/46 + GWS slow flyer 8x4.3 + 2s lipo = 52.6% efficient. However switching to a GWS 6x3 would increase the efficiency to 70.3%.

When I get the 6x3 prop we'll see if these numbers measure up in real life. I'm wondering if the numbers aren't skewed a little because they assume maximum power is being applied. Most of my flying is done at one or two clicks above 1/4 throttle.
Old 11-19-2007, 08:46 PM
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tam popo
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Default RE: GWS Pico TIGER MOTH - Flight Report

CW - here's the link to the supplier but there's not a lot of detailed info there. Its actualy more powerful than I thought, which would explain a problem I've been having. http://www.rcmdirect.co.uk/store/ind...roducts_id=398
The problem was the motor kept cutting out before max revs were achieved. 3 seconds later it was Ok. I know what the problem was - I thought the lipo was rated at 20C but was in fact only 10C - it didn't have the current for the motor. Have ordered 2 new lipos of 25C and this should be Ok now. The flight times I got before were with a different motor (1400Kv 125W) with 2S. Haven't got any stats for that one.
Flying on hold at moment 'cos of back pain (old age?), should be Ok by Thursday. Byeee for now....

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