tam popo

CW - I tend to use APC clone props in the region of 8 x 4 or 8 x 6, I don't have the Watt meter for testing, but more importantly the knowledge or inclination to work it out!!! If it flys, it flys. How high is my Watt meter!! (these calculations are based on the stupidity theory, also based on diminishing brain cell count!!!!)[][&o][>:]
Off to bed, need my beauty sleep I've been told.....

cwharper

Tam popo, the site says your motor was made by towerpro however after checking in other places I still wasn't able to find the resistance to plug into the calculator. If that motor really weighs 65 grams then it is way too heavy for the Pico TM. You need one under 30 grams that way you could increase your battery size if you wanted too. If the new lipos you ordered don't keep the motor running the next I would check is the low voltage cutoff setting in the ESC. It's possible it's set too high.

tam popo

CW - the plane is built to verylight tolerances and comes at the bottom of the scale weightwise. A bit like GMan2000's plane. yearh, you say the motor is heavyish but the power (when it works!) is very good and more than enough, almost hovering!! I've got another motor lined up thats about 35grm and just as powerful. Can't wait......

guapoman2000

Excuse me.....and allow me to post again about my GWS pico Tiger Moth.......[>:]

Super nice conditions in Central Florida on Sunday morning produced perfect RC Flying weather!!!!

Here's three in-flight pictures that my Buddy Gerry took of my Tiger Moth in action!

guapoman2000

Flew at the RC Club again for two flights of 20 Minutes each and had enough power to land on grass field and taxi back to the pilots pit.

Several there took notice and told me that they have been trying to buy the same "pico" Tiger Moth from GWS and they can not find any???[:@]

cwharper

Are you running a 1200 mah 2s lipo?

I finally got to fly mine with the 6x3 prop. It's louder probably because it's spinning lots faster, and it draws a tad less current than the 8x4.3 at the same ground speed.

I have a 1345 2s lipo I bought for another project but now I think I might try it on the TM and see if the extra ounce on the front will correct tail drooping at slow speed.

tam popo

GMan2000 - Hiya, really nice pics!! I found out that GWS is taking the European route and selling their kits as NPS (no power system). You'll get the plane as normal, control rod, horns etc - everything except the motor. I believe you called them Slope Soarers. The prices will be going up in the States as well. It was the guys on the Badiuus thread who found out.
CWHarper - that lipo will make it fly well, expect at least 15 minutes using max throttle. Where are you going to mount it, cos I can't get my 1000 2s in the bay, I have to fasten it directly underneath with bands etc. I can get my 850 3S in the bay (just!!) but its only 10C I think. I've stripped out all th paper/card wing struts and replaced with carbon rods (2 each wing) that make it stronger and can be dismantled in seconds to get acces to leccy bit. Thinking bout a hinged access door in bottom of fuse to get access in seconds, but I hate cutting foam[&o][]

guapoman2000

Yes, 2-Cell, 1200mAH, 12C, Li-POLYs

RC David

Hey Guys! Just read through all the old posts and I have a few GWS Pico TIGER MOTH questions.

I just bought and started assembling mine. I'm brand new to flying so I want to keep this plane as slow (and stock) as possible. First questions...

1) I assembled the lower wing per the instructions mounting the wing joint cover with the adhesive tape. I had one wing held up at the recommended 80mm height. However, after I put the tape on and removed the box I had holding the wing at 80mm, the amount of dihedral was changed as the hight was reduced to about 60mm. Will this have a negative effect on the end result? I'm hoping once I actually mount it on the plane with the upper wing it will be "flexed" back to the original 80mm (for proper dihedral).

Is this normal??? I don't think I can remove the original double-sided tape without damaging the foam.

I will be using the included stock, brushed motor, a GWS Li-Po speed control for the 2s 7.4v 800mAh batteries and a Spektrum DX7 2.4 Ghz radio and 6300e receiver that I already have. When the motor dies, I do plan to upgrade to brushless.

2) What servos do you guys recommend? I was thinging about either Hitec HS-55's or GWS servos. I could get digital micro servos but I believe the DX7 will work fine with some inexpensive analog servos for this (my first plane).

I assume it's still recommended to mount everything as far forward as possible due to this model being tail heavy?



Thanks for any tips (equipment or building) you can provide.

Dave D.

tam popo

RCDavid - welcome to the wonderful world of the Pico TMoth!!! First thing, which "stock" brushed motor do you have? There are 2 (for different markets etc), smallest is the IPSA-type (not usual) or the 370 with g/box (Grey plasti mount?). Both good but 370 better. The dihydral seems Ok the way you did it, propping it up on the box etc - some "fall" or drop might occur but a little bending and fitting the cabanes and struts will straighten it out eventually. The servos are Ok weightwise (you can go to 9grm if needed) and the RX is Ok. As you said, just mount it all as far forward as possible.
I flew mine yesterday, no wind. had the elevator settings incorrect (for another plane) and it came down with a slight bump. Adjusted the settings and tried again but had to use a 1700 2S!!!!! I was expectiong it to be too heavy but it wasn't, it just shot up and away. The lipo wouldn't fit in the bay so I taped it under the wing. A good ay flight!!!
Tips: don't glue the plastic mount to the wooden 10mm mount stick, screw it on. A drop of grease on the black plastic gear will help on first motor runs.
Any other problems let us all know, lots of advice on this thread just waiting. Oh, don't use a lot of paint, just the odd touch goes a long way!!

RC David

Thanks tam popo.

The motor looks like the IPSA type and is connected to a black box with one gear. The manual calls it IPS-DX2BB-AXC "Indoor Power Unit). There is a 3 inch long piece of wood that goes into the black gear holder and then into the plane.

Thanks for the info on the dihedral.

Still not sure which servos but I'm sure I'll decide when I get to the LHS. When you say "9grm" what is that referring to?

As far as paint, I was only going to paint the cowling and wing struts.

Lastly, what are you guys doing for wheels? Some local guys have replaced their originals with larger, better ones but I plan to change as little as possible unless something breaks.

Thanks for the tips. I was thinking about not gluing the wooden stick to the plastic mount too. Just wasn't sure if it would keep from pulling out.


Dave D.

cwharper

Hi rcdavid, 9 gms refers to weight in grams. The lighter the better. I kept the original wheels because most of my takeoffs are hand launch anyway and my landings are softened by pasture grass. For extra strength though i put some dental floss (used) between the two wheels so they wouldn't squat so bad.

tam popo

RCDave - everything that CWH is right, you can get away with 5 grms in the Pico but 9 grms are usually tougher (but not always!!). I use proper wheels with tyres but thats because it adds a little weight to the front and occasionally I use a tarmac strip for Take-offs (Rog's). The paint idea is good though. I think the cowl is clear plastic, so add the colour to the inside of the cowl, gives a good finish and look. And we want piccys when its finished or else......mi amigo!!

RC David

Thanks cwharper and tam popo.

I ended up epoxying the bottom joint of the cowling and will put some packaging tape on the inside to reinforce it. For the top joint should I do the same?

Also, one of the local guys just used the screws to attach the cowling to the fuselage and another guy told me to use a few small pieces of velcro instead to make it easier to remove. The problem I see with velcro however is that it (velcro) takes up too much space and then the cowling won't sit flush with the surface of the fuselage. What do you recommend?

For the wings that same first person told me to put epoxy in the grooves instead of using the OEM tape. I was afraid of adding too much weight so did it per the instructions with the tape. I guess I should leave it as is for now. When I break the wing I'll re-build it using the epoxy/gap filler product instead of tape.

I ended up using the HS55's but if/when they break I'll try the GWS Pico servos. One of my friends speaks very highly of them.

For the wheels, the main ones will get reinforced with flexible wire and dental floss. For the tail wheel I just bought a micro set from DU-BRO. I don't care about steering so this should be ok.

Last question (for now ;-) )... What brand/spec Li-Po battery works the best?

I originally was going to use the 2s 800mAh Li-Po's from my Blade CX heli but they are way too long. I don't want to carve out more foam than necessary to fit the battery. I bought a Common Sense 10C 7.4V 350mAh battery today but I thought I could get one in roughly the same size but 600-800 mAh. I can't seem to find one that fits the bill.

Any recommendations? I would like to stay with good brands like Thunder Power, Cell Pro, Common Sense etc.

Also, is the 350 MaH battery I bought going to give me a fair amount of flight time (6-8 minutes) or should I return it and find something else?

Dave

cwharper

The 350mah battery will probably give 8 minutes or so. I'm running a flightpower evo lite 800mah 2s (25-30 minute flight). Yes it's long and yes I did carve out some foam to make it fit in there. As it turns out, when it's positioned to the front of the original battery slot the plane balances perfectly there. The epoxy should have added any more weight than my hot glue did in the wing joint. But if you're not willing to carve out the slot, then just velcro it to the bottom of the fuselage where it balances and don't worry about it. The 1350mah 2s (40 minutes) battery will also work without adding too much weight for an even longer flight time. You will need to put it on the bottom though.

One day I'm going to try the VPX batteries to see if they add too much weight or not. If you're a DIY'er look up Black and Decker VPX batteries here.

tam popo

Hiya guys - I can't add much more to whats been said, its all good. I use a Hi-Model 1000 2s and it fits perfectly in my enlarged battery bay - just!!!! I even used a 1700 Hi-Model 2S pack cos I was desperate last week, had used normal pack already and I was getting a buzz with the flights. It had to be strapped to bottom of fuse with Extreme tape and I got 20 minutes before I got too cocky and nerfed-the-earth, resulting in top wing coming adrift. Be warned, this plane does not fly with the bottom wing only, I tried out of curiosity!!!
Right, I'm off flying my cut-own Strykers (no nose, little foam, small b/less, 2S) that go like stink!!!!

guapoman2000

My GWS pico Tiger Moth is still going and going, great Himax HC2212-1180.

I just got one Himax HC2212-0870 at eBay for a cool $28 and with this one, I can go with a larger propeller.

Here's some recent pictures of my Tiger Moth in action.

Sorry, I have been away for a while............

tam popo

Hiya GMan2000 - long time away!!! I'm using an E_Max 2805 and find it ideal with a 7 x 5 APC prop. Again I ran outof pcks and resorted to my Pico Stick pack of 540 2S (very light and small) - a brilliant combo. So I only got 10 minutes flight but that flight was exellent - I'll be using that pack again!!! Right, building to do, a BIG 54in EZ* to replace one that got away (RIP).......

cwharper

Ahhhh, another twist to flying the Pico TM. At night!!! Here's what I did to light things up. Used six total 8mm brightest white leds I could find. The leds were rated at 75,000mcd and a 40 degree light pattern. Wired them in parallel two groups of three with magnet wire for power. Used clear tape to mount three underneath both top wing tips and aimed to shine back toward the fuselage, lower wing, and tail. For power I used a one cell lipo 1100mah and velcrod it to the top of the fuselage and fixed it up with servo plugs for quick connect/disconnects. This method lights up the plane so it can be seen flying through the air just like in daylight. Orientation was easier too than using colored leds. The narrow light pattern keeps the light pointed at the fuselage and not shining right in my eyes.

And guess what? It flys the same at night as it does during the day, without the wind to deal with.

I must admit, the TM was used as a guinea pig for a much bigger lighting project. That first hand toss off into pitch black darkness was a little nerve racking, but even with corrective eyeglasses and stigmatism I could see it just fine even a 100 yards away.

Just extended my flying time a bit too.

tam popo

CW - now thats different!! But a nice touch. I think the beauty of your set-up is that its white light and the plane is that small that it must be totally lit up. Brilliant, the thought of it has brightened my day, hehehehehahaheh......

cwharper

I finally tried the VPX batteries. These are A123 cells but the 1100 mah version. They performed very well and the Pico TM flew just fine with them in there. I got 26 minutes of flight time and on average put back 970 mah. Now it did require an extra click of throttle to maintain level flight but the batteries don't care. They are cheaper than a 2s lipo pack of equivalent capacity.

tam popo

CWH - I'll have to look at those cells, I've been a bit let own by some 2S packs, they lost their charge after very little use. 123 might be a goodalternative - what are charging, do you need a new type of charger? See ya later, EZ* to finish........

guapoman2000

Latest Video of my GWS pico "TIGER" Moth!!!

July 12th, 2008

Power System Setup:

Himax HC2212-1180 Brushless Outrunner
Castle Creations ThunderBird 9 AMP Brushless ESC
GWS Std Narrow Servos
Castle Creations BERG 4-Channel Receiver
2-Cell, 1200mAH, Li-POLY
Pilot from ParkZone P-51D Mustang "Frankie"
Wheels, Dubro Lite Foam 1 1/2 inch diameter

Location: Legacy Middle School, Orlando, Florida

Here's the Video:
http://vimeo.com/1330086


Enjoy!!

.
.

guapoman2000

Oh, yes, my "TIGER" Moth flew for 25 minutes!!

guapoman2000

Hi Guys!

Been flying the TAR out of my little GWS pico Tiger Moth and still with the Himax HC2212-1180 Brushless Outrunner without any issue or problems!

Just a super power system!

Carlos