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Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

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Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Old 04-07-2007, 03:34 PM
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chipmeisterc
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Default Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Hi guys,

Just been browsing the forums for a few hours now, and thought I'd make a post,

I've always had a passion for planes, started working towards my PPL a few years back, however lost touch with it due to college/ uni. However I seem to have caught the flying bug once again.

At christmas I decided to purchase my younger brother a pretty cheapo 2 channel plane, after getting it home and testing it for myself , I found out (the hard way) that it had several manufacturing defects, including the prop pointing about 10 degrees down. After sustaining minor damage, I had to buy my bro a new one (without the defect) however I kept the other to myself took it apart, and began rebuilding it and repairing it, few days later and it was up in the sky!!.

Its a bit of a pain to keep in the air ( The throttles either on or off, and only rudder controll ) But I got it up , and seem to have mastered its pretty erratic controlls.

Now I'd like to upgrade to something with a bit more control and a bit more of a challenge so Im looking at the Parkzone Spitfire, I've been reading through the threads and seen the ups and downs of these range of warbirds and watched a few of the videos.

I've noticed a few people warn beginners away from these planes I'd like to know more specifically why they dont recommend them.

Any comments you have much apprecaited

Many thanks

Chris


Old 04-07-2007, 03:38 PM
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Mr. Mugen
 
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Welcome to RCU! Well is you have the know how already then it would be a great plane to start with. Even some simulator time will have you flying this one no problem. If you understand the simple concept of elevator/rudder functions then this bird is no different from the rest of them. It is lighter than the rest and has plenty of power. It also has a large wing area which makes it a much more stable flyer....especially when the power is cut.
Old 04-07-2007, 03:42 PM
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chipmeisterc
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Wow thanks for the quick reply and the welcome!! I imagine Ill be spending a fair bit of time here now

I've got pretty good experience with the physics of flight, and the behaviour of flight controlls having had about 12-13 hours real flying experience + always on flight simulator so I guess thats a bit more reasurring ( + Programming my own flight simulator :P )

What about the area these planes require to fly in , I'm currently flying In a pretty large park.
Should I look at the Li-Po pack ? Or will stock do me fine for starters? Im more concerned about battery preservation rather than speed/power
Old 04-07-2007, 04:30 PM
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ozrcboy
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Mr Mugen - were you talking about a PZ Spitfire?

If you understand the simple concept of elevator/rudder functions
PZ Spitfire doesn't have a rudder - 3 channel, throttle, ailerons, elevator.

Chris,

Here are some of the issues for beginners with warbirds - I'll leave you to figure out whether you might be ready of not:

No self correct - put a warbrid on it's side it stays there til it crashes.
High stall speed - these planes typically have pretty high wing loading and so need to fly fast to avoid stalling. That means they get away from you quickly unless you have a good handle on how to control them.
Hard to see - the camoflague on warbirds means you can lose them against the trees at your park pretty easy. Once you have lost her if you are lucky, and give full power and climb she will emerge above the treeline, otherwise you have a crash on your hands.
The PZ warbrids fuses all tend to disintergrate with hard landings.
Most warbirds are more sensitive to controls (even on low rates a warbird will be a handful for a beginner used to a rudder only, or two channel plane).
Ailerons add a new dimension of performance, but a completely new way of getting disoriented with your plane. I'm guessing your two channel has given you no experience of what to do with an upside down aircraft for example.

If you are coming from two channel the two major issues I suspect will be the no self correction (when you stop applying left and right does your bird come back to level - a spitfire wont do that) and speed.

Speed seems to be a hard one for people to visualise - which is to say they think they will be okay with it, but what seems to go on is stuff happens so fast that an inexperienced flyer just can't keep up, their brain goes into a state of lockout, and the plane goes in.

Cheers,
Oz.

Old 04-07-2007, 05:09 PM
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chipmeisterc
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Thats a pretty detailed reply Oz, just what I was looking for thanks,

I guess my main area of concern would be the speed as opposed to controlls, and a high stalling speed I guess adds a little more to that.
The park I fly in is pretty large, but I figure I should probably look to get somewhere a bit bigger to start of with.

What kind of height do these things fly at, and what height would you recommend flying them at, my experience has been most at about 30-40ft agl, so no real high flying, although Im guessing with these altitude is your friend

Also with ailerons and no rudder im guessing turning will be a little different to what im used to, im guessing get it banked then use elevators to turn ?

Any more comments / suggestions very much welcome

Cheers
Chris


Old 04-07-2007, 05:11 PM
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chipmeisterc
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

...also self correction ?..getting my two channel to fly level was half the battle
Old 04-07-2007, 05:40 PM
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Hi Chris,

Yes - banked turns and use some elevator to maintain altitude and pull through the turn.

I would guess you want at least 20 metres (~60 feet) of altitude and would say if anything go higher than that not lower (the plane will also be more visible above the treeline - another good reason for height). Height does reduce the perceptible affects of speed - the plane is still going just as fast, but doesn't seem to be, and your brain will probably still be making decisions rather than going into lockout.

Field size - ah - you are from the UK - that will make this easier - if you can find two cricket ovals next to each other that would be my suggestion.

To be completely honest a step from 2 channel to warbird is a pretty big one. If you really think you want to do it make sure you spend heaps and heaps of simulator hours. You are obviously a switched on guy - my concern is that your mental associations between what your mind wants the plane to do, and how quickly it can translate that into control inputs is where you will come unstuck. You wont have time to figure out the translation - however much of this you can teach yourself with enough simulator time.

Sorry - hope that doesn't seem like sucking eggs.

Cheers,
Oz.
Old 04-07-2007, 05:41 PM
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htjoel
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Hello Chipmeisterc,

I agree with OZ, you may want to take a step back (waaay back if all the flight experience u have is 2-ch). Most beginners in this hobby invariably want the cool looks and performance of a low-wing warbird but to be honest it is the biggest mistake a rookie can make. Low wing fighters DO NOT make good trainers and if you are used to flying 30-40 ft agl YOU WILL CRASH.

Your next step should be a high-wing trainer type plane with a thick wing chord and lots of dihedral. These 2 factors will give you a self-correcting plane that should return to level flight if you release the stick and keep throttle on. There are quite a few trainers that can be had on the market RTF for less than $180 all inclusive (TX/RX, servos, batt, charger). If you want a 'scale looking' plane with forgiving characteristics, check out the HobbyZone Super Cub. Very forgiving, yet has enough power to pull off basic stunts like loops, hammerhead stalls, even inverted flight! There is a huge thread in this forum on that bird...I personally own one and would not hesitate to recommend it to any beginner. It's 3-ch, so you will learn the basics of R/E/T flight. Another plus is the X-port upgrade factor, personally have the drop module (parachute jumper and streamer bombs) and the night-flight module.

If you like the PZ Warbirds, I have also started a comparo thread in this same forum, I own all 3 from Parkzone and have started the thread to see how other pilots like/dislike different characteristics of these gorgeous birds.

Cheers and Good Luck,
Joel


Old 04-07-2007, 06:52 PM
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traxxboy
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Hello I just ordered a PZ spitfire. I Have been flying for about 5 years now. I started on a firebird XL. Then got into glow with a great planes PT-40(rudder,elevater, throttle). After that someone gave me a 4-channel Hobbico flightstar. I then got stumbled across the f-27b stryker. I fle this thing for about a year. I loved that plane. My batterie started geting old and flight times shorter. I started flying over water(I live a few steps from a lake). The second flight over water I did I launched the plane climbed out executed a right turn and BOOM. The battery blew out the top hatch and took the RX/ESC with it to the bottom of the lake. I burned the fusealage because it was in rough thape and I had no electronics. I would say start out with a HZ super cub or PZ cub. both rudder/elevater/throttle. The spitfire does have better stalling charteristics than the p-51 and FW-190. Still the spitfire isnt a begginers plane. There have been so many PZ warbirds destroyed because people dont see how hard they are to fly. Look on youtube. I just dont want you to buy a $180 airplane and wreck it on your first flight. Look at the HZ/PZ super cub or cub. Or even the SLO-v.I taught myself ona firebird.
Old 04-07-2007, 09:23 PM
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packyj
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

The general consensus for flying height when you're still learning any plane is 3 mistakes high. If you can visualize the speed of the airplane and picture yourself making one mistake, this could be turning the wrong way, accidentally pushing down elevator instead of up, or in the case of an aileron flyer - putting too much control into the plane and turning it upside down. As you can see... three mistakes is pretty high. I'd say that no matter what plane you get take it up at least over 75 feet. Those parkzone and hobby zone craft have at least a 1000 foot range so flying 100 feet up is still easily in range. I as well would not suggest the low wing birds as a first plane.

Good luck hunting, there are a lot of planes out there that are great for beginners. One of the best I've seen is the multiplex easystar. Still looks airplane like and has a great learning curve. A pusher propeller plane has less chance of damaging the goodies on your first few attempts at controlled landings. Also if this seems like a hobby you plan to enjoy for a good while I would suggest the easystar and a stand alone radio system over the ready to fly planes. Mainly because this way you only need to buy one radio instead of having a lot of gear laying around from a lot of crashed up planes that you can't use in anything else.
Old 04-07-2007, 11:26 PM
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traxxboy
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?


ORIGINAL: packyj

The general consensus for flying height when you're still learning any plane is 3 mistakes high. If you can visualize the speed of the airplane and picture yourself making one mistake, this could be turning the wrong way, accidentally pushing down elevator instead of up, or in the case of an aileron flyer - putting too much control into the plane and turning it upside down. As you can see... three mistakes is pretty high. I'd say that no matter what plane you get take it up at least over 75 feet. Those parkzone and hobby zone craft have at least a 1000 foot range so flying 100 feet up is still easily in range. I as well would not suggest the low wing birds as a first plane.

Good luck hunting, there are a lot of planes out there that are great for beginners. One of the best I've seen is the multiplex easystar. Still looks airplane like and has a great learning curve. A pusher propeller plane has less chance of damaging the goodies on your first few attempts at controlled landings. Also if this seems like a hobby you plan to enjoy for a good while I would suggest the easystar and a stand alone radio system over the ready to fly planes. Mainly because this way you only need to buy one radio instead of having a lot of gear laying around from a lot of crashed up planes that you can't use in anything else.



Exactly. Thats is how I flew at the beggining and with new planes "Three mistakes high". I do this to gat a feel for the airplane. I tought my seld to using this method.
Old 04-08-2007, 05:09 AM
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gt5500
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

I am only going to give one piece of advice, please, please listen to these guys do not get the spitfire for all the reasons that have been stated. You might think it will look cool but how cool will it look after its turned into a pile of foam? even if by some amazing piece of luck you get it flying you probably won't be able to land it so after a few hard landings its not going to look too good. If you are as clued up as you say you are with real planes surely you must know that even the most experience pilots are scared of spits? and have you stopped to wonder why new pilots start off flying a cessna as opposed to an Extra 300?
Old 04-08-2007, 08:16 AM
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Well I will have to disagree with some of this hype. You stated that you are always on the simulator.....right. If so then I would not worry too much. Now if you wanted to start with the P-51 I would say heck no but this is not the case. Yes you should start with a top wing with plenty of dihedral but in this case maybe not. You have a pretty good grsp on the concept by the sounds of it. I made a mistake when asking about elev/rudder functions. Yes I know it has ail/elev. I guess it is totally up to you. If money is no issue then I would say get yourself 2 birds, a Super Cub and the Spitfire. The cub will get you up and comfy but will not be very challenging.......personally I like challenges. Either way your going to crash! It is inevidable! So you either crash a warbird or a topwing.....the choice is yours. By the way I have beed flying for a while now and still crash from time to time.....no biggie....they are foam. Good luck with what ever you decide. Peace, Kevin
Old 04-08-2007, 11:43 AM
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traxxboy
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

I never wrecked my pt-40 trainer. there is also a higher percentage of chance you will wreck the spitfire. Also the low wing plane is a little harder with orientation in the air.
Old 04-08-2007, 02:34 PM
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gt5500
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?


ORIGINAL: Mr. Mugen

Well I will have to disagree with some of this hype. You stated that you are always on the simulator.....right. If so then I would not worry too much. Now if you wanted to start with the P-51 I would say heck no but this is not the case. Yes you should start with a top wing with plenty of dihedral but in this case maybe not. You have a pretty good grsp on the concept by the sounds of it. I made a mistake when asking about elev/rudder functions. Yes I know it has ail/elev. I guess it is totally up to you. If money is no issue then I would say get yourself 2 birds, a Super Cub and the Spitfire. The cub will get you up and comfy but will not be very challenging.......personally I like challenges. Either way your going to crash! It is inevidable! So you either crash a warbird or a topwing.....the choice is yours. By the way I have beed flying for a while now and still crash from time to time.....no biggie....they are foam. Good luck with what ever you decide. Peace, Kevin
No the only time I crashed my slo-v was when I flew it with the wing in the stock position (way tail heavy) when I shoved it back and got the CG right it I haven't crashed it since. This talk of challenges is just wrong, its not about the challenge, you need to learn on a slow predictable plane to teach you all the basics so that when you move to a warbird you can actually fly it rather then fight to keep it in the air, ever heard the phrase "walk before you run"? And by the sounds of it the only plane he has flown is a wattage micro flyer (or a clone of it) which aside from orientation doesn't teach you much about flying a warbird, infact they are so uncontrollable they don't really teach you about flying anything, just how to control chaos
Old 04-08-2007, 04:44 PM
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

I wouldn't call the spitfire "running" by any means but to some, maybe. I had no sim. time before buying my Super Cub and it got boring pretty quick. However since the mods it is my favorite plane. I guess it's all in what you want in a plane. The super cub is most likely your best bet, but I bet you could handle the spitty with enough sim time.
Old 04-08-2007, 06:41 PM
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Your altitude is a more of a personal preference, but these planes can go as high as your want until they are a speck in the sky. Personally I keep my planes below the tree line simply because I like being able to see them...but if it's 3D I keep it lower than that, sometimes inches above the ground when in a hover.

The Spitfire would be the best PZ warbird to learn on, because it has the most wing area of the 3. It tends to be "floaty" which is a good thing for beginners because its stall speed is much slower than the Mustang or F190. I would recomend you get an Aerobird Challenger to introduce you to 3 channel, but of course you can learn on the Spitfire fairly easily. Just be prepared to get some repair work in, all you'd need would be some foam safe CA and actuator, and possibly some 5 minute epoxy or packing tape. All 3 of those can be bought at your local hobby shop, so if you are up to the challenge we're here to cheer you on. Once you get past the "fastness" of it (personally I don't think its fast at all...but I also think the Stryker C is kind of slower than I like so go figure) it is a pretty tame bird. Just be sure and give opposite roll input after turning, because as said before it won't roll back to straight and level on its own. You fly these planes with a bank and yank style...the more degrees of bank it has the tighter the turn can be, but you really have to ride the elevator with these because you NEED the elevator for turns.
Old 04-09-2007, 04:39 AM
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chipmeisterc
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Wow, this forum is pretty active, thanks for all the replies, definatley alot to consider.
I have been looking at a few more of the PZ warbird vids and some more posts, and it does seem they are quite prone to prop damage etc on landing, so the super cub is definatley looking more and more attractive. Something I will have to consider.

Just have to try and fight the temptation from the Spitfire which is for sale in the shop next door


Just out of interest, which simulators are you guys using? Is there a forum favorite?
Old 04-09-2007, 05:29 AM
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Hi chipmeisterc.

Get both..
If you do go for the Super cub, pop in here.
http://supercubclub.proboards78.com/index.cgi
It would be good to have another UK cubber on board.

I have had an XTR Reflex sim for a couple of years, and i think its brilliant. It also has a couple of Spitfires.
Old 04-09-2007, 05:43 AM
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?


ORIGINAL: chipmeisterc

Wow, this forum is pretty active, thanks for all the replies, definatley alot to consider.
I have been looking at a few more of the PZ warbird vids and some more posts, and it does seem they are quite prone to prop damage etc on landing, so the super cub is definatley looking more and more attractive. Something I will have to consider.

Just have to try and fight the temptation from the Spitfire which is for sale in the shop next door


Just out of interest, which simulators are you guys using? Is there a forum favorite?
Despite what other have said I will stand by my original views and say that you are making the right choice by getting the cub, another thing to consider is that even the most experienced guys that have a stack of 100mph+ planes still keep hold of a slow floaty plane for when they need to relax, if you got the cub thats one for your hanger that will stay there forever! Also remember this hobby is meant to be fun, unless you are a serious adrenalin junky flying with twitchy fingers and knocking knees is not much fun so you will most likely find learning on the cub much more fun anyway, when you get really comfortable picking up the spit will be easy.
Old 04-09-2007, 06:44 AM
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Yeah-- a floaty plane is definitely fun. I've been flying a Slow Stick, stock, for nearly a year now (with no winter flying) and love it. I'll soon be building a second one and equipping it with a brushless/LiPO setup for better performance in wind.
The Formosa has been recommended to me as a good low wing aileron trainer, and I have a slope version which I'll be building soon, with the same power setup. I have warbird fever too, but I'm trying to control myself until I can fly the Formosa confidently. I've considered painting the Formosa to look sort of like a P-51 just to have it look like a warbird, but have decided on a different, rather comical paint scheme. I'll post pics when I build it.
Old 04-09-2007, 07:54 AM
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chipmeisterc
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Been watching a few of the vids for these Super Cubs, for the price doesnt seem you can beat them.
Are you guys running them stock?
Old 04-09-2007, 09:03 AM
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

I have one stock sc for training others but the other 4 are modded to the wing tips. It is definatley a plane you can grow with. I personally use the Great Planes G3.5 simulator and love it. I have all the expansion packs and one heck of a video card to run it. What one are you using?
Old 04-09-2007, 01:16 PM
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?


ORIGINAL: chipmeisterc

Been watching a few of the vids for these Super Cubs, for the price doesnt seem you can beat them.
Are you guys running them stock?

Check out some mods here:

[link=http://www.ampaviators.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=17&Itemid=28]Super Cub Articles[/link]

The SC is a great trainer that can grow with you as your skills improve - when you're ready, you can mod it for ailerons.
Old 04-09-2007, 04:12 PM
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Default RE: Anyone recommend Parkzone Spitfire to relative beginner?

Or just leave it be and buy that spitfire...

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