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Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

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Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Old 06-24-2009, 03:19 AM
  #51  
Gryphon
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

moparmyway,

You get over 99.9% credit because it is all your stuff.

The reason that I thought of that initial idea weeks ago was to stop you from giving someone I didn't like too much a single available motor for him to keep. [sm=tongue_smile.gif]
{Folks; that person was not on our thread}

But the idea of the traveling motor sure morphed into something a whole lot better and bigger.

I'm very impressed with what you are doing for the folks and the thread.

I look forward to seeing its fruits.




p.s. Anyone saw the movie called: Traveling pants, or the sisterhood of the traveling pants? (3 girls passed around a pair of jeans)


Gryphon
Old 06-24-2009, 08:26 AM
  #52  
Dreadan
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

You can purchase a replacement case also Mopar.

http://www.servocity.com/html/hitec_...case_sets.html
Old 06-24-2009, 09:14 AM
  #53  
chippedprop
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Hey guys

looks like part 8 is off and running ( flying ).

I'm taking a little break from the thread but I'll be back soon. I'll be watching on the side lines. I'll start posting as soon as I get the bugs worked out on the radical front mounted (motor) Stryker

Starting to feel like someone doesn't want this project to work. I'll not give up.


I've enjoyed hosting part 7. I know Mopar will continue on.

I hope in the up coming weeks and months to get to fly with as many Stryker fans as time and distance will allow.
It's always a treat to meet other rc pilots who share the same strong feelings for RC. So far I haven't meet a single guy who I haven't felt a brotherhood connection.

We who once in a while fly or the serious guy or the mfg. all share a common bond .....Radio Control. It drives us.. it is always on our mind, we get excited when you get to the field.
We just can't get enough.

Hind sight is a wonderful tool. Could things on the thread be better...sure. Just remember it's very easy to sit and be critical...but unless you have actually run a thread just smile and be nice.

Help and encouragement goes a loooooong way.


Chippedprop is going flying............YES !!!!!!!!
Old 06-24-2009, 07:41 PM
  #54  
bhoges17
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Yes I think Mopar will be a costly influence on me. He's got the speed bug. So far I got my stock setup to do mid 80's level and 100 in a dive. I love this plane. Cant wait to hit 120 or so.
Old 06-25-2009, 01:14 AM
  #55  
moparmyway
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

ORIGINAL: Dreadan

You can purchase a replacement case also Mopar.

http://www.servocity.com/html/hitec_...case_sets.html
Thanks Dreadan, but those were HS82mg's and I do NOT like them. No bearing on output shaft, and you can see that in the picture. I donated that one to scrap, and gave the other one away to someone who needed it. HS85mg's are all I will use for MAX effort. Do not get me wrong here, 82 will work out good, especially if you put an "O" ring UNDER the servo arm when you attach the arm to the servo, but you will still see some elevon wobble resulting from the play at the output shaft, 85's eliminate that totally, and at very high speeds, you want all of the Murphy repellant as possible !!!!!!

__________________________________________________ ___________________

Bhoges17,
120 or so might NOT happen on stock elevons too easily...................
You might want to re-think that build if you are looking for more than 110-115 mph
120 and up require much stiffer elevons and airframe to fly straight. You might hit 120, but you will see yourself moving that right stick into the upper right corner, you wont know it untill your stick is stuck in the corner, then you will eithor cut back on throttle, or watch your build corkscrew into the ground.

My advice..................install bass wood trailing edge and 1 1/2 elevons NOW !!!!!!!
lets also get you some more CF for your frame. If Dick is out, I have some.

__________________________________________________ ___________________

Chippedprop,
Thanks for all of your work and effort on Part 7, good luck with FMS and your flying !!!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________________________________________ ___________________

Boosted,
Motors arrived and in my possession right now. Will begin testing today, will let you know when ready for next step !!

__________________________________________________ ___________________

Gryphon,
Thank God you decided a long time ago to just post facts. Having someone post a motor table (on another thread) then admitting that all of the data could be suspect because it relies on information found on the web, without any first hand testing...................................

WHAT ????

Did I read that correctly ????

I will bet you that un-named individual does NOT even have a wattmeter, he obviousely skipped that question also !!!

Nothing like saying "You can try this, but do not try it because it might not work unless you research it some more"[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

Old 06-25-2009, 01:54 AM
  #56  
Gryphon
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Here is the main part of my C.F. layout for 140+MPH Stryker.

This is for a Stryker that will not get glassed so it needed 3 C.F. across.
(2) C.F. across might have worked at very high speed but 3 is safer. Especially better after a few mishaps in future that could damage some of the C.F.

There will be 2 more skewered in from the front going back 10.5" each.

There will be some criss crossing of shorter pieces in rear. Also (2) diagonals going to the far corner of wing's T.E. with each starting as near the center of rear main C.F. as possible.


More pics in future.

I like to finish this one in 9 days, go on a 2 week trip and maiden as soon as I get back.


Gryphon
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:06 AM
  #57  
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

bhoges17,

The 2 long ones that you have in front will help only during a nose in crash. 1 would have worked, with 2 you are fairly safe and it is a bit of an over kill...all fine.

If you wanted to add more C.F. where you need it in HIGH SPEED flight, then just cut through the 2 C.F. running from front to rear.
The first 2 C.F. will have their most usefulness in the front section....at the very rear they will not help so much. But hey if you make a nice tight cut through those 2 C.F. just wide enough for the extra C.F. which you want to add (running from left to right), and then they can still retain their max usefulness in a nose in compression deal.

So you are doing fine and all is well.

Make sure that the C.F. will not interfere with motor mount screws.



Have fun,


Gryphon
Old 06-25-2009, 02:10 AM
  #58  
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

So people, I have a question.


***How do you ensure that the wing is level/flat when installing your first C.F.?


Let's give each other pointers and help make it easier.




Gryphon
Old 06-25-2009, 08:14 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Dam do I hate water based paint. This stuff is slow to dry and coverage sucks. After 7yrs as a auto body painter Im spoiled by high speed clears and 3 coat finishes. Im not going to crazy on the paint since if this plane goes as fast as I'd like it might not last too long. I did a simple 2 tone yellow top and blue bottom. Should be complete on sat and ready to fly.
Old 06-26-2009, 08:43 AM
  #60  
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

I used nichrome wire from a model rocket engine wire to melt the foam and then set the CF tube in the cutout and then checked that the wing was not bent and then used epoxy with micro balls to set it in place. the next time I do this I will but the bass wood on the trailing edge first to help keep the wing from bending
Old 06-27-2009, 12:28 AM
  #61  
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Thought you all could use some entertainment...Heres a vid of my 2K Spider Stryker...

[link]http://www.2kool4u.com/stryker/2kstryker6s.shtml[/link]
Old 06-27-2009, 01:24 AM
  #62  
Gryphon
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Moparmyway,

Looks like our favorite antagonist is back…Finster.
Didn’t he say that he is going away and not coming back as he spilled his last poison ripping into me?

I hope he does not get 10 cents worth of business/sales off of this thread till he apologizes for making a mess on several threads including the Dark side Part 7.

His personal attacks on you and me were totally uncalled for while we were helping folks.

His foul language calling you and I bad names and cuss words were only a small part of his mess.

How much you want to bet that he is not done making a mess?

I purposely did not report his last post so we can point everyone to it.

A second bet on the cuss words and various tactics that he will use to try and hurt us and this thread.

3rd bet on him apologizing…nah that would be a losing bet, because you know he will jab at one or both of us in some way or another.


I am amazed he posted here. Let's see if he keeps it clean or better yet to just go away in a totally peaceful way.

For now flying slow enough to not have unwanted pitch up seems to satisfy him that he was right.

Moparmyway, as you know above 120-125MPH the stock Stryker airframe's design causes unwanted pitch up and it gets worse and worse in a big huge way with further increase in speed…On my 3S flights (MEGA 16/25/2 2650KV) at same speeds as his I had no pitch up issues (about 115 MPH range). So forward C.G. is a must for Ultra Strykers as proven by many many people.

_________________

***In the interest of full disclosure: I have used several different methods to cut the C.F. groove. The hacksaw method that I now use to cut the channel for C.F. was learned through Finster.
There it didn’t kill me to say that I learned something from him…namely only 1 thing, the hack saw method. I give credit when credit is due. I have given him credit for that thing numerous times.
I have quietly sent him several PMs to help him in the past.
Credit dictates that it is best that he goes away quietly…and cleanly if he is an honorable man.


Later,

Gryphon
Old 06-27-2009, 02:00 AM
  #63  
Gryphon
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

To my friends,
My answer to post #58 above. “How to ensure the wing is level for C.F. install” (I rambled on more than that though).

I’M SURE THIS IS NOT THE BEST METHOD BUT WORKS FOR ME…AND WORKS GOOD TOO.

Stryker wings point up a little (It has some Dihedral angle in it).
For better performance at high speed, I prefer to get the wing as flat on the bottom as I can get it.

So with wing upside down, the wings point down towards the table.
With the wing upside down, I put something near the Leading edge of the wing (close to where the C.F. is to be installed). That will elevate the wing off of the table while upside down.

Then I see how the C.F. sits in the previously cut groove/channel.
Previously I make sure that it is almost deep enough but not deep enough yet.

At this point the C.F. is not fully seated ……AND although the C.F. is straight, I can see that the wing’s surface dips down as it gets further away from center on each side.

See pic:
I weight the middle of the fuse down with some weights (remember the outside ends at L.E. are supported above table on other side of wing). I add just enough weight to middle of fuse with random objects till the wing’s surface seems level with the flat C.F.
Remember the C.F. is still not fully seated because the groove is not deep enough yet.

**Make sure that the C.F. install location does not interfere with the motor mount screws.

See pic:
***Now I deepen the channel just enough till my C.F. is just barely below the surface of the foam….fairly flush with foam surface but deeper by thickness of a 3-4 printer papers. Don’t go too fast and check the dept often.
While I cut some foam off in various areas as needed, I install the C.F. to check and then remove it several times to see which areas needs to get a little deeper……Better to check many times than to be sorry…Take your time and do it right.

For main C.F. (running left to right) I prefer to use 30 minute epoxy.

One more thing, since we are making such a big cut the rear portion of the wing (behind the channel) will have a tendency to hang down. So after epoxy is applied and the C.F. has been pushed down flush with surface of wing, I put some 3” or 4” packing tape strips in various areas running from front to rear to pull the foam section back up against the C.F. so that surface remains level with front of C.F. and not hang down (with fuse upside down as in pic).
I use bubble level or straight edge to make sure that I apply enough pressure with tape to hold the foam in place (not too lose or too tight).

During the next 1/2 hour, I ensure that the C.F. stays fully seated and push it back down as needed. I wipe away any excess epoxy that has oozed out, and clean the area with rubbing/Isopropyl alcohol on paper towel (moist but not dripping paper towel), and then apply a new piece of packing tape to that section. Precut stack of paper towels aid me in my cleanup work and I toss them in a shopping plastic bag, not in garbage can).{ See pic}

It sucks that I have to keep at it for like ½ hour and keep C.F. down, keep cleaning, reapplying new small section of packing tape, but the finished job looks insanely clean….obviously the packing tape never gets a chance to stay long enough on epoxy to dry that way….all epoxy gets cleaned…at the end there is no epoxy on top surface when I use C.F. trip and final packing tape used in the area will be tossed away too.

Since I prefer to use C.F. strip instead of C.F. tube because the finished job is Ultra clean, and also less Epoxy weight gets added and it gives more rigidity for rear section when running across the middle(side to side).

Strips have rectangular cross section and need to get installed sitting on their thin edge, means their wider side stands vertical. This gives all of its benefit for the direction that we need it to fight up and down flap.

C.F. Tube (hollow) is great option and has strength in various directions but is not as stiff as C.F. strip in up and down direction…close though.

C.F. rod is a term commonly used but the actual rod is solid center and for same weight as tube(rod will be smaller diameter) it gives you less strength In most needed situations….people use the term commonly but usually don’t buy the actual solid rod.

I do install .210” outer diameter C.F. tubes as well, but I use them in other locations. Previously I used C.F. tubes with success at 120+MPH…for those speeds I prefer to see it doubled up so the plane can by more reliable after some mishaps.
My pic shows 3 main C.F. in rear because I want it to be 130+MPH…actually 140+MPH in my case.
More C.F. will be added before my current build is finished.
(Not al pics in this post are from same build).

__________________________________________________ _______________

Friends,
I am sure that I could have done a better job in my description above……..SO FEEL FREE TO ASK FOR CLARIFICATION IN A POST OR PM.
Or ask for additional info……LOL…..this post started as a description of how to ensure the wing is level and it turned into an semi complete way of installing C.F. (but not complete) so feel free to ask questions.



I wish you all a great weekend.

With peace and respect,

Gryphon
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:40 AM
  #64  
moparmyway
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Gryphon,
NICE pictures !!
We need more pictures from everyone, and video also !!!!!

You are correct, looks like Finster cant keep his word.

I am through with him, tried several PM's as well....................time wasted

To keep the wing level, I prop the fuse upside down as well, but with the hot glue, it only needs you to hold it for about 3 minutes.
Hot glue also doesnt need denatured alcahol for cleanup, and you can allways re-melt it for adjustments if needed............................cant do that with epoxy !!!!!

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

Lets add some elevons and bass wood trailing edge to this build........................
We left off here...

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Old 06-27-2009, 05:46 AM
  #65  
moparmyway
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Lay the bass wood (3/8 x 3/16) along its thin edge and mark the foam for removal.

**You will want to doublecheck the basswood when looking at it to ensure that the grain of the wood runs left/right so we use it for its strength to assist in keeping a straight wing while elevons are hitting major air**

Line up the trailing edge with the bass, hold it steady and guntly mark foam with your pencil. I usually check several different views to make sure everything is good. The old LAR (Looks About Right) method works great here !!!
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:50 AM
  #66  
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Next I use a utility knife and ensure that it is helt perpendicular (90 degrees) to the bottom of the fuse. This will ensure a straight trailing edge to attach the bass wood to. Take your time here, and a hint is to slide the knife along the edge while keeping maximum contact with the foam. Angle the knife so the tip just exits the foam, this will allow you to slice the foam instead of cutting or seperating it. Here we check to see that the cut is perpendicular to the bottom of fuse
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:55 AM
  #67  
moparmyway
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Lets get the CA hinges and toothpicks ready !!!!!
Lay the hinges where you want them (I put them where the stock ones would have gone. Running over 140mph and you will want more than 4 hinges. In Nemesis, there is 6 on each wing !! ) and mark the bass wood where the hinges will sit. Then measure the toothpick diameter and drill pilot holes in trailing edge for toothpicks to stake into foam and hold the wood to the foam while the glue cools. I install a toothpick in between every hinge and on each end, just outside of the end hinges.
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Old 06-27-2009, 06:10 AM
  #68  
moparmyway
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

You want to lay a bead of glue along the cut foam line. As soon as you can, after the glue is down, grab the bass wood and put it against the foam. Line up the BOTTOM of the bass with the BOTTOM of the foam and begin to put in your toothpicks starting from the center and working out, bending the wing if needed to keep the bottom of the bass even with the bottom of the foam as you go along. Insert the toothpicks as far as you can with a pair of needlenose pliars, do not try to use just your fingers, you might end up sticking the toothpick through your finger, or worse in between 2 fingers. (Do NOT ask me how I know)
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Old 06-27-2009, 06:17 AM
  #69  
moparmyway
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Look at the bottom of fuse, bass should be even with the foam. Now look at the top....................different story there.
The top needs some trimming !!!!

I use the same utility knife for the rough trim of the top. You want to just scrape off the bass so it curls
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Old 06-27-2009, 06:37 AM
  #70  
moparmyway
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Next I use a half round Bast- file and I do everything I can to get the bass wood to conform to the shape of the wing. The knife and file job should only take 15-20 minutes for both wings, top and bottom.

**The key (in my opinion) is to get the bass wood as part of the trailing edge, keeping all of the airstream flowing over the trailing edge, not hitting it.
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Old 06-27-2009, 06:48 AM
  #71  
moparmyway
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Next is to line up the hinges with the elevon. I have used 5/16 x 1 1/4 and also 3/8 x 1 1/2 aileron stock. My personal choice is the 1 1/2 because if you have too much (???) surface area, you can allways dial in expo or use dual rates and lower the throws. BUT if you go heavy (big battery, fiberglass, etc...) you will want all of the throws you can get. The heavier planes come in at well over 45mph and do NOT like to land slow, so you will need MAXIMUM deflection to keep the nose up while coming in !!!

Mark the hinges and use a hobby knife to CAREFULLY slice an opening for the hinge. The key here is to ensure the knife does NOT exit the elevon. If it does, the elevon is junk and you will need to get another one. TAKE YOUR TIME HERE .....................keep all fingers and blood to yourself !!!

You will need to slide the elevon back and forth in order to seat the hinges while pushing down.

** THIS IS THE HARDEST PART OF ALL...... KEEPING THE HINGES FROM BENDING, and you will also need to keep the hinge in place so it will not get buried into the wing as you press and wiggle the elevon into place. You can use a "T" pin, (or a toothpick) through the hinge on the wing to keep it in place while you install the elevon.

If you use the toothpick, you will just cut it flush on top and bottom AFTER CA dries.

Notice in #3 picture, the Bass trailing edge and elevon are longer than the wing..................this is done so that the elevon or the bass wood does NOT split. If you try to cut a slice for the CA hinge too close to the edge, it WILL split !!!!

We can trim it to size once the glue dries
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:20 AM
  #72  
moparmyway
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

NOW for the big question....................
How much gap do you leave between the elevon and the trailing edge ?

There are 2 schools of thought here............
#1. Leave ZERO gap. This takes painstaking time but should be well worth it if you do it perfectly. to get it perfect, you will need to file / cut angle on elevon so that when fully deflected, there is still zero gap.

#2. Leave a small gap that will be sealed up with hinge tape. This is what I do, it works fine at speeds exceeding 150 mph, as well as slow putterin around the local field. I will go over taping this hinge later in the build.

It is time to decide which way to install.......................it is up to you !!!


I run MAXIMUM throws, like I said, but in order to get them, you will need to deflect the elevon BEFORE glueing them in. When you deflect them, the elevon will pull out a little, leaving a small gap, but allowing you to do this............
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:41 AM
  #73  
moparmyway
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Remember, maximum throws are NOT needed for normal baseball field flying Strykers.

BUT.............if you are into stunts, low and slow, crazy speed or just want the extra throw to stick a hot landing....................then run max throws !!!!!

*crazy speed only needs max throws for landings and takeoffs. The planes weight will start drastically increasing from battery weight and glass / re-enforcements so you will have to lift more weight and will be going faster on your landings, you will want your max throws here, as you go slower, flight controlls become less responsive, we all know that, but at 50mph (minimum) landing speed, NEMESIS needs every mm of throw to be able to maneuver while landing. I live in NY, there isnt much room out here for long fast heavy landings, so I fixed that problem with HUGE throws and BIG elevons and now I can at least put her down in the space of 2 ballfields*

This gap will give this throw !!!!!

***REMEMBER..............I am going to be sealing the gap, and the tape will also stiffen up the elevons movements in a vertical plane, so that at any speed there is NO flutter ***

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Old 06-27-2009, 08:14 AM
  #74  
moparmyway
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Now use CA for glueing the hinges. I use 3 drops on each side of each hinge. Instead of flexing the hinge 10,000 times while it is drying, I flex it several times after glue is applied, then let the glue dry while plane is hanging. After it dries (usually overnight) you can flex the hinge as many times as you want, but let it dry without any kicker. The idea is that the hinge fibers absorb the CA, and the wood grain will also do the same on elevon and bass trailing edge. You want slow dry, thin CA for this. The thinner and slower drying, the better................you want it to absorb then dry.
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Old 06-27-2009, 08:51 AM
  #75  
moparmyway
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Default RE: Official F27 Stryker Part 8: Beginners to Custom Darkness

Side note..............

You can get elevon stock with an angle cut on both sides of its leading edge, or you can get squared elevon stock

EITHOR WAY..................

Be sure to get your angle the same along its entire length
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