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parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

Old 10-10-2009, 09:19 PM
  #1  
Eflyer177
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Default parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

hi all

iv had my parzone 109 for about 2 weeks now and iv flown it about 5 times. it flies great but theres one problem when i land the model it bounces really bad and swerves and flips over upside down just about everytime and yes i know how to land properly i can land just about and bird out there with perfection but this ones a little tricky is there anything i could do such as a modification to fix this problem?

thanks
Old 10-11-2009, 08:42 AM
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jmir
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

Sounds like you are landing on a grass field. You may want to bring it in at a higher speed.
Assuming you can taxi around without it nosing over, then add some up elevator when it lands and give it a little throttle as when taxing it around.
Old 10-11-2009, 10:25 AM
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Eflyer177
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

yea actually im landing on a road but i guess its all about landing it just right lol
Old 10-11-2009, 02:19 PM
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CBM Racing
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

Try to keep the speed up higher than you know you need, and fly it right down to touch down. If you know you can fly at 1/4 throttle level and slow, then on down wind leg reduce throttle to just above that setting. Then, on final approach, set throttle at 1 or 2 clicks above that, and fly it onto the the road. After touchdown, if you're not lined up good, you have plenty of speed for instant takeoff if you need to go around again. If, after touchdown, things are looking ok, chop the throttle and let the tail settle while using rudder to maintain rollout line without using elevator once on the road/ground. Sounds easy heh heh, and with practise it kinda is, but that's half the fun, making a nice scale landing the pilot could walk away from. If you try to land at a slower speed like with tricycle gear you will most likely bounce or flip over, so keep the speed up more than you need for level flight and the aerodynamic forces will prevent the bouncing or flipping. Remember to fly it to the ground, not dive. With practise, it'll be a thing of beauty!
Old 10-12-2009, 05:14 PM
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440GTX
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

I agree with the speed. You cannot float this plane down.
Here is another possible soloution. The Landing gear is very tall .
I am in the process of making a new shorter set . A full 3/4 " shorter
This will bring the Horizontal. CG down which " I think will help the nose overs on landings "
Another thing I noticed it has No or Very Little toe in. Add a small amount of toe in.
I will find out with mine next weekend . Weather permitting
Old 10-13-2009, 06:12 AM
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David Eichstedt
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

Also check to make sure your lg are in the right way. There's a slight forward angle to them, and it is possible to install them backwards. If they're backwards, it's going to nose over just about every time.

The 109 is more difficult to land than the other ParkZone warbirds, but learning to do it well is part of the fun. I think power-on wheel landings might be easier to master than three-point landings. They're certainly less bouncy.
Old 10-13-2009, 11:52 AM
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Eflyer177
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

well thanks guys for all your help and i understand about landing a bit fast but the reason i had to try to float it in was because the road i land on has two speed bumps sadly they just put them in there and theres not much room to come in touch down and stop and plane for that matter ill probly just fly my 109 at the regular club field instead of the float fly site
Old 10-19-2009, 01:43 AM
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

I put the ME109 up this weekend without the flaps option. I found that putting the ailerons in spoileron mode (both up) versus flaperon mode (both down) made the plane float nicely and come in like the T-28. Just a little bit of down elevator and it landed perfectly. Before hand I was landing normally or with flaperons and noticed I had to land fast or it would tip stall or flip forward and do a 3-point with the prop. Going to spoileron mode fixed all of that. Simple flick of the toggle switch on the radio. Consult your radio guide on how to set it up - You will need individual RX controls (no Y splitter) to setup flaperon/spoileron modes.

JC
Old 10-19-2009, 02:33 PM
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David Eichstedt
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues


ORIGINAL: johnpcunningham

I put the ME109 up this weekend wihtout the flaps option. I found that puttin the ailerons in spoileron mode (both up) versus flaperon mode (both down) made the plane float nicely and come in like the T-28. Just a little bit of down elevator and it landed perfectly. Before hand I was landing normall or with flaperons and noiced I had to land fast or it would tip stall or flip forward and do a 3-point with the prop. Going to spoileron mode fixed all of that. Simple flick of the toggle switch on the radio. Consult your radio guide on how to set it up - You will need individual RX controls (no Y splitter) to setup flaperon/spoileron modes.

JC
There's nothing like first-hand experience! What you experienced is why you never want to program flaperons on a bird with outboard ailerons. By dropping them as flaperons, you've just increased the local angle of attack at the tip (washin) instead of decreasing it (washout), which leads to nasty tip stalling tendencies.
Old 10-19-2009, 03:26 PM
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johnpcunningham
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

Agreed. This is typical of the low wing planes and just the opposite of the hotliners which has the ailerons close to the fuse.
Old 10-30-2009, 02:05 PM
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

ORIGINAL: johnpcunningham

I put the ME109 up this weekend without the flaps option. I found that putting the ailerons in spoileron mode (both up) versus flaperon mode (both down) made the plane float nicely and come in like the T-28. Just a little bit of down elevator and it landed perfectly. Before hand I was landing normally or with flaperons and noticed I had to land fast or it would tip stall or flip forward and do a 3-point with the prop. Going to spoileron mode fixed all of that. Simple flick of the toggle switch on the radio. Consult your radio guide on how to set it up - You will need individual RX controls (no Y splitter) to setup flaperon/spoileron modes.

JC
I just assembled my BF-109, but I haven't flown it yet. I'm worried about landing it, so I want to try the "spoileron" solution. Sounds like a cool alternative to adding flaps. I think we can use the stock AR-500 receiver and separate the ailerons by putting one of them on the GEAR channel, is that right?

If I remember correctly, I think my radio's manual (Spektrum DX7) mentions FLAP and AUX1 channels for flaperon/spoileron setup, but I assume it can be done with the GEAR channel as well. I'll find out soon enough. Assuming all goes well, I'll let everyone know how the maiden flight goes!

Old 10-31-2009, 11:21 PM
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DaveJ_RC
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues



Well, I finally have my radio (Spektrum DX7) configured for spoilerons, I think. :-)



I used the "Trainer/Flap" rocker switch, which is not just ON/OFF; you can do full-range adjustments (-100% to +100%). I set it up like this:



* push switch UP to center the ailerons anywhere above the wing (spoilerons?)
* center the switch to center the ailerons with the wing (normal ailerons)
* push switch DOWN to center the ailerons anywhere below the wing (flaperons?)



At first, I tried configuring the ailerons as "flaperons" according to the DX7 manual (where wing type = "flaperon"). Acording to the Servo Monitor screen, the radio apparently uses channels AILE and FLAP for the ailerons. The manual says to put 2nd aileron on "AUX1", which doesn't exist on my radio or on the AR-500 receiver! So, nothing worked as expected. Moving the aileron stick LEFT would cause both ailerons to move UP together what??? Moving aileron stick RIGHTcaused both ailerons to move down. So, there's no way to level the wings! This CAN'T be right, can it? I would still have to mix the FLAP channel to GEAR for it to work with the AR-500 receiver, but it would not work as expected anyway.



So, I did it manually, step by step. Since the ailerons need to be on different channels, first you have to set up the GEAR channel (assuming you're using the stock AR-500 receiver) to imitate the existing aileron (AILE) channel. To do this, I used mix #5: AILE -> GEAR (rate +100%, offset 0). Why mix#5? Well, on the DX7, mix#5 (or mix#6) will mix in the TRIM setting, so in this case the aileron trim setting gets passed through to the GEAR channel as well, which is VERY convenient. I checked the Servo Monitor again. It was working fine, until I flipped the "landing gear" (LG) switch! The LG switch (landing gear input) screws up the aileron on the GEAR channel! This is an accident waiting to happen. There's no way to INHibit the landing gear switch, so I had to figure something out. I fixed it by mixing the GEAR channel WITH ITSELF: GEAR -> GEAR, offset 0, rate -100%. This negative rate causes the gear input to essentially cancel itself out, so the LG switch no longer screws up the GEAR channel. Now the GEAR channel can be safely used for an aileron.



So, at this point, the DX7 radio is configured for two separate aileron channels, AILE and GEAR, which is compatible with the AR-500 receiver. I left the Y-splitter cable in place with the left aileron still connected to AILE. I simply disconnected the right aileron and used a 12" servo extension cable to reroute it to the GEAR channel on the AR-500. So far, everything works as if I hadn't changed anything at all. That's a good thing. :-)



The next step was to mix the "flap" input with the left aileron, so that pushing the switch UP adjusts the aileron UP, and switch DOWN adjusts aileron DOWN. As I mentioned, I configured the "Trainer/Flap" rocker switch as the flap/spoiler input (on Input Select screen, set FLAP:ROCKER). I set up the first flap mix: FLAP -> AILE (offset 0, rate +50%). So, if I adjust the flap input to 100%, the aileron will deflect only 50% as a result (I hope this is sufficient). This worked as expected for the left aileron, but it introduced an unexpected influence on the right aileron. I originally mixed AILE -> GEAR to create the 2nd aileron channel. So, this new flap input gets through to the GEAR channel (i.e. my right aileron) through these two mixes: FLAP -> AILE and AILE -> GEAR. Therefore, I had to create yet another mix to cancel out this influence. I mixed FLAP -> GEAR (offset 0, rate -50%); note the negative rate to cancel out the first (undesired) flap mix.



To finish, I just needed to mix the flap input with the right aileron: FLAP -> GEAR (offset 0, rate -50%). Note that this mix is identical to the previous mix, as it should be. The first FLAP->GEAR mix cancels the undesired input from the left aileron, whereas this one adjusts the right aileron in coordination with the left aileron.



One last thing: on myservo reversing screen,AILE and GEAR are both "Reverse" mode, but FLAP is "Normal" mode. Well, that's about it. It was too windy and rainy today, but weather permitting, I hope to try the maiden flight tomorrow!

Old 11-01-2009, 10:42 PM
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

Since DOWN is not an option that you want to use, you my try two levels of Spoileron mode and see which one works better for you. Example: Centered, 25% up, 50% up.
That is what I did and it seems to work out well.

JC
Old 11-02-2009, 01:34 AM
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues



My maiden flight with the BF-109 was a success! What a relief to bring it home in one piece. Until now, I've been flying hand-launched belly-landers. This is my first "real" plane with wheels and rudder, so I spent a lot of time practicing taxiing on the grass. It was well worth the experience. I only had time for 3 short flights before sundown. My takeoffs were awkward. It flipped up and to the left; I recovered, but I'll have to work on handling the torque roll. Also, I had mechanically trimmed my elevator to be perfectly level with the tail, which apparently is way too much elevator already; the plane actually went vertical shortly after the first takeoff.



For all 3 landings, I used the "spoilerons", where the ailerons were both centered at 50% deflection above the wing. The first landing was beautiful, even though I cut power while still in the air. I was going fast enough, level and straight, so the landing was great. After the 2nd landing, it was standing on the nose, mostly because I ran off the runway into some rougher grass, and I forgot to use some UP elevator to keep the tail down. The 3rd landing was a little rough, but at least all the wheels were on the ground! The landings were all kinda fast, so I don't think I'm taking full advantage of the spoilerons yet. By the way, I did not have the gear doors attached to the landing gear I decided to keep the doors off.



These were the first 3 rolling landings that I've ever done (all with spoilerons), so I have nothing to compare them to. I'll have to try some "normal aileron" landings to see how much of a difference it makes.

Old 02-21-2011, 06:38 AM
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andernamen
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

Now you know why the Luftwaffe had such a problem with these things! Many were lost either taking off or landing. A full scale replica (or the real thing, not sure) was recently damaged on landing in Germany.
Old 02-23-2011, 01:08 PM
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

[8D] Great thread everybody!

Eflyer178 and DaveJ RC, welcome to the incomparable excitement of Messerschmitt adventures!

I wore down the tires rather badly on my first 109 ROG ground looping performances and never did manage to get airborne from a rather nice asphalt parking lot on my "maiden" (?). Equipped with very effective modified larger area flaps, and landing gear bent out and forward with adjustments to retain as much scale look as possible the ship is now my very favorite fun landing machine in mild weather on "average" grassy sports fields. Yes, it can still flip over on its back if I am not careful.

My newest killer 109 is second to none in landing performance! The key to victory here is spreading the landing gear way out and bending the gear forward so the axles are around 3/4 inch ahead of the wing leading edge. The stock prop tips with the fuselage level are about axle high. Except for the inverted crash discussed on the big 109 thread, ALL landings have ended with the plane on its three wheels - so far.

For wonderfully stable "tip stall free" flight, the CG is 1/8 inch ahead of the instruction book recommendation. Both ailerons are adjusted around 1/32 inch up from neutral. All control surfaces are adjusted for higher deflection angles to compensate for the more forward and stable CG location and easily allows all maneuvers I will ever need to fly.

The above adjustments do not allow much "toe in." I try to remember to adjust my slightly modified gear doors opposite of the wheels "toe in" to compensate for the undesirable "side effects" of such big wheels so far ahead of the wing leading edge.

Do we got fun, or what?!

ENJOY! "Aim High . . . Fly-Fight-Win!"

madwebtvscientist [sm=lol.gif] [sm=cry_smile.gif]____________________________________________ Modeling Promoting Bog: http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/...g&memid=266748 Modeling's rendezvous with destiny will surely be unstoppable when something greater than the narcissistic pleasure of a selfish esoteric chosen few is adopted in modeling.
Old 02-24-2011, 11:58 AM
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

Dear Mad,
Got photos of the splayed Bayerische Flugwerke 109 gear? Photo Illustrate immediatly!!! Jetz!!!

Oberst Galland
Old 02-24-2011, 10:10 PM
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Default RE: parkzone BF 109 touchdown issues

ORIGINAL: Saburo Sakai

Dear Mad,
Got photos of the splayed Bayerische Flugwerke 109 gear? Photo Illustrate immediately!!! Jetz!!!

Oberst Galland
Oberst Galland, the next URL brings up pictures of an "adequate" landing gear modified 109 that can work well under under good conditions. My new killer 109 landing gear modification is almost as wide as the gear on the pictured Corsair that was my best landing airplane at the time.

The beautiful thing about the new Messerschmitt is that there is enough flex because of the extreme angle of the landing gear wire that even less than perfect landings don't bend the gear back. The nose of the new 109 sits lower than that of the Corsair and the axles are 3/4 inch ahead of the wing leading edge with the fuselage level. Grass higher than the axles can be cut by the prop tips.

I will eventually get some pictures of the new machine posted along with newer planes that need to be shown off.

Stay tuned.

CALL TO GLORY!
http://community-2.webtv.net/RICHARD...ORY/page7.html

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/foru...smode_1/tt.htm is a URL that brings up other five star rated Ace Fighter threads that strongly suggests their modeling advertising value - not withstanding the new mollifying intruder "Johnny come lately" misfit.

ENJOY! "Aim High . . . Fly-Fight-Win!"

madwebtvscientist [sm=lol.gif] [sm=cry_smile.gif]____________________________________________ Modeling Promoting Bog: http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/...g&memid=266748 Modeling's rendezvous with destiny will surely be unstoppable when something greater than the narcissistic pleasure of a selfish esoteric chosen few is adopted in modeling.

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