Dave McDonald

My Feedback: (19)

Flying Pizza Box, Pizza Box Flyer, or PBF.

Whatever you want to call it, here's a web page I created with enough info to build one of these cool flying wings for yourself.....without having to wade through literally hundreds of posts on RCU.

If you like fun fly planes, you NEED a PBF!

http://mypage.yhti.net/~dmcdnld/pizzabox.htm

Please note that I'm still constructing this page, so at times it may look really screwy.

Constructive comments welcomed!

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

Nice plans Dave....

Have you looked at those Flippin' disks?? They're the ones with the pvc fuse and round disk type wing with a little airfoil worked into it...

I flew with a few from Arkansa and boy did I get my hat handed to me.... They totally outflew me.... Maybe it was just pilot... but that little plane really seamed to out manuver my pbf....

Dave McDonald

My Feedback: (19)

Paul,
Thanks for the compliment!

I've seen the Flippin' Disk here on RCU, but not in real life. I would love to get my thumbs on one to see how it compares to the PBF!

ksflyer-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks for the inspiration Dave! I started one last night.

See picture attached.

ksflyer-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

Dave,

I was wondering... I have some mini stuff, meaning Hitec 555 RX, and four HS-81 servo's. The 81's have almost as much torque as a standard servo, but are about the 1/3 the weight. Plus they are just sitting around taking up space Would these be strong enough to run the elevons plus the rudder?

Thanks,
KsFlyer

JayParke

If the mini servos put out as much torque then by all means use em. I'm sure they will work perfectly. And your plane will just be lighter which will give it a lighter loading. Which generally translates to the fun department.

Also I was wanting to say that I don't have one of these planes..... "yet.'' But if they just tool around flying slowly then I'm quite positive that the hs-81 will work wonderfully.

Josh

1Jimbo

My Feedback: (2)

The 81's should fine so long as you don't use it for combat. The gears seem to be VERY fragile. If you need metal gear sets you can get them for (I think) $14 from servo city. They don't charge for shipping.

ksflyer-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

I know Servocity well. They are just a short distance from my home and I deal with them on a daily basis at work building Servo Robots.

YLF

My Feedback: (2)

Better get the metal gears, I have a hunch your going to see some combat!

ksflyer-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

You better watch out, the pizza box is coming

I now have a plane I'm not afraid to crash

Dave McDonald

My Feedback: (19)

ksflyer,
Mini servos will work fine on a PBF. My first PBF used Futaba S-133 servos all around, and they are only rated at 27 oz/in of torque. The S-133 had fairly weak geartrains, but I haven't stripped one on a PBF yet.

My third generation PBF is is flying with with a TT 42GP and a MCP and uses Futaba S-132H for elevons and rudder. They're only rated at 25 oz/in of torque, but they work just fine.

J_R

Dave McD

I hate you. I have been doing this forever. I have built plane after plane, searching for just the right combination. Last week I found the other, longer, thread on the PBF. Do you know how long it takes to read that sucker? Now you reduce it to something that can be read in a few minutes. Of course, you did this after I completed my PBF.

I can't remember the last time I had this much fun. I am sure there will be several PBF's at the field shortly. The laughing and fun never seemed to stop. I had to put some wheels on along with a skid (we gots a paved runway surrounded by packed dirts). The thing took off in about 3 ft. The gear and skid added about 2 oz. I have an old OS 25 I stuck on it, along with a couple of $6 Cirrus servos. The thing seems wildly overpowered with the 25. How the heck do you control one with a .40 stuck on it. LOL. Never mind, that's for me to figure out next week. God, what a great plane!

Anyway, to you and FoamGuy.... Thanks

JR
AMA 732

ksflyer-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

I was wanting ask you Pizza box guys, how do you land. We were arguing about this last night at the field. I just assumed like any combat like plane, you would simply cut the power and coast it to the ground. However, a couple guys told me that it would fall out of the sky once power was cut. Do you guys glide them in or do you hover them in low and just let them fall.

Second question, does the heat make your coroplast get kind of saggy? After setting my PBF in the back of the truck yesterday, the sides were sagging because of the 1/2" brace in the middle.

Please advise.

archerry

My Feedback: (6)

WOOOW! WAY TOO KUWAL!

I actually saw J_R flying this at our field yesterday. I saw him crash nose in from radio inference (all of us were getting hit!!!) and the only damage was a busted prop...........!!!!

Actually, I want one now. Something this newby wants to fly without being afraid to crash!!!!

Great job!

I'm also now looking at building a box kite flyer with a Wright Flyer look... made out of coroplast. Anyone have plans for a box kit I can model from........

Unstable

you can land these things???? wow I have been going about it all wrong

really there are two ways that I know of to land.

the first (the method I use) is to get a good amount of air speed come in low and cut the engine. (remember the speed part PBFs glide like rocks)

the other way is to put it into a really low hover or high AA flight touch the tail then kill the engine and let it fall.

or like I end up doing more often is just fly it until you crash it its more fun (just buy alot of props before hand)

Mud Duck

My Feedback: (94)

Hey DAVE!!

Greetings from Jefferson City and the JCRC Club! Just wanted to let you know that my PBF is coming along fine, should have it flying soon. More than anything I wanted to let you and the others down there in Eldon know that I just posted a report about the Eldon R/C Fly-in, including photos & digital video of your PBF's on our website. Go to http://www.jcrc.com then click on the "Club News" link on the left menu bar, then click on the link or photo of the Eldon R/C Flightline about 1/2 way down on the right side column .

Thanks, Shaun

ksflyer-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

Dave,

First flight was made today. First thoughts, OS 35FP with a 10X4 APC is way too much prop and way to brittle First flight had not enough expo plus trims were backwards ?

Kind of twitchy as well. Hard to fly. Balanced at 5-5.5 " back. Any thoughts?

KsFlyer

Foamguy

I'm quite happy everyone is having so much fun with it. I've tried to launch several models I designed since I began flying RC and while I had some... marginal semi success with a few of them... most.. no one even wanted to look at, even though I think they were great planes. I NEVER, EVER thought the PBF ( as coined by Dave ) would take off like this. I've designed my own planes since basically day one in this hobby....and frankly, my own PBF efforts flew and did neat tricks... were hard to hang on to. I had much better luck with my delta wings of same design. Anyway, I'm happy I had this idea one day... somewhat surprised so many are having so much fun with it too. But really.... Dave McD is the guy thats making it work.... I havent been able to mess with it too much in a few months now. Right now, I am trying to get enough cash up to order an E3D. This is too good.... I love it. Well, off too the NW Seaplane Championships at Pine Hollow..... and next weekend... CD'ing the the first combat contest at Oregon Miniature Aircraft Squadron in 5 years... What an awesome hobby.

Foamguy

ksflyer-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

I could not type much earlier, but now I'll explain. First flight, OS 35 FP with 10X4 prop. Full throttle take off and she was gone. Back and forth rolls quickly, pitching up and down. I finallly got her under control. I brought her around and killed the engine to coast to a stop and break my first prop. I was running about 1" to 1-1/2" throws and 20% expo. I found out that my trims were exactly backwards so when I clicked the ailerons right, it went left and exactly the same on the rudder. I'm using a Hitec Eclipse.

Second flight, new prop, 11X4 APC now and a half throttle hand launch to a quick crash into the ground. I now had 50% expo on the ailerons and elevator.

Third flight, new 11X6 APC (its all I had left in my box) and were of to the races again. I flew it way out over the field and could not get it to come back. I spun her into the ground at about 30 Feet! Man, can this plane take a hit! only a broken prop.

Here are my feeligns. I'm thinking I'm trying to fly it too much like a regular plane. Since it has no airfoil, it won't fly straight and level right? It wants to dip up and down. Do I need to fly it at a constant angle of attack and just control the altitude by throttle? I'm also thinking of putting a 25LA or magnum 25 GP I have in the basement. It definately does not need any more power.

Please advise!!!

Mud Duck

My Feedback: (94)

ksflyer, sorry to hear that you're having problems getting your PBF to perform properly. I have one suggestion and that is to check out a couple of digital video clips I just posted today of - Dave McDonald - the man himself - launching and flying his PBF. The .AVI files aren't too big that you couldn't download them with a modem connection, it might take a little while, but it might give you some ideas.

First of all point your web browser to http://www.jcrc.com, then look at the top of the menu on the left side of the page where it says "Club News" and click on that link. When the "Club News" page opens up, pay attention to the column of text on the right and scroll down to where you see a link that says "Click here or on the photo to view photos & digital videos of the Eldon R/C Fly-in." and click on those words or the picture of the flightline just below them. When the Eldon R/C Fly-in page opens up, look for the two thumbnail photos that refer to VIDEO of the PBF &/or Dave McDonald and enjoy the show!! Hey, it's free!! You'll see how the pros launch & fly their PBF's.

Best of luck, I hope to test fly mine tomorrow.

Mud Duck (a.k.a. Shaun)

Dave McDonald

My Feedback: (19)

Mud Duck,
Welcome to RCU. Glad to see you here!
Those videos you made were great!
Let us know how your PBF test flight goes!



ksflyer,
Check out this video that Mud Duck made of me hand launching my Webra 32 powered PBF.
http://www.jcrc.com/images/ZIMages/E...e%20launch.AVI
Notice that the engine is only at about half throttle when the PBF is launched. Also notice how the nose is up at a considerable angle when I release the PBF. The point is that the PBF flys best when it's flying on the prop blast instead of flying on the wing.

If your PBF is dipping up and down when it's flying, then you are either flying too fast, or your CG is too far back. I haven't seen any evidence yet that the CG on a PBF is critical, so I'm guessing that you're going too fast.

Since Mud Duck did such a good job with these videos, maybe I can talk him into making some more PBF videos. This would help to explain what the PBF looks like when it's flying around, especially for those who haven't been exposed to 3D type flying before. Maneuvers like the Tidy Bowl Turn, spins, the barrel roll hand launch, hovering, torque rolls, and hand catching the PBF would probably make some entertaining videos. How about it Mud Duck, can I talk you into that?


Foamguy,
Maybe you should build a PBFF for that seaplane contest.
(PBFF = Pizza Box Float Flyer)

Hey, maybe you can get some PBF combat started!

Mud Duck

My Feedback: (94)

Dave you've got to know that there are few things I enjoy more than taking pictures or video, especially of R/C planes, and if you and I can get together for you to show me how to do all those fancy tricks I sure don't have any problem shooting the digital video!

I have most all of the equipment and software needed to do all sorts of fancy video editing and you're only a 35 minute drive away, so let me know when you plan on going out. Perhaps even tomorrow (Sunday) afternoon?

Besides, the video of someone hand catching a PBF with a 6000 rpm 10 X 4 APC hand-slicing prop could just end up making me a whole lot of money on that America's Funniest Video program! We'll just invest the money back into making more PBF's!!

JayParke

Heck yeah get them videos. I'm sure everyone else would love to see all that other crazy fun stuff. "Just don't do the hand slicing trick, I hear it's no fun."

Josh

Dave McDonald

My Feedback: (19)

Dazzler 2,
I'm flying two of my PBFs with a Futaba 8UAF, and the other PBF with a Futaba 7UAF.

Here are the 8UAF and 7UAF settings I'm using for my own PBFs:

Both elevator and aileron ATV adjustments settings should be set to maximum, (140% on the 8UAF, and 120% on the 7UAF). If any throw adjustments are needed on the plane, then adjust the mechanical linkages.

High Dual Rate to 100%, Low Rate to 60%.

Adjust all Elevon mix settings to either 100% or -100%, depending on the direction of travel of the servos.

Adjust the Expo setting to -60% on High Rates, and -40% on Low Rates.

Mud Duck

My Feedback: (94)

I may not have pizza, but I've got the PBF!! Yes it is ready to go. It has been balanced, throws are set, batteries are charged, now I'm just waiting for the wind to lay down so I can go out and give it a try.

I've taken it's 'newborn' photos. Here are two of them.



To view larger version of the photo above, click on this link...



To view larger version of the photo above, click on this link...

After reading the posts about the first PBF test flights, I have a feeling this is going to be very interesting, I'm excited. I'll report back tomorrow, possibly with a link to digital video of the first flight(s?).