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What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

Old 07-07-2004, 04:08 PM
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modestmagi
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Default What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

I am in the early stages of learning 3D.

My current TX doesn't have sufficient features or mixing abilities to let me properly set up my planes for 3D flying (spoilerons, etc).

I am using 6v NIMH battery packs, Futaba FP-R127DF receivers, and Futaba 3004 and Hitec 325 /625 servos.

The features that I know to look for are:

Dual rates for all control surfaces
Expo for all control surfaces
End point adjustment
Servo reversing
Flaperons
Spoilerons

Am I missing anything?

I'd also like to know what TX you use and why?

Note: Though I'd love to have Multiplex Evo, I can't afford one. Besides, it won't work with my receivers ... []
Old 07-07-2004, 04:34 PM
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jldecarlo
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

If you have Futaba Rx's you should go with a Futaba radio.

The 9C will clearly do everything you want, and I think the new 7C will as well.

I assume that when you say Flaperons, you mean Elev -> Flap mixing, and for Spoilerons you mean reverse Elev -> Flap mixing. E>F is built in to both, and there are programmable mixers for the reverse mixing.

If you want to mix out any knife-edge coupling (Rudder -> Elevator, Rudder -> Aileron) you will be better off with the 9C as it has more mixers.


Leonard
Old 07-07-2004, 04:40 PM
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wyflyer
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

I also recommend the 9c. I bought a 6xas, but sold it about a year later for a 9c. You will save money in the long run with the 9c.
Old 07-07-2004, 04:42 PM
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Razorback58
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

It depends on how much you want to spend! I personally use a Hitec Eclipse radio and have had good luck with it. I feel like I get more bang for my buck, and it will do most everything that the Futaba radio will do. You can also get it with the synthesizer pack that allows you to dial in any frequency. It is, however, limited to a 7 model memory. You might also want to check out some of the newer 6 channel radios from Futaba and Hitec. I haven't paid much attention to them, so I'm not sure if they have all of the same capabilities as the Eclipse or the 9C. Stay away from the Hitec Flash series of radios as you cannot use dual rates and expo at the same time. (duh...............). If you have the money, buy the 9C. If not, then the Eclipse will do you a good job also. My .02 1/2 worth.........
Old 07-07-2004, 07:40 PM
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wild fred
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

I fly an eclipse. I use expo on the edgeling elevator, and sometimes the dual rates on my other planes. that's about it. it will do about anything, including helicopters, and has spectra, which is handy, as I build and setup a lot of other people's stuff. But not really necessary otherwise. also has pcm, but the pcm receiver is in the spare box, as I have 8 models flying now with standard receivers, futaba 127 df's (2) slimline 8 (2) 555(2) electron 6 (2). personally the slimline 8 and electrons are my favorites. As far as batteries go, I lately prefer the 650 nimh hobbico on most of my 40 stuff, and 1650 6v on my stinger. the 9 channel futaba is a good tx also; and if you already running futaba receivers, I would stick with hitec eclipse or futaba9.
Old 07-07-2004, 07:40 PM
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modestmagi
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

I assume that when you say Flaperons, you mean Elev -> Flap mixing, and for Spoilerons you mean reverse Elev -> Flap mixing. E>F is built in to both, and there are programmable mixers for the reverse mixing.
Not sure, though I have wondered if they are the same. TX specs often list Flaperons/Spoilerons and the various mixes mentioned by jldecarlo as if they are different. Are they the same things?
Old 07-07-2004, 07:45 PM
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modestmagi
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

Razorback58 and will fred-RCU,

What, if anything does the Eclipse lack (besides fewer channels) when compared to the Futaba 9c?

How about the ease of programming?
Old 07-07-2004, 08:00 PM
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

they are not the same. flaperons is a mix that makes the ailerons to also act as Flaps, spoilerons are ailerons acting as spoilers. these mixes can be set up to operate from a variety of switches including the elev > flap switch. Basically what I am saying is that one control system performs dual duty.
Old 07-07-2004, 09:10 PM
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ParticleMan
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

ORIGINAL: modestmagi

Razorback58 and will fred-RCU,

What, if anything does the Eclipse lack (besides fewer channels) when compared to the Futaba 9c?

How about the ease of programming?
I own an eclipse, it's a good radio, but it doesn't have programmable switches like the 9c, no throttle curve, and no split elevator functions, those are the things I might use if I had, but I can live without them for the price difference. The 9c has a nice display that is higher resolution and easier to read/navigate, probably easier to programming because of that, but once you use a computer radio, they're all not very different. The spectra module is also nice on the eclipse.

THe things I use on my computer radio is the setup features, endpoints, sub trim, etc. and expo is also useful on 3D profiles. Flaperons I have programmed in but don't really use.
Old 07-07-2004, 09:25 PM
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Gordo-ProBro
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

I'll vote for the 9C as well. No serious knocks on the Hitec either. I have friends who have had trouble getting what they want on them, but it was probably just no knowing the programming.

If you can, go high end. I also did the 6Xas to save $. I also got rid of it!! It's a great sport radio, but that's it.

One thing that the 6X wouldn't do and I think the Hitecs are the same is use ch 5 for something other than gear. I think it's stupid to have a channel dedicated to one purpose, especially since SOOOO few planes need it. I wanted to use ch 5 for ailerons on a 5 ch rx and couldn't, and as stated before, it wouldn't handel split elevator and 2 aileron servos at the same time. Silly.

9C allows use of ch 5 for anything, mainly I use it for ailerons. And 9C does Crow, thow I never bothered!!
Old 07-07-2004, 09:44 PM
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Jim D
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

ORIGINAL: ParticleMan

ORIGINAL: modestmagi

Razorback58 and will fred-RCU,

What, if anything does the Eclipse lack (besides fewer channels) when compared to the Futaba 9c?

How about the ease of programming?
I own an eclipse, it's a good radio, but it doesn't have programmable switches like the 9c, no throttle curve, and no split elevator functions, those are the things I might use if I had, but I can live without them for the price difference.
Personally, the ability to do seperate elevator servos IS a show stopper for me. Even a U-Can-Do 46 size uses seperate elevator servos and a reversing Y-Harness doesn't allow near the accurate setup a radio with dual elevator functionality will. I fly a JR 8103DT, but since you already have Futaba Rx's get the 9C, it's a nice radio. And chances are you will never need or want a function it doesn't have.
Old 07-07-2004, 10:26 PM
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latch66
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

With already having Negative Shift RX's (Futaba's)

Go with the 9C. Best bang for the buck available today IMHO. By the time you limit out the 9C you will be ready for either a 9Z or a 10X.

Hitec has improved the Eclipse over the past few years, but the older ones are limited in what they can handle programming wise.
I have one of the older Eclipse and there are things my 8U will do that the my Eclipse will not handle. From what I hear the 9C and the 8U are comparable with each other as far as ability goes.
To be fair to the Eclipse, I have not been able to play with one of the new versions yet. If you do decide to go with the Eclipse, make sure you get the most recent program version.
Old 07-07-2004, 10:29 PM
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modestmagi
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

9C allows use of ch 5 for anything, mainly I use it for ailerons. And 9C does Crow, thow I never bothered!!
Ah, another important feature - crow. I just happen to have an Ultra Stick with flaps, but haven't been able to use crow yet, due to the limitations of my TX (or more likely, due to my lack of programming abilities). Does anyone know if the Eclipse supports crow?

... flaperons is a mix that makes the ailerons to also act as flaps, spoilerons are ailerons acting as spoilers.
I apologize, I was not clear in my question. I know that flaperons and spoilerons are different things, but what I am wondering is if flaperons are the same as flap to elevator mixing and if spoilerons are the same as reverse flap to elevator mixing or are these mixes different but complimentary?

I've noticed that no one has recommended the Airtronics RD 8000. The price is certainly right - any comments?
Old 07-07-2004, 10:46 PM
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Gordo-ProBro
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

I started with an airtronics many, many years ago. When I realized they had different connectors then every other brand, I decided I hated them forever. I know they have fixed it, but I hold grudges.

Seriously, I look at airtronics as I look at MAC computers. I'm sure they are fine, but if I need help, I don't anyone with a Mac, or an airtronics.

Those mixes are the same, don't sweat the terminology. Seems most of us have slowed or stopped using them after a while anyway!!
Old 07-07-2004, 10:49 PM
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cropdusterdave
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

I've heard excellent things about the RD 8000. For me, I could take the RD 8000, the 9C, or the Hitec. I only fly the smaller stuff so the Hitec has served me very well.
Old 07-08-2004, 11:13 AM
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Razorback58
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

ORIGINAL: ParticleMan

ORIGINAL: modestmagi

Razorback58 and will fred-RCU,

What, if anything does the Eclipse lack (besides fewer channels) when compared to the Futaba 9c?

How about the ease of programming?
I own an eclipse, it's a good radio, but it doesn't have programmable switches like the 9c, no throttle curve, and no split elevator functions, those are the things I might use if I had, but I can live without them for the price difference. The 9c has a nice display that is higher resolution and easier to read/navigate, probably easier to programming because of that, but once you use a computer radio, they're all not very different. The spectra module is also nice on the eclipse.

THe things I use on my computer radio is the setup features, endpoints, sub trim, etc. and expo is also useful on 3D profiles. Flaperons I have programmed in but don't really use.


I have to disagree with that a little. My radio does have some programmable switches. I'm thinking (boy, that's dangerous! ) that there are three swithces that you can program, including the channel 5 switch. I know that I have flaperons and spoilerons programmed on two different switches on mine. Not too sure about the throttle curve, but I do agree that it doesn't have the split elevator. If you can afford the 9C, then I would suggest doing so as it is definitely a better radio. You will, however, be able to do most everything that you need to do with the Eclipse. Both are good radios, with the 9C being the best.
Old 07-08-2004, 01:10 PM
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jldecarlo
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

I apologize, I was not clear in my question. I know that flaperons and spoilerons are different things, but what I am wondering is if flaperons are the same as flap to elevator mixing and if spoilerons are the same as reverse flap to elevator mixing or are these mixes different but complimentary?
It may be long-winded, but:

FLAPERONS: Using two channels, one to control each aileron servo separately. You can use a Y-harness to control two aileron servos (which is NOT flaperons), but using two channels allows you to set endpoint and centers for each servo independantly, as well as to program differential movement (more up than down on the aileron - usually not used in fun-fly planes). You can also drop or raise both ailerons with a switch or dial on the TX. This increases or decreases drag and lift and is also something that I don't use on a fun-fly.

Elev>Flap mixing: Requires flaperons. When you pull back on the right stick, the elevator goes up, and both ailerons go down. The ailerons will continue to move in opposite directions as the right stick is moved right or left. This will dramatically thighten loops and is very helpful on waterfalls and walls. I think it allows landing at slower speeds as well as shorter take-offs. I use this alot and fly with it ON most of the time on my profiles.

Elev>Spoileron mixing. Basically the same as Elev-Flap except that up elevator causes upward deflection of both ailerons. This is useful for harriers and elevator maneuvers. Useful, but not essential IMHO.

For my 3D planes, I program the Right hand center switch (three position on the 9C/9z) to give elev->flap when up, elev->spoiler when down, and be null when centered.

Note that to do any of these things the ailerons HAVE to be on different channels - a Y-harness will not work.

Hope this helps


Leonard
Old 07-08-2004, 08:19 PM
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modestmagi
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

This has been a terriffic thread. I have learned a great deal and thank everyone who has contributed.

I think I'll probably go with an Eclipse if it supports crow. Does anyone know? I have not seen it listed in reviews, catalogs, etc. as a feature.

Also, if anyone can tell me more about whether the RD 8000 supports flaperons, spoilerons, and crow I would greatly appreciate it.

The 9c sounds like THE 3D profile TX to have, but I am too poor to spend that kind of money unless there is nothing else suitable.

Seriously, I look at airtronics as I look at MAC computers. I'm sure they are fine, but if I need help, I don't anyone with a Mac, or an airtronics.
Gordo - I've always been an oddball, I prefer Linux and BSD. In keeping with tradition, maybe I should get a Tracker II.
Old 07-08-2004, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

ORIGINAL: modestmagi

Gordo - I've always been an oddball, I prefer Linux and BSD. In keeping with tradition, maybe I should get a Tracker II.
DO NOT GET THE TRACKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

I'm not going into details, just search it out here on RCU!! (I know you weren't serious, but just in case...)

Seriously, the Eclipse I used for a few weeks wouldn't satisfy you. It would not do crow, dual elevators, and other simple stuff. But it was older so maybe they are fixed.

The RD 8000 is reviewed in the current (August) Fly RC, check it out there.


For buying the 9C, go to Servo City. less than $50 more than the Eclipse. I did my own custom package. I got the Tx, and added a electron 6, 4 hs55 servos, etc. The total was only $40 more than just the Tx. They had great service too.

But if you have to get the cheaper Tx, check out the 7C as someone else said. Seems like a good deal.
Old 07-08-2004, 09:55 PM
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Kenny R
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

The eclipse radio will only do "crow" in glider mode. It will NOT do crow in the airplane mode. It also doesnt have any provision for any kind of "curve" in the mixing including a throttle curve[]

It will do split elevators. You just have to mix the elevator servo to to the appropiate channel on one of the custom mixes for the other elevator servo to work. Same thing with using channel 5 for for the other aileron servo on a 5 channel reciever, works great. The eclipse has 5 custom mixes available.

I have had one of these radios for two years and have had no trouble with it. I just wished it would do curves on the mixing other than that I wouldnt want another radio. The eclipse is probably the best bang for the buck but, I now am wanting the 9c.
Old 07-08-2004, 09:59 PM
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

ORIGINAL: Kenny R

It will do split elevators. You just have to mix the elevator servo to to the appropiate channel on one of the custom mixes for the other elevator servo to work. Same thing with using channel 5 for for the other aileron servo on a 5 channel reciever, works great. The eclipse has 5 custom mixes available.
It was my understanding that all Hitec radios had the ch5 dedicated to gear, is that not right? The one I used was for sure, but as I said it was older model.
Old 07-08-2004, 10:11 PM
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Kenny R
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

Gordo, I would have to get my radio out to be absolutely positive. But you make channel 1 master and channel 5 slave mix it at 100% turn the landing gear switch on and also turn on the Mix switch. I think I still have Johns plane setup on my radio and I had to do this to fly it. It only has a 5 channel receiver. He flys with the throttle on the right so when you fly his you got to set them up on your radio.
Old 07-08-2004, 10:34 PM
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

Also with the Eclipse when you mix the two elevator channels you will have only the original channel that can be trimmed.
Old 07-08-2004, 10:41 PM
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jldecarlo
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

I think I'll probably go with an Eclipse
I probably would go with the Futaba 7c or maybe the new Hitec Optic 6 (just announced, I don't know if it is available yet) if you want a bargain 3D radio. Otherwise the 9c is the obvious choice.

My experience with the Flash and Eclipse radios, while limited, has not been very favorable. I have had good luck with Hitec servos, and great luck with Hitec rcvrs, and the Optic looks like just the ticket.

Leonard

PS I checked Tower and they show the Optic 6 with Spectra module (no servos) for $180, avail in mid august.
Old 07-08-2004, 11:11 PM
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Default RE: What's a good TX for 3D profiles?

OK, you guys have convinced me - no Eclipse for the Magi.

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