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ShockFlyer Questions

Old 08-23-2004, 07:48 PM
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3d-aholic
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Default ShockFlyer Questions

I'm really looking at one of those shockflyers.

Saw one at the field and it was very impressive until the battery fell out. lol

I would be new to electric as in never tried it...What do you have to buy really to get started
My questions are neebie related but:

1. Do you use the Cirrus Micro Joule radios in these? These seem like the lightest radios around. http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/443413.asp

Or will these not work?

2. How do you know what kind of motor to put in it or what kind of battery? Its all foreign to me.

3. Are there shockflyer experts out there?
Old 08-24-2004, 06:49 PM
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3littlefonzies
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/shockflyer-extra.htm

you don,t need to use that small of a reciever but small is good. i have a hitec electron six on mine. the motor and esc in that packege are great on the shock flyers. i would probably go with a 1300 thunder power battery although I'm pretty sure those kokam 340's have a 2C charge rate which means 30 min charge time, but dont take my word for it. hobby lobby folks can answer all you electric questions. I was there today and they have about 400 shock flyers in stock(as of 3:30) but that won't last long.
Old 08-25-2004, 12:33 AM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

I just bought one, althought not my first foamie.

After many hours of reading throught, I came to find probably what I think is an IDEAL set-up.

Motor: Axi 2208/34 with Radial mount (using this motor saves a prop adapter and gearbox, much simpler for a first time user althought gearboxes and prop adapter is a piece of cake) the motor is absolutely insane power for it. This motor will also LAST on this plane, won't rip it up or twist the frame to pieces, provided you don't fly full throttle.

ESC: A lot are using Castle Creations Phenoix 10, I got a Jeti 8-3P as my Jeti 18-3P worked flawlessly and the switch that they come with is nice.

Batteries: This is hard, but I like my planes light. (USE A 2 CELL battery) so something like Kokam 340s, Tanic 520s, or for 3-5 grams more then the Tanic 520s a Thunderpower 730 pack.

New batteries are coming out, Apogee 420 and a Thunderpower 480, the TP will be the same weight as a Kokam 340 and both batteries should be available soon.

Servos: I love the Hitec HS55s, had a dozen of them and they just work great. My experience, dont buy the Cirrus 4.4 servos, I got 3 and the only one i plugged in to test failed[:@].

Receiver: Berg Microstamp 2 rx, I am going to try this, never heard any problems with these receivers with range. I have used a couple Hitec Electron 6 receivers in the past and have had NO problems whatsoever, in fact im running one on a glow plane now. Works great. So whatever you chose

Try to keep it light, electrics fly great and once you fly one probably won't fly glow ever again[8D].
Old 08-25-2004, 08:06 AM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

Shortman.

Well, I'm just looking for something to fly at lunch while at work.... I'm use to the relative endless power of glow and that strap it on approach so I doubt I'm going to kick the glow habit.

RXs:
I'm thinking similar to these things but mostly all I have found is GWS Pico Rx's (any reason why those won't work).
How do the RX's get their power?...do you have to buy a RX's battery pack...because I can't find one. I thought somehow it was from the battery pack for the motor..

Servos: The HS-55 seems to be the most popular but they seem to be heavier, more expensive, slower and bigger than what many are using and that are out there. Beside Cirrus, heres' the data that I have accumulated

HiTec HS-55 $18.49 Torque=18 oz-in; Speed=.14sec/60 degrees; Weight=.28oz
BMS 306 - HP $16.99 Torque=12 oz-in; Speed=.11sec/60 degrees; Weight=.21oz
HES 2003 Sub Micro $16.49 Torque=15.28 oz-in; Speed=.08sec/60 degrees; Weight=.20oz
Old 08-25-2004, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

Everything runs off your single Li Poly battery for power. The speed controller regulates everything to the motor and the servos.
Old 08-25-2004, 10:14 AM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

Great info Shortman.

I too want one of these for some indoor winter 3D.

What are you using / recommend for a charger.

Can you give a rough estimate on the cost to get a Shock flyer in the air with the equip you listed and a quality charger? I noticed the plane and the Hobby Lobby power pack is about $450. I was hoping prices would be coming down some.

Thanks!

Jeff
Old 08-25-2004, 12:28 PM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

Well if you price as a package $400-450 seems to be a fair end-up price for an AXI/Brushless setup. The charger though is the most expensive thing...so what charger changes everything. You probably can get that down to $375-400 ish by piece mealing all over the place but shipping will kill you without properly planning.

OMP, which is suppose to get a brushless setup soon, has a brushed setup that is less expensive....It looks closer to $280-300ish when you add the charger, the batteries, crystal (it doesn't look like it comes with that) and other things you probably will still need. That OMP price is what got me into looking at this.

I kinda do have a hard time flying around a $450 paper-plate styrofoam plane (with the plane only costing $40) on my $400 radio. But the insanity of that does seem intriguing as well in a weird sorta 3-d way.
Old 08-25-2004, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

It is great info Shortman...wondering why you want the berg rx. Its twice as expensive as say the GWS. Are you considering it for the distance and reuse potential?
Old 08-25-2004, 03:09 PM
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wyflyer
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

I ordered a shocky with the AXI 2208/34, Jeti 8 amp esc, hs55 servos, a GWS pico receiver, and Kokam 340 2s batteries. It cost me about $330.00 for the airplane, motor, radial mount, esc, servos, receiver, crystal, connectors, and 3 battery packs.
Old 08-25-2004, 03:13 PM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

ORIGINAL: 3d-aholic

It is great info Shortman...wondering why you want the berg rx. Its twice as expensive as say the GWS. Are you considering it for the distance and reuse potential?
The GWS RX's have a dismal record of glitches. If you fly by yourself, far away from anybody else, they are OK. You can fly a Berg shoulder-to-shoulder with 10 of your best flying buddies.
Old 08-25-2004, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

Yeah what Chuck said, I have yet to try one, Only have used the Hitec Electrons 6 but I am always up for new things. I think the best Lithium Ion/Poly charger BY FAR is the Astroflight 109. It can charge the smallest to the biggest Lithium Polymer batteries and eliminates human error in cell count. HARD to get but I just like to stick with a known online store and wait out for 2-3 weeks instead of spending 2 weeks to find one.

As far as spending money on foamies, I have no problem doing so, if you think about it, everything except for a $35 airframe will always be reusable on another plane. After you get past the initial costs its always cheaper provided you don't buy several planes fully outfitted[8D]. I really wanted to try a Lehner with Cobri (sp?) gearbox on like a 16 ounce plane because those motors are insane. Comparing it even to my Hacker B20 15L with a 11 x 4.7 AP SF it has almost exactly almost 2x the power and a little lighter. However for a shockflyer it would insanely destroy it.

I just did a lot of reading and am using what works, I have experimented enought to know that even the most power isnt always the best, i had to retire my last plane because the motor didnt stay on the plane[]. So i dunno.

Mine should be here anyday and I will go throught some parts of my build with pictures.
Old 08-25-2004, 08:25 PM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

Yeh, unfortunately you typically get what you pay for. I don't see myself getting that involved in electric.....in terms of reuse of components. There has never been an electric plane that I have even remotely wanted before the shocky came along.
Old 08-25-2004, 09:55 PM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

ORIGINAL: Shortman

Receiver: Berg Microstamp 2 rx, I am going to try this, never heard any problems with these receivers with range. I have used a couple Hitec Electron 6 receivers in the past and have had NO problems whatsoever, in fact im running one on a glow plane now. Works great. So whatever you chose
Why not the HiTec Feather RX...are there issues with those Rx's? At least Hitec is a known entity for me and I've never had issues with a HiTec. They weigh just a bit more than the GWS but weigh much less than the Electron's
Old 08-25-2004, 10:31 PM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

Hitec Feather no different than GWS rxs. Any of the Bergs are excellent as are the FMAs and the dual conversion Hitecs.
Spend your money on the cheap rx and then you'll buy a good receiver aftere you find out how bad the cheapies are. I'll even sell you a Hitec Feather on 48 for half price what ever they are new at Tower. I know I'll never use it again.
Matt
Old 08-25-2004, 10:53 PM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

Wow that bad huh.

I see...they are single conversion instead of double conversion...thats the problem.
Old 08-26-2004, 07:19 AM
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George E.
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

I had a feather RX, it was fine if flying alone but at the local RC field forget it. I crashed twice in one day when someone elses TX took over the plane [:'(]

I have heard GWS is the same story but have not used their RX's

Hitech Electrons work great. I have them in many glow planes and never had one glitch [sm=thumbup.gif]


Bergs are fantastic. I have two of the 4 channel micro stamp Bergs in foamies and NEVER had a glitch. They are small, light and about the same price as the Electron. They are not limited to the 500-1,000 ft range of the typical single conversion, they are full range receivers. Many use them in glow planes, even for pylon racing. Can you tell I'm happy with the Bergs
Old 08-26-2004, 09:05 AM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

Just wanted to add my .02 cents. I have had as much fun with my Shock Flyer in the past couple of weeks as I've ever had in the hobby. Electrics have come so far in the past couple of years. I never thought I would be interested in e-flight, but the technology has made it impossible to ignore. These things can really improve your skills in short order. I usually get in a couple of flight in the morning before work, a couple at lunch, and a couple after work, 5 DAYS A WEEK! Being able to walk out the front door and do ANY maneuver you want is liberating. The Shock Flyer really is a well thought out, perfect design, best $39.00 I've ever spent. The AXI 2208/34, CC Phoenix 10, HS-55 is the ideal combo. We also have one with the new AXI 2204/54 that weighs 6oz. for indoor flying. My favorite manever is a 15 foot diameter knife edge loop that starts and ends 6" off the deck. I get such a kick each time I do it! Hard to quit smiling after flying these things. WARNING! These things are HIGHLY addictive!
Old 08-26-2004, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

Yep, Chris is right! These little electric foamies are almost a "must have" item. My favorite manuever is...hand somebody else the TX and stand just behind them. I've never seen anybody YET that wasn't giggling like a school girl in about 5 seconds.
Old 08-26-2004, 09:28 AM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

ROTFLMAO! Hand it to the Goat!
Old 08-26-2004, 10:20 AM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

Ok, I'm convinced..

So ExtremeFlight, are you using Berg's too?

Are Bergs Single Conversion....because thats where the issue is. Double conversion means more mathmatics to deciper the correct transmitter channel. Single Conversion only works if everyone at your field has perfect transmitters and stay reasonable far away.
Old 08-26-2004, 10:49 AM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

I'm using the Hitec Electron 6 without the case.
Old 08-26-2004, 11:30 AM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

ORIGINAL: 3d-aholic

Ok, I'm convinced..

So ExtremeFlight, are you using Berg's too?

Are Bergs Single Conversion....because thats where the issue is. Double conversion means more mathmatics to deciper the correct transmitter channel. Single Conversion only works if everyone at your field has perfect transmitters and stay reasonable far away.
You have to read up on Bergs. Peter Berg is an aerospace engineer who designs telemetry systems for spacecraft. He is also an avid sailplane pilot. While the Berg is single conversion, it has a digital signal processor on the front end. It also has software built into it that recognizes the transmitters signature footprint, so it will only work with the TX that it boots up to. It will reject signals from another TX on the same frequency, there are issues with using them on the buddy box because it will reject commands from the buddy TX...it can tell that the firmware (internal circuitry in the TX, not even the RF which is not used in buddy box operation) it is getting signal from is not
from the TX is has booted to.

If all of this sounds incredible, it is. Guys have run tests, turn on the TX, turn on another on the same frequency. The RX still functions. Turn off the first TX, the second TX will not control the RX. Turn the first TX back on and control is resumed.

Read more about this Here & Here Read about dual vs single conversion Here . Read what the Berg users say Here Here
Old 08-26-2004, 11:39 AM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

Yes...I remember reading this....but where I read it...it also says that the Berg can't work with Futaba Freq...synths which seems like a negative. I don't have one yet...but I've been waiting for the new ones to come out for the 9C so I could buy one. I'll read these other links.

Sounds like signal signature recognition to me. I think Futuba claims this for their single conversion as well.
Old 08-26-2004, 11:52 AM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

I can post a link to tell how to make the Futaba Synth module work as well.
Old 08-26-2004, 12:55 PM
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Default RE: ShockFlyer Questions

For what it's worth I use a Berg with the Hitec synth. module and have NEVER had a glitch. I can take my foamie WAYYYYYY up almost out of sight and it works perfectly.

Can't speak for the futaba synth. module.

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