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Flying Pizza Box

Old 03-22-2002, 09:21 PM
  #51  
lnorris
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Default Pizza too small?

This is the craziest thing I've heard on in awhile. I love it! I'm just waiting to hear the first "combat" report. Tie some stringers on those puppies!!

So you guy using standard servos on the .40 size?

Oh, and if you are getting too small of pizza boxes when you get pizza, you need to order bigger pizza. When you call ask them the diameter of their pizza and add about 2 inches I bet.
Old 03-23-2002, 01:26 AM
  #52  
RC_Eflyer-RCU
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Default Flying Pizza Box

Well I didn't have time to get mine up in the air. I don't know where Foamguy went, I haven't seen him online since I got back. Right before I came back from spring break he was sick. I'll email him and see whether he ever got his going.

--Paul
Old 03-23-2002, 01:54 AM
  #53  
Foamguy
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Default Flying Pizza Box

Hi Guys,

I finished mine and have flown it. It's very tailheavy and needs some adjustment, but I did have some fun. Very hoverable.

I dont have pics or anything else because lately I just totally dont feel like building, designing, fixing, or flying planes. I don't know why except I've been at this pretty hardcore for about 5 years now and suddenly I'm really bored with it all. I havent been to the field in a couple weeks, which is odd for me to say the least. I have some projects I need to be working on, but I just can't come up with the energy to care. LOL Feel like I've done everything, designed everything I'm ever gonna do in this game. I think I'm about as good a flier as I'll ever get too. Maybe its time for some new guys to take over...

Foamguy
Old 03-23-2002, 02:19 AM
  #54  
Dave McDonald
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Default Pizza Box Plane ready for takeoff!

Well, here is my Pizza Box plane.....ready for a powered test flight. It's already made about a dozen successful glides from my deck, and appears to have much better control than I had expected. Weather permitting, I should be able to try a powered flight tomorrow.

Wing is a square 24"x24" piece of 4mm coroplast, with the last 4" being elevons. Fin is a 6"x6" piece of 4mm coroplast, no rudder.....at least not yet. "Fuselage" is a 3/8" square balsa stick. Motor mount is two 3/4" square pine rails, screwed to the wing to allow the CG to be easily changed. Motor is an HB 15, with an 8x4 prop. Dry weight is 1 lb, 12oz. Starting CG is at 4 3/4" back from leading edge, or 20%.
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Old 03-23-2002, 02:30 AM
  #55  
Dave McDonald
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Default Pizza Box plane

Here's a better photo of the radio and engine area.

Servos are Futaba S-133, servo taped to the coroplast. Rx is an old Royal AM that I built from a kit many years ago. Battery is an 80mah that I built from the cells out of one of those rechargable 9V NiCad batteries. Rx and battery are held in place by Velcro. (Hopefully, the exhaust diverter will stay on so the radio doesn't get drowned in oil.)
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Old 03-24-2002, 04:02 AM
  #56  
Billy Hell
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Default Flying Pizza Box

Coroplast, just what I was thinking and instead of Pizza Hut I'm thinking my plane will be a "WORK FROM HOME" sign off the side of the road (I collect them already for my Zagi). I'm going to use an old Zagi 400 motor buy a new ESC and use my old Hitec 81 servos and go with elevons. Should be fast as simple. I'm thinking rear mounted motor. Here is how I did it with the Zagi:
http://www.secondsight.com/rc/zagi
I think it will trasnfer over to the "WORK FROM HOME" fine.
Old 03-24-2002, 05:15 AM
  #57  
Dave McDonald
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Default Pizza Box flys much better than expected!

I was able to put in three powered flights today on my Pizza Box Plane. I am still amazed at how well it flys! It easily maintained normal flight with the HB 15 running at a fast idle, but I haven't attempted high speed flight yet. Inverted flight also had rock solid control. Rolls were quick and fairly axial.

The Flying Pizza Box was MUCH more stable and controllable than I ever would have dreamed possible!!! As the nose was raised into a hover, there was virtually no stall. Simply continue to pull back on the elevator and keep adding power. Then it flys around at an absolutely ridiculous high angle of attack with no tendancy to snap or stall or anything scary! It's amazing!!!

Here's a photo as the Flying Pizza Box slowly passing by the camera at a fast walking speed with the nose pointing almost vertical.
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Old 03-24-2002, 05:23 AM
  #58  
Dave McDonald
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Default Pizza Box Plane takes to the air!

Here's another picture as the Pizza Box plane passed by about a foot off the ground with the engine running at a fast idle. Sorry about the picture quality. The photo was cropped out of a much larger picture.
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Old 03-24-2002, 06:27 PM
  #59  
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Default Flying Pizza Box

wow, i might have to try one of these with an old 25 FP i've got lying around.

Just need to go coro-sign-hunting
Old 03-25-2002, 07:48 PM
  #60  
Foamguy
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Default Flying Pizza Box

Dave And Gang,

Isn't it amazing ? That's what I've been trying to say for a few weeks. It seems even MORE stable than a delta at super high AOA. Wait till you add a rudder ! I hovered an entire 10 oz tank of fuel out on mine on the first flight. Actually, they hover fine with NO rudder, but I like the added axis of control. I'm over my slump, so I'll get some photos up this week of my Pizza Box MkII.

Foamguy
Old 03-26-2002, 02:27 AM
  #61  
Dave McDonald
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Default Welcome back Foamguy!

When I took my Pizza Box plane to the flying field yesterday, everybody laughed at it. Some said it couldn't possibly fly since it's just a flat piece of coroplast and has no airfoil at all. Some said that the short wingspan would make it uncontrollable.

But once they saw the Pizza Box plane flying, the jokes turned to wide-eyed amazement as it flew upright, inverted, rolled, inside looped, outside looped, and then hovered around the field at a walking pace.

I have NEVER flown any other flying wing that flys as gently as this simple Pizza Box plane....especially during slow flight! And this includes lots of different flying wings such as a Diamond Dust, Predator, Gremlin, Vortex, Simitar, King Kombat, and lots of other flying wing designs that I can't remember right now. It's even easier to slow fly than my Stickit! Amazing!

Although the Pizza Box plane will easily hover without a rudder, I found myself wishing it had one. So yesterday, I added another Futaba S-133 and installed a rudder. The S-133 weighs about an ounce, and the Kevlar pull-pull cable weighs next to nothing, so now the dry weight is 1 lb, 13oz.

Although it's officially Spring, central Missouri is now getting pounded by freezing rain, sleet, and snow. But Wednesday's high is supposed to get back into the mid 50's, so I might be able to fly it then. Can't wait! This plane is amazing!
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Old 03-26-2002, 09:46 PM
  #62  
MiL
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Default Flying Pizza Box

well, i "flew" my pizza-plane today. I used an 18x24" piece of 4mm coroplast with elevons and a OS .25 FP.

Somehow in all my dinking around with the radio, i think i managed to have the aileron controls reversed for the first flight and didn't know it. The box flew about 50 feet then started to roll, because of the reversed controls, i promptly drove it into the ground. Total flight time: Approx 5 seconds.

For the second flight i reduced the control throws quite a bit and fixed the directions. This time the motor was sagging a little (the needle valve got a little messed up in the first flight. After the hand launch it went up a little but didnt have quite enough elevator or speed to maintain flight and it just kinda mushed on back down to the ground... almost a smooth landing. Total flight time: approx 7 seconds.

Note: It was very windy and the only other person flying was a guy with a zagi. I didn't even consider flying my extra, or anything of value.

Third flight: This time i fixed the motor and put control throws back to high. From the handlaunch it was clear that this would be the best flight yet. The pizza box climbed out fairly controllably for a few seconds then the wind caught it and flipped it over. It was fairly difficult to control at this point and i was basically just trying to keep it from flying away. It kept rolling to the left and sometimes i couldnt stop it from going over on it's back. It seemed to be easier to fly inverted! Which was a good thing because the flight basically consisted of one huge rolling circle all the way around the field before it finally headed straight down and augered in. Total flight time: about 30 seconds.

For a while i thought i was going to lose it, it was heading toward the highway behind the field and i could barely get it turned around. It definitely was not the gentle flier that Dave's sounds like, but it did show some potential... and provided quite a bit of entertainment for the people at the field.

I might try to build another one, although i plan on using the motor and radio components in a scratch built fun fly pretty soon (see fun fly for .25 FP thread if interested).
Old 03-27-2002, 12:23 AM
  #63  
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Default Flying Pizza Box

Dave!
I know what you mean about the weather. I'm down here in southwest missouri and the weather has been plum crummy! I tried flying sunday afternoon and had nothing but wind and sprinkles. Got two flights in on my lt 40 but I'm ready for summer!!! Where do yall fly up there anyways. I'll be at CMSU later next month. Might stop by for a flight or two.

Matt
4 State R/c Club
Old 03-27-2002, 12:34 AM
  #64  
irishcarbomb
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Default Flying Pizza Box

Dave,
How did you mount the servos? i FINALLY started mine and hope to finish it next week, seeing as i have the whole week off for spring break...I know its overkill but its the smallest enigne i have besides a Norvel .061, I'm gonna use a TT GP .42 with 3 HS300 servos...16x16 big new yorker box reinforced with some spruce...can't wait to try it.
Old 03-27-2002, 03:26 AM
  #65  
Dave McDonald
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Default Flying Pizza Box

MiL,
I'm not sure why your Pizza Box plane isn't a gentle flyer like mine and Foamguy's. Maybe it has something to do with your 18"x24" wing not being square? Not sure. Or are you trying to fly it too fast? Mine flys best when just sort of floating around like a trainer.

Balsageek,
The local flying club is the Lake Ozark Radio Control Society (LORCS). The flying field is in Eldon, which is about 30 miles southwest of Jefferson City on Highway 54. You are welcome to fly with us anytime! If you need directions to the field, just let me know.

Uproar_15,
I used servo tape, but first the coroplast was "flashed" with a propane torch to remove the oily film, just like the SPAD combat guys recommend. Although I love my three TT 42GP engines, IMHO a 16"x16" box would probably work better with a .10 or a .15 instead of a TT 42GP. At 24"x24", my Pizza Box plane literally has over twice the wing area as your 16"x16".....and I'm only using a .15 engine....with most of the flying being done at about half throttle. I never use full throttle except sometimes during hovering flight.

UPDATE 3/26/02:
Today after work, the weather was nice enough to put a flight on the Pizza Box plane in my backyard. Having a rudder made it even more fun to fly! It also made the Pizza Box plane much easier to precisely control. With the rudder, I was even able to hang it on the prop with the nose pointed straight up, then give it full left aileron, and watch it torque roll about three or four revolutions before falling out! I never had a flying wing that would do that before!

There was a very light breeze, so I was able to hover up to myself and stop it right beside me about an arms length away. I could have reached out and grabbed it out of the air, except that there really isn't anything to grab ahold of. So instead I slightly reduced the throttle, and the Pizza Box plane gently settled to the ground right at my feet. I wish someone could have videotaped this! It was cool!
Old 03-27-2002, 03:52 AM
  #66  
Foamguy
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Default Flying Pizza Box

My experience has been pretty much exactly like Dave's. Only difference being mine is .28 powered and weighs about 3 lbs. I used standard servos, 600mah battery, standard reveiver. Cuz I have tons of all that.... and all my small, light stuff is pretty much trashed from combat flying Mine flies just like Dave describes.... same tricks... and although heavier... it doesnt seem to matter.. just pull the nose up a little more.. it'll slow down, then stop. Typical angle of attack is probably about 75 degrees for me.

Foamguy
Old 03-27-2002, 02:15 PM
  #67  
ben flyn
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Default Flying Pizza Box

Dave,
Does your pizza have landing gear? If so, what kind?
Old 03-28-2002, 01:39 AM
  #68  
irishcarbomb
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Default Flying Pizza Box

I'm thinking about scrapping the 16x16" idea and going with a big piece of that coroplast...where can i buy that stuff?(yeah, its not a pizza box, but i mounted the enigne today and it looks way too big and it balanced perfectly with nothing else on it....
Old 03-28-2002, 04:50 AM
  #69  
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Default Coroplast Hunting

Why buy coroplast!?! just do what billy hell does and go hunt for it. Do you know the big signs hanging from stop signs and power poles that say, "Lose Weight Now Call ...." Or "Work from home and make thousands....."? one word!!! coroplast!!!!!! We had a kid in our club who had one of the usaircore trainers and we patched the heck outta that plane with those signs!!! We even made a whole new fin and rudder with them.. Oh and don't worry about taking them b/c it's usually not illegal. The people who post the signs are esseciantally trespassing where they put them. Also, it's illegal to hang anything from a stop sign. I view taking the signs as a service to our community or something like that :greedy: haha
Old 03-28-2002, 05:07 AM
  #70  
Dave McDonald
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Default Flying Pizza Box

Ben Fly'n,
I didn't put a landing gear on my Pizza plane because we have a grass field. It's so easy to hand launch and lands so slow that it really doesn't need a landing gear. And when the engine quits in hovering flight, the landing gear doesn't do much good anyway!

uproar_15,
I think that scrapping the 16x16 box for a 24x24 piece of coroplast would be a good idea. Look around the grocery stores for coroplast signs that they might give you. (I've had my eye on a 4' diameter round coroplast sign at the local Hy-Vee grocery store to make a disc plane!) If you can't find one for free, you should be able to buy a 24x24 piece of Coroplast at any local sign shop for a few bucks. Or you can get free shipping on coroplast direct from Harbor Sales, which is where I've been getting it for my combat planes.
http://www.harborsales.net

A computer whiz flying buddy has come up with video camera and a laptop that might allow us to post some video of the Pizza Box plane so you can watch it flying. Stay tuned!
Old 03-28-2002, 05:12 AM
  #71  
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Default Flying Pizza Box

my step brother works at a sign shop.... two words cheap coroplast

4x8 sheets even.... and they are having a special this month so I just told him pick me up a bunch of sheets in diffrent colors

guess i need to build a spad now... poor poor me
Old 03-28-2002, 12:58 PM
  #72  
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Default 30 inch square for .51?

I have a supertigre .51 I want to build one of these for! Anyone reccomend a good box size? I plan on using 5mm coroplast.

Cheers!
Old 03-29-2002, 02:27 AM
  #73  
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Default I just gotta try one of these

The only model airplane power source I've got available is an OS.46FX. I am building one of these things right now for it. Using the specs Dave McDonald gave for his pizza box, I figured 36''x36'' ought to be just about right. I also felt that one layer of coro would be way too flimsy, and two layers would be too heavy, so I'm using 3/4'' blue styrofoam with kraft paper covering paper mache style. I'm gonna cheat and round the leading edges, but everything else will be square. I've already cut all the parts(all 8 of them, with rudder and canopy outline), which took about half of an hour. It looks like it will be a little more labor intensive than Dave and Foamguy's but not much. I'll update as it progresses.

Jeff
Old 03-29-2002, 03:44 AM
  #74  
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Default Flying Pizza Box

i'm gonna build one of these... and the rudder is gonna be shaped and painted like a slice of pizza

then I gotta find a way to make a pizza cutter landing gear
Old 03-29-2002, 04:00 AM
  #75  
Dave McDonald
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Default Wing size for 46 to 51 engine?

OzDave,
IMHO, I don't think a 30x30 piece of coroplast will be big enough for a 51 engine. But then again, I'm just guessing here based on the performance of my 15 powered 24x24 Pizza plane.......and not any real experience with a 51 powered Pizza plane.

airjeffro,
I agree with you that the 36x36 wing would probably be a good place to start with a 46, and probably for OzDave's 51 as well. I would think that a flying weight of around 4 pounds should be possible......and with 1296 square inches of wing area, it should be able to fly fairly slow!

I also agree that a single layer 36x36 wing would be too flimsy, and doubled would be too heavy. But I'm thinking that using a doubled layer might work if you used a doubler down the middle that was only about 12 inches wide. That would give the wing structure a cantilever type support, without adding any excess weight. Any thoughts on this?

This evening was the first time I was able to fly the Pizza plane in calm air. I still can't get over how stable and controllable this plane is!

I also found out that if you give it full rudder, then neutralize the elevator, it enters a pretty violent nose down spin. But unlike a conventional plane, I was able to easily recover by leaving the rudder fully deflected, and then giving it UP elevator, which caused it to change from a violent nose down spin into a gentle but tight spiraling turn. :stupid:

For some reason that I can't yet explain, the Pizza Box plane always tends to keep the wing level during hovering flight. Even during inverted hovering flight, it still tends to keep the wing level. With no dihedral, I would have expected the roll axis to be neutrally stable......but for some reason, that's not the case. It definitely has positive roll stability in both upright and inverted flight!

Even though I've been flying RC planes for over 32 years, I'm having a blast exploring the flight envelope of this simple plane! I can't wait to hear from some others about how their Pizza Box plane flys!

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