Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

After eating Mexican food with my flying buddies it was concluded that it's time for me to build my next plane. After looking at hsrcm web site:
http://www.hsrcm.com
I realized that most of the stuff that didn't come with the kit was the stuff I usually replaced anyway. So short of the fact I have never built a kit before it makes sense to take this one (I haven't covered anything either). My question is which plane would be best for me? I consider the hsrcm planes to be a step above the Morris planes but are they too much for me? I throw my Knife around without fear and can occasionally get an "ahhhh" out the folks at the field. I've only been flying for 4 or 5 gallons of fuel but I have lots of time on FMS. So Kevin which should it be? The Hard Bet III, Wacky Bee or the Aeron? Anyone else out there flying these planes?

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

Billy,

Go with the Aeron. Looks great and super easy to build. I might have to get me one now.

Thanks a lot Billy! haha

Robert

HSRCM, Inc.
 

Billy, I would not recommend the Hard Bet Mk III, because of the touchy elevator. It is only for the very experienced Fun-Fly pilot.
The Aeron is very aglie and quick. I have a buddy that bought one for his third airplane despite my recommendation against it. He said that he could do manuvers so easily, i.e. knife edge, hover (up high), flat spins, etc. The only problem is that he got over confident, lose orientation, and would lose it. This is easy to do with the Aeron because it is so quick.
I would suggest the Wacky Bee III. The Wacky-Bee III will perform every 3D manuver that you can think of, though is forgiving. You want the high Alpha knife edge, knife edge loops, climbing inverted flat spins, climbing tornados, upright flat spins maintaining altitude, harriers, torque rolls, etc. etc.

All of my designs will perform the above mentioned manuvers and ones without names. I pride myself in that. I design extreme Fun-Flys for what is known as 'Stick-Bangers', because I am one. It is unfortante that we could not meet when you were in the area, but maybe next time.
I hope that this helps you out. If not, let me know.
Kevin :D

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

AH come on Kevin. The Hard bet was my first fun fly, sure on first flight application of elevator made the plane go straight up but hey, you get used to it. And by the time you get it built and covered you will have several more months of flight time in.
Billy If you can handle your knife on high rates, I really dont think you would have a problem. You just have to fly with really low rates until you get a few flights in. Im just starting covering of my hard bet mark III. I have a few pics at home, I will post soon. The aeron is a lighter plane for sure, but that box fuse on the bet is TOUGH. I flew mine into a fence post (hard) last year and all it did was put a crack in the fuse. The new one is all balsa so it probably isnt going to be quite as tough but it should be lighter. I should have mine ready in a few weeks. And it is not just another anorexic airplane :)

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

I can take off and land the Knife on high rates and usually when I get off the ground the high rates go on. I'm not intimadated by overly sensitive planes. I'm more annoyed with slow to react planes!

Slow to React Planes
 

Remember that I specialize in the extreme Fun-Flys. I do not have any Fun-Fly designs that are slow to react, and it does, then you've got a problem because something is broke! :eek: I haven't seen you fly Billy. I have seen and read your posts, but that is the only exposure that I have had, thence it is very very limited. As Smallfly has stated, I do have customers that have and are flying the Hard Bet as their first Fun Fly aircraft, and a box style fuse is tougher than a profile (as a rule of thumb). The elevator is sensitive on the Hard Bet, but with low rates and its nice to have expotential, you'd probably be fine. I still stand by my original recommendation with the Wacky-Bee III since I haven't seen you fly. The Wacky-Bee III is an easier one to handle initially. Needless to say, it is your choice. The Aeron is the quickest of the three that we are discussing. The Hard Bet is the most versitile, since it is designed to fly fast as well as slow. The Wacky-Bee III and Aeron are strictly Fun-Flys. They will not handle high speeds. My son's Hard Bet (original design) would run at just over 100 mph with a stock ST45. This is what he loves. Allot of my customers purchase the Hard Bet MkIII just because of the plug-in wing design for the ease of transportation. Billy you need to figure out your preferences. Some people prefer a profile, and others prefer a box-style fuse design. The Wacky-Bee III is in between. It has a box style fuse, though flies like a profile (just look at the movies on my site).
I realize that this probably doesn't get any closer to a decision, but needless to say, it is your decision and nobody can make it for you. The easy answer is buy one of each :D
Kevin

Hard Bet Mk III - How Tough?
 

Well Smallfly, you may think that the new Hard Bet Mk III is not as tough as the original, but I think that you'll find that it is just as tough, at least. I 'dumb-thumbed' my Mk III into the ground from an inverted flat spin about 4-6 ft off of the ground. I did have to build a new wing and fix the front of the fuse, but I went in at full throttle thinking that I could save it :eek: I think the better you get at flying, the more chances you take, and the only difference is as a beginner you normally chop the throttle when you get in trouble and repairs are minor, when you get better at flying, you slam the throttle full and try to pull it out, and if you don't make it, your re-building time is increased exponentially! Normally an aircraft going in the way mine did would have been trash. Numerous people saw me do this great maneuver (Ha Ha), and I have made several sales because of that crash because they were impressed with its survival capability. :D And NO, I do not crash on purpose to show their endurance capability!

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

I've got the Aeron kit.... I've been flying profiles, so I thought this was a logical choice for me.... I'll be building it soon.... I'm sure you like any of them Billy... Just go for it... Building is fun...

I just reworked my workshop and I'm ready to some building big time!! Replaced that old 24" hollow core door with a 36" one... and built some storage under the building board.... Just got a little more straightening up to do...

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

If interested here are a few pics of my hard bet mark III in progress

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

Pic 2

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

Pic 3. I guess you can get a hint at the covering scheme. What else but red white and blue for the 4th of july

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

smallfly
That picture would be perfect for my new web site featuring RC porn. It will be called "In The Bones - all nude aircraft". How old is your plane? There is an age limit.

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

kevin4hsrcm, I looked at your website and thought about it but I just need to get some things clear. Are the only things in your short kits the lazer cut parts? All the other "you need to complete" balsa, needs to be bought in addition to your short kit? Please give the approx. cost of your short kit and the additional things to complete it (let's say the Hard Bet III). Also you don't speak too highly of 4 strokes on your planes. I am 4 stroke .40 size fun fly kind of guy, your thoughts please. Please fill us in, thank you.

Short Kit
 

Smallfly - Your Hard Bet MkIII looks really GOOD!!! :D

Billy - I don't know what the age limit is for your new "in the bones - naked aircraft site" is, but I can tell you that Smallfly's aircraft is way - way under age! :eek:

RC_Juncky - Yes, HSRCM, Inc. only offers short kits. There is a link for each aircraft on my site that outlines what parts are included in the short kit and what misc. wood and hardware is needed (you need to purcahse) to complete the kit. I've tried to supply full kits, and too many people wanted different hardware based on their personal preference, and everyone seems to want different densities of wood based on its application. Thence, I found it better for the individual to get their own. That way, they can get exactly what meets their personal preference.

You asked specifically about the Hard Bet Mk III. This short kit includes:
- all the laser cut parts,
- full scale drawings (2 - 36" x 68" drawings),
- vacuum formed canopy,
- wing tube and sleeve,
- and construction manual (with approx. 140 digital pics of aircraft in construction).

The approximate cost for the misc. balsa to finish out this kit is approx. $15 (based on ordering from Lone Star Models) and approx. the same amount for hardware pending on your selection. Here are the links you asked about:

Hard Bet Mk III Kit Contents

Aeron -40 Kit Contents

Wacky-Bee III Kit Contents

Whazz-Up! Kit Contents

You'll find that the misc. wood and hardware costs are about the same for the 40-size kits that we offer. I also believe that if you are a builder, you'll find the listed misc. wood is probably already in your shop. Check it out for yourself. Pricing for the short kits are listed on my website.
As far as 4-strokes, I have allot of customers that are running them on my designs. I personally don't care for them. It is my personal preference to stick with the Webra 50 with a Mac Header and tuned pipe. I've tried numerous other manufacturers including 4Cs, and I always end up going back to the Webra 50. Like I said, it is personal preference.
Hope that this helps answers your questions.
Kevin :D

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

Wood is Wood to me.

Wood is Wood to me
 

Then I have to say that you are in the minority. Avid Fun-Flyers that I have talked with and do business with have very specific criteria in their wood requirements, though opinion falls into play here, so what they want varies too much to satisfy the mass.

Idea
 

Kevin:

Why not offer the plane as both short kits and full kits, with all wood needed? If the wood costs $15, you should be able to buy it for less in volume, say $12. The person buying it for $15 would have to pay shipping of say $6. Plus the convenience of having it supplied would be worth a few dollars. You should be able to add it to a short kit and charge an extra $25, netting you an additional $14 per kit. You may even sell more kits, because a lot of guys don't want to have to mess around buying both a short kit and then ordering balsa from a second company. So they buy a kit from someone else.

Short Kits w & w/o wood
 

RCMAN - this is allot easier said than done. Understand that now I would have to carry twice as many kits in inventory, with & without wood. Buying in volume? You don't understand what these balsa suppliers consider volume. I would have to make a significant additional investment to be even considered volume. I have had conversations with FunAero RC to see if they would have an interest in sell full kits, though I haven't heard back from them. Since they laser cut, they carry wood in stock and have already made the investment. You're markup idea sounds good on paper, though it doesn't work that way. People do are not willing to pay that extra money for the convenience (unfortunately). There are some that will, though limited. When I offered full kits, people were asking for short kits. Now a select few are asking for long kits. You just can't please everyone, and I realize that. I've decided that it is best just to offer the short kit for know. I'm sorry if this is not your preference, but due to economics, it is not worth offering both.
Kevin

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

kevin4hsrcm - I understand what you are saying about offering it the way you choose to but, let me also say I consider it to be a minus where your kits are concerned when trying to choose between kits to build. Your stuff may be some of the best flying planes in the sky but, I'll never find out if it requires having to run down $15.00 worth of additional sticks and sheeting. It's not the money it's the pain, guess I'm just not one for short kits.

Full Kits
 

Kevin:

You wouldn't have to stock two types of kits. Stock the kits and wood bundles separately. If someone wants the full kit, throw a bundle of wood in with the kit when you ship it. You could even look at the wood bundle as an item you don't need to make much profit on, but as an extra convenience for customers to help you sell more kits. Make sure to offer the right density of wood for where used in the kit and advertise as such. A lot of guys (new to the hobby) don't know what density to use where and this would be a real plus for them.

This is only one viewpoint. You are right that in actual experience, things don't always work out as one thinks they would.

Reply
 

RC-Junky - All I got to say is No Pain No Gain. If you don't want to purchase the misc. wood separately, and because of that you would not purchase one of our kits, then that is your choice. I have shipped 30-40 kits in your area already (Fl). I can't understand why you would not already have this misc. wood in your shop already if you are a builder. I try to select commonly used wood to make it easy for the builder. I try to appeal to the mass, not everyone. You happen to be one that I can not appeal to, and I can accept this. Think about what it would take to develop a design and take it to market. Most people under estimate the significant investment and commitment that one has to make in order to be able to do this.

RCMAN - Believe me that I have gone through all the different scenarios. People don't understand what kind of investment one has to put in in the development of a new aircraft. I have hundreds of hours in the design of an aircraft, proto-typing, hundreds of hours in the development of the laser cutting files, and especially in the development of the construction manuals. My manuals have anywheres from 80 to 140 digital pictures of the aircraft under construction. I put in building tips and alternative set-ups. My construction manuals are 60 plus pages. I carry kits in stock so that I can ship out within twenty-four hours of the receipt of an order. I've already have a significant investment. Carrying bundles of misc. wood is not an option at this time, offering alternatives. I travel a great deal and have to rely on my family to ship out kits when I am on the road. I appreciate the ideas RCMAN, but believe me that I have evaluated them on numerous occasions, and because of the significant investment that I have already, and due to personal situation, I have elected to stay with the short kit approach. I am not the only company that has elected that take this route by any means. Offer suggestions on what and where different densities of wood is nothing more than expressing another opinion. This subject could be a novel in itself. I do not cater to entry level fliers to say the least.
Also realize that I offer my designs in a kit form because I love the hobby :) , and want to support it. It sure as heck not for the money!

My intent is not to offend anyone, and if I have I apologize for that. My intent is only to enlighten and support the hobby that we all love, otherwise we would not spend the time on this forum.
Take Care and Happy Flying!
Kevin

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

kevin4hsrcm - You got that right, no pain, no gain, for you selling your kit. Don't get me wrong I'm not putting you down for the way you choose to offer you product. I am mearly commenting on my preferences, which happen to run along with the trends coming forth in the industry today (kits as complete as possible). The hardware issues I can totally agree with you on, everyone wants something different. You may have shipped all those kits to my area and I wish all those that bought them the best. I am just saying that for me there are ARF's, really complete kits, kits without hardware, and short kits. At this station in my RC life I draw the line at something that requires me to place a separate order for, or dig in my scrap wood pile to come up with the sticks and sheeting to compete. Especially something I just paid close to $100.00 for (no matter how good it's suppose to fly).

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

When I considered my first hard bet the short kit was kind of a turn off. It seemed like it would be extra expense and another hassle but it is really only another 10 minutes worth of work, call up one of the many balsa suppliers tell them what you need and in 3 to 4 days you have your wood. a complete list is available with the kit and it is listed on the web site so you can order the wood the same time you order your plane. It's no different than buying gear, wheels, motors, etc.
I will say when you order your wood from a wholesaler you usually get heavier balsa. If your looking for the lightest ship possible you can go to the hobby shop and pick your own. All the balsa I have seen and bought lately (sticks) seems to be kind of heavy but I guess the plus side is you get a stronger ship. If your going to the trouble of building a fun fly that is different then whats a few extra minutes on the phone? The plus side it is to be the only one with a different plane than the 20 other knife's and pizzaz's at the field.

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

I've got a huge pile of 1/4 sq sticks and 1/16" sheeting in a box in my shop... When ever I buy balsa, I buy enough for a couple of kits.... it's just easier that way... I liked the idea of a short kit, that way I don't have to pay markup on wood I already have...

What kind of builder doesn't have a decent supply of basic wood?? Oh well, different strokes for different folks....

Lets talk HSRCM planes...
 

PaulSwany - It's not about having the wood on hand, I probably have what's needed to complete a short kit. It's about where I, (one person & one person only) draw the line. To more explain where I'm coming from let me say that I feel that "in every market the consumer controls the market". Look at all the ARF's, they're selling and everybody and his brother are producing them. Now let's look at this side of the coin, if we keep spending close to $100.00 of our hard found cash on which ever kit and still having to still look elsewhere for sticks and sheeting to finish it (considering all the other more complete kits that's out there). Then this must be what you as consumers want. Sorry not I.
JMO.