practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

JIVE TURKEY,
want me to send you a job classified?
we have lots of relatives in grand rapids...they keep asking themselves the same question.... :)

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

For anyone that has G2 if you go to the Realflight swap page at the Realflight web site, aircraft, page 4 and download the Ultimate 3D. You will not believe how well this plane will hover. It is fantastic to practice with and seems to be the same as say my Top Cap as far as rudder response and realistic hover. No add-ons are needed with this plane. The weather was crummy last weekend and I spent a ton of time with it. It has a DA 150 and tons of power. Jeff :D

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Flipper,
is the g2 worth it? been thinking about it

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

I am using a 2 Gig Dell and it is real as hell as far as I am concerned. I have learned a lot and tried things low and slow with airplanes and heli's that I would not have tried in real life. You can learn things and train your brain with only a reset to worry about with out buying and building a new plane. With the newer faster PC's I think it is great. It worked OK on my older 450 mhz PC but when I went to a faster PC to me it was perfect. You can really learn a lot. I went through what would have been 10,000 dollars in Heli parts the first weekend I had the G2 and just laughed. Great tool IMHO.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

thanks,
now who am i gonna get to pay for it?

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Got to go out and burn a gallon this afternoon (83 degrees , sunny, wind about 10 mph)
Question....why can I hover and hold it steady (even let it torque roll) while it drifts down wind...try it into wind and it is a nightmare. knife either falls out (left,right or forward) or wants to fly out or climb.The little i can hold her is not very steady....wing rocks..im all over the place.
also i can harrier down wind easy...up wind its up,down and all over....more gallons of fuel, or do i have a fatal error?

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

More fuel......

You'll get it. doesnt sound like its doing anything ab-normal

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Thanks Wayne.......more fuel it is!

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Check your CG. Move it back in small amounts until you can fly inverted with almost no down elevator. This will also help flatten out your flat spins.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

goinstraightup,
will give it a try in about45 min from now....will let you know how it works

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Hacker, the first time I "really" tried to hover my knife, last sat., I hovered pretty good the first time out, but I did do some damage to the front on a hard, unplanned landing after trying it too low. So after beefing up the front, taking it out again, it was a LOT harder, if not nearly impossible for me to hold it for any length of time. So the change in CG made a BIG difference! I moved it back,
and am anxious to go back out. Maybe tommorow.


I don't think I'll get a better computer soon, so G2 isn't in my near future, so I'm going to learn the "hard" way! ( hopefully, not more expensive, than going out and buying 2 gig's and g-2 )

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Jive Turkey, Goinstraightup,
i think you guys are correct...went out this afternoon it was way too windy to try moving cg around (20 mph breeze)but nice en warm 85....takes a lot of down to hold her steady when inverted.will try moving cg back next trip , sat morning..did see some improvement today hard to really tell with that kind of wind lots of fun slooooow backwards type landings....thanks for all the help. will keep you posted

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

O.K., I'm building a pbf to enhance my learning-to-hover-experience, just bought a flight pack and an o.s. 40 la. It's going to fit behind the seat of my truck, and stay there for those fly-just-once-or-maybe-twice-on-the-way-home-from-work urges ( I'll probably get that urge every day!)!

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Now your talking JIVE, it's way too nasty out to be beating up your knife learning to hover. I go through buchanan almost everyday, lets hook up and fly our pbf's together. 2 hover junkies are better than 1.

I'm so glad to finally see a local (well close) into hovering as much as myself. I have been following the thread closely and it reminds me of when I started hovering, REMEMBER it takes PATIENCE and lots of fuel/time or experience. I still have tons to learn and I think we would only motivate each other.

They say your only as good as the guys you fly with. Well the guys I fly with now all own at least one piper cub lol, not great company when it comes to hovering. And the guy I learned to hover with is into rc cars now, but he says he'll do some flying this year. We used to grab each others HOTS out of the air and release, I hope to be able to do it alone this year. At 33 I have tons of time and lots more to learn.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Side Note on Real Flight. I inherited an old 300mhz PC. Real Flight does fine on it. Also I have a version of that Ulitmate on my server with a lower pitch prop. As you get good with the G2 plane just keep making it smaller and smaller (in the edit part of the plane you can alter the wing span). They say it doesn't affect the way the plane flies but it really does.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Well it was a really crappy weekend weather wise.....but.....moved cg back , installed 11.5x4 apc and installed mouse can pipe on the knife....WOW what a diffrence. Much easier to hover/handle. still not very good but this is doable now.Unfortunatly only two short flights sunday then rain thunder and lightning. the changes feel very promising....more fuel!

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

here's an update; not much to report (life's been hectic lately) but the time I HAVE had, I built a pbf and flew it a couple times. Frustrating, at 1st, but once I stopped trying to fly it like a "real" plane, it was awesome! I've been able to launch it into a hover, and keep it there for a while! The weather really took a bad turn, we have a winter storm watch in effect for tonight and tommorow, scheeeezsh! But it won't last. As soon as things warm up (weather), and cool down (life)(oh well, no biggy, really, just time consuming) I'll take you up on that offer, HOVERIT.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Awsome, I'm bored to death with the guys in my club, most of them stand around and BS.
I almost have my knife dialed in for hovering now, I keep moving the CG back and it keeps getting better. I also found my copy of the morris knife video, and saw a close up of where they put there motors, way back, I moved mine back one set of mount holes, now I am moving it back one more time and expect it to be just right.
*** is with this snow we got? It should be decent enough to fly later this week or weekend so I'll see how it does.
We should hook up and fly when you get some free time JIVE, you say when and where and I'll try to make it happen.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Hey Guys
Last year was my first year flying and I give all the credit to G2
sim, wow! The guys at the field hooked me up to a buddy cord
and a good pilot- And I made my first landing in the first pass.
I was flying solo the 2nd flight and the rest of the day.
The next week I spent hovering on the G2.
The 2nd weekend I was torq rolling my Hanger 9 stick, Im not kidding, I must have crashed about a thousand times on the sim
but I was Hangin and I was green , the guys at the field couldnt believe it.
The funny thing of it all is be fore I started flying I herd a exprienced flyer tell a new guy to the sport that a simulator
wouldnt do him any good ! ( I SAY BS$#@& ***)
I burned 7 gallons of omaga before I had my 1rst mishap,
and that was because I was getting crazy and showing off !!!
I even got 30 points my first fun fly for going inverted on the limbo, Yup , I practiced that on the G2 also !
Wanna learn anything buy a G2 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S. Im not a G2 rep either. Seth.......
Columbia City, Indiana. :D

Re: Best TRing technique
 

I know this thread is pretty OLD, but I want to give all those who helped me out so much an update...........this "quote" boils it down, and quote # 20 describes what it's feelin' like!


Just the last few times out, I'm getting the feel for it, after many-o-try. Sunday at the field (there was a croud) and people were coming to me as I was flying asking about how to fly 3-D, I'm like, who, ME? (A guy that helped me solo 4 years ago was one of them, weird!) Also, overheard guys takin' about "hovering", "flat spins" etc. as I was in the air.


I'm not trying to toot a horn, or saying that I'm just flyin' to get attention (it's all about the fun; i.e.-FUN fly!). It's just that people are noticing, so I must be doing something right/different.


So................now each time I go out, I seem to progress faster and faster, and can keep it steady for what think, is a LONG time (15-20 sec.,maybe?) It just feels right, and I'm not thinking about control inputs at ALL...............except (there's always a catch!)......when it turns away from me!


What's the BEST way to prevent a hover from becoming a TR, or should I bite the bullet and just figure what I have to do to keep it rollin' ( which I plan to do anyway, I just thought I could learn to just hover first, for a whole tank full)?



p.s. hoverit, are you going to the open house at whirlwinds sun july 27, if so, see you there!

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

The BEST way to prevent a hover from turning into a torque roll is to first make sure the airplane is not at that "perfect vertical" position that we talked about before. A little forward will usually prevent it from rolling, but you will have t hold constant elevator.

Another very important thing is to MAKE SURE that the airplane never loses altitude while hovering. It will really start rolling if you let it descend a little bit. If anything, go up just a tad.

Hold the throttle at a constant setting give or take just a little.

The hardest way to stop it is to hold aileron and use more and more if it starts to roll. If you pump the throttle and time your aileron and tail surface movements to go with the throttle movements it can make this method a lot easier. Sometimes there just isn't enough aileron to hold it, but it depends on the airplane.

The truth is, hovering is harder than torque rolling. When it is rolling there is a natural stability that you get from that. I really think it makes it easier...If you can control it with it's back to you naturally (without ever having to think about it) then the torque rolls are great. After getting enough practice (so it is as natural as a boring aileron roll used to be) you can really start trying to hover it and it will come a lot easier. Then it's time for some hand grabs...Without telling the AMA of course.

It sounds like you're doing great so far. Any chance you can get some club members to snap a few shots? I think we would all like to see some pictures.

I guess the only advice to give now is to burn even more fuel! :)

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Thanks Brian, I'll try getting over the mental block that I CAN'T torque-roll the dog gone thing, and just practice doing whatever it takes to keep it hangin' all the way around!

Looking back at some of this extremely good info. that has helped me get this far, I read a post that said "to practice entering the hover bottom-side-to-you". I think I'll try this a bunch of times to "see what it takes" to hold it in that positon, and to get it around to "normal". Once I can do that, I should be able to continue it around & around & around...............! Hopefully?!?!............But one thing I have learned from this whole thing is, burning fuel (practice) IS 99% of this hovering thing!( funny how I concluded that?!) So I am confident, that with more practice I WILL GET IT!


The other 1% (I thought it was more like 20 or 30% before I started this thread; some "secret" that the 3-D world was in on, except me) But that 1% (or maybe a little more) IS very important and helpfull in getting an idea WHAT to practice (and practice and.........)!


So.........those of you who want it (hovering skills) as bad as I do, please read all you can about it, ask ?'s, seek help, and go out and DO it! Don't give up, or expect too much! Just when you think you'll never get it down, the next time out you start gettin' that "FEEL" (and man what a feeling it is!) than it get's better and better, easier and easier, till you hit a stumbling block, like me! That's why i'm back here, to hear from those who have allready been down the road I'm travelin'. Then it's back out to practice some more!


One more thing , Brian, I think it was one of your video's I saw [nice hovering/tr/grab/me-some-day ( there is a back-slash between those last 2!) by-the-way] I notice you and other seasoned hoverers, mix hovering and tr'n together to make for an awesome show! Combine these manuevers with some pattern type/clean aerobatics, and WHAT A SHOW!!!!!! Has anyone written up a program that use and are willing to share? I haven't followed the profile t.o.c. to much (always been too far) to see if there are any "known" programs that are followed, or if it's just freestyle?

I think it would be cool to have fun-fly aerobatic routines from novice to expert, if someone was willing to take the time. Maybe even having diff ones for diff planes, to highlight there strong points. Like one for a sledge and one for a knife, since there diff. animals.

Anyway, just a thought. I could use some pattern practice to "clean" up my flying. Instead of just flying around going from one manuver here, and another one over ther, etc.! But than again, there's that word again>
P-R-A-C-T-I-C-E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Brian, as far as stopping the tr, I read before how you hold back pressure, and this confused me, till now. I thought it would cause the plane to fall back.

But after your explanation, it's making sense!

It's all about the entry. If you don't pull completly vert., you need the pressure to hold it at that angle, so it doesn't fall forward, beginnig to fly.

I've tried right aileron, but it didn't work too good, seemed to make it fall out to the right. Maybe I used too much?


I'll grab my dad's digitall camera, and con my bro. into posting it for all your critique (or maybe pride, like teaching your kid to ride a bike..........well, maybe that wasn't the best annalogy?!)

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Main thing on a TR is to give it more up elevator when the belly is facing you.
99.9% of the time its going to fall out towards the wheels.
What you think it takes is most lilely less than what it in reality needs as far as back pressure.
The rudder control when the belly is facing you is secondary to the back pressure it needs.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

I have seen TR being done while the plane moves from left to right (or vice versa). What's the secret ?

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Its just drifting in the breeze thats all...

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Also in dead calm conditions, you can slightly point the nose in any direction and get it to walk where ever you want to while t-rolling.

Jasn

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

JIVETURKEY, you coming to the fly-in saturday in Elkhart?

I'll PM you.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Hoverit,
I'll be in AnnArbor sat. and won't get home till real late, or I'd be there. I'm pretty sure the WW open house is a week from sun, if you can come and give me some advice, would be cool!





When you guys talk about driftin' down the field TR'n, or moving around like that, it gives me goose bumps to think that if I keep doin' the P word, that'll be me some day!

I know everyone is different, but (if you were to stay at it), what's the average it takes to get THAT good? Are we talkin' years and years, or does proficiency like that come pretty quick, like a couple of seasons? Once you've master the basics, that is being able to deffinetly hold a hover or TR for a good lenght of time ( remember, I am talking averages, according to what you've seen or experienced) ?



I really have already met my original goal, thanks to your help and some determination, that is to be able to hover good enough for guy's at the field to say "Hey look, Ben's hovering!" Which happened last sun.! My buddy also told me he heard someone say, "Looks like he'll be getting a helicoptor soon". Which all feels good, but like I said before, is a good indicator of how I'm I'm doing, but for some reason is just plain fun to be able to make an airplane do something it isn't supposed to do!!!!!!!!!!

Another thing that's nice is, I heard all positive responses from everyone where I fly (except maybe one from the local critic, a guy who's been "flying" longer than I have, who hasn't soloed yet. but I expect it from him, no matter what you do). I know some of you guys who have horror story's to tell, but so far, it seems like a great place to practice 3-D! I DO try to give the trainees room, and either fly at one end, or be concious of the "pattern".

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Just read "How long to hover?" thread, kinda answered my question.


Keep it up Hal, were not in it alone!


I don't know what it is about hovering, but somewhere in this thread, someone said something like, "Once you get bit by the hovering bug, it's all you can think about." Very true! (unfortunatley for our wives sometimes! But if you're addicted to planes and STILL married, you probably better hang on to her, she's a keeper!)

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Wayne, take a look at Joe Hunt's video of the Kangke Laser 2000 at D O D website doing fantastic form of TR. I don't think it was drifting. The left-to-right "drift" was intentional.........

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Its doing both.
I have seen Joe fly and I know he can control a plane in a hover as good as anyone out there.
But, even though his shirt isnt moving much (breeze) there isnt enough pitch changing in that TR to make it drift like that.
I think its a combination of his thumbs and whatever small breeze there is.

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Torque rolling in a breeze is just as easy as a calm day, once the airplane is moving in the direction of the wind. Watching it cruise down the runway with the nose straight up is pretty exciting the first couple of times...Now I can't stand the wind.

Moving around in a hover (is that still a hover?) left, right, forward, and back, is now what I am practicing. That's all part of gaining more and more control over your aiplane. Makes me feel powerfull... :)

Jive, looks like you've got the elevator thing figured out. To hover let the nose forward just a tad and hold a little up elevator to keep it from falling forward...

Without going back to read all 112 posts in this thread, what kind of airplane and engine are you doing all this stuff with?

practice, practice, practice???(hovering)
 

Morris Knife & YS 63!