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Proper way to start J600R with powermax

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Proper way to start J600R with powermax

Old 05-24-2016, 07:44 PM
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Johnny9390
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Default Proper way to start J600R with powermax

Ive been reading the manual and forums and have not found straight answer.

1st should the powermax can be held upside down?? External tank direct from powermax

Or should it be upright?

2nd the selonoid is just an on/off right? I still have to control the amount of gas going into turbine with the trigger?
Old 05-24-2016, 10:59 PM
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David Gladwin
 
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[QUOTE=Johnny9390;12217623]Ive been reading the manual and forums and have not found straight answer.

1st should the powermax can be held upside down?? External tank direct from powermax

Or should it be upright?

2nd the selonoid is just an on/off right? I still have to control the amount of gas going into turbine with the trigger?[/QUOTE

I have been operating two 600rs for many years, last flew one last week, beautiful engines
.

Fill your our gas tank in the model, which should be vertical.
First drain anything in your ob gas tank to lower the pressure.
Fill the tank with Power max etc by holding that bottle inverted so that liquid fills your ob tank.
Disconnect your Powermax when liquid stops flowing into ob tank.
There is no regulator needed in the gas line.
Start the engine !
Both of my 600s are now operating with Xicoy Ecus , much smaller and more capable than TEMS but TEMS also worked very well.
My 600s start instantly, one is in a Bobcat, been flying 13 years, , the other in a BVM F 86.
Good luck,
David Gladwin,
ps I also have two 1300s, lovely engines, too.

Last edited by David Gladwin; 05-24-2016 at 11:01 PM.
Old 05-24-2016, 11:17 PM
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Art ARRO
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Johnny,
The Powermax canister contains a clunk and will generally feed liquid butane/propane to the trigger assembly whether upright or inverted. This liquid feeds an onboard or off board tank which provides gas to the turbine for its initial start. This tank is upright with gas flowing out the top. You really don't want to feed liquid butane/propane to the turbine. I generally leave the Powermax canister with its trigger assembly connected to the onboard or off board tank during startup to refill the tank as it is depleted. Just give it a short shot as needed. An off board tank is a safer setup in case of a crash and release of any remaining gas from the onboard tank to start a fire. You'll need a Festo check valve between the off board tank and the turbine to prevent venting of the tank when disconnected. The gas solenoid is simply an on/off valve which controls the flow of gas to the turbine during the start sequence. Hope this all makes sense.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
Old 05-24-2016, 11:41 PM
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David,
You're confusing the Coleman Powermax canister with the short,squat "camping gas" canisters used worldwide for camp stoves, etc. The Coleman canister is shaped like a large Robart air tank and contains an internal clunk and feeder hose/tube. I believe the Coleman canister is only available in the USA, and very rarely as of late. A trigger valve assembly was devised for the Coleman Powermax canisters to facilitate filling the onboard tank in gas start turbines. Your post description works for the "camping gas" canisters.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
Old 05-25-2016, 01:42 AM
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David Gladwin
 
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Originally Posted by Art ARRO View Post
David,
You're confusing the Coleman Powermax canister with the short,squat "camping gas" canisters used worldwide for camp stoves, etc. The Coleman canister is shaped like a large Robart air tank and contains an internal clunk and feeder hose/tube. I believe the Coleman canister is only available in the USA, and very rarely as of late. A trigger valve assembly was devised for the Coleman Powermax canisters to facilitate filling the onboard tank in gas start turbines. Your post description works for the "camping gas" canisters.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
I am am sure you are right, Art, I haven,t used or even seen PowerMax for years, Ithought it was discontinued. For my PST engines, my only gas starters, except my Pegasus, I use a can designed for plumbing blow lamps, a mix of propane and Butane. Works perfectly as described. Important thing is to get liquid into the ob tank, but only gas out !
David.
Old 05-25-2016, 05:26 AM
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David,
You are most correct. Coleman Powermax was discontinued a couple of years ago due to HAZMAT shipping charges to the consumer outlets. The charges were applied due to the larger quantity of propane/butane in these canisters as compared with the smaller camping gas/blow lamp applications. There are still Powermax canisters available on e-Bay and similar sources. The trigger assembly makes it convenient to fill the ob or off-board tank. Kero start virtually eliminated all this fuss.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
Old 05-25-2016, 05:53 AM
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Ok guys lets start over,

i will NOT be using the onboard gas canister. I have a one way check valve on the input line of the solenoid to connect the powermax canister to via the trigger valve.

so now my question is when starting the turbine do I hold the canister upright or upside down when depressing the trigger?? I heard that the powermax comes out in liquid form from the bottle but turns into gas after it passes the solenoid Hense you can hold upright. Is that correct??
Old 05-25-2016, 11:00 AM
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Johnny,
See my Post # 3. Again, it does not matter whether you hold the PowerMax canister upright or inverted as the internal clunk follows the liquid contained within. This liquid needs to be converted to a gas to feed the turbine for the initial start/pre-heat. An upright onboard or off board tank serves this purpose. The tank has to be vertical for this to occur. The short/squat camping gas canisters do not have a clunk and therefore feed gas when upright and liquid when inverted. I've ALWAYS used a onboard or off board tank for my gas start turbines-FTE-500/RAM 750+/Jet Central Rabbit. I guess you can try the direct feed method (with a Festo one-way check valve), to see if it works. Let us know.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
Old 05-26-2016, 07:39 AM
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Ah i see what you guys arw saying maybe i will use the onboard tank as a "off airplane start way" just keep filling it up. How many starts can you get with a full onboard can?
Old 05-26-2016, 08:33 AM
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Johnny,
The number of starts from an onboard or off board tank depends on the size of the tank and amount of gas consumed during the start. Some turbines start quickly or immediately after the start command from your TX or HDT, others do a prolonged start- usaully due to the weather conditions, hot/cold, high/low humidity etc. Some turbines also dump all the remaining gas after a start and during ramping. My FTE-500 utilizes a gas start tank similar to a CO2 cartridge which is usually depleted after a single start. I switched to a Jet Cat gas tank which is about the size of a Robart XS Air Tank and configured it as an off-board tank with a Festo ball valve in the gas line. I usually can get 2-3 starts with this setup and there's no danger of carrying gas aboard the model. The off board setup also includes a one-way check valve in the line-at the model's gas line.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
Old 05-26-2016, 02:03 PM
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Thanks Art,

I think thats what I will do. Seems like easier method. I have the onboard tank and will use it for off board starts..
Old 06-08-2016, 06:40 PM
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Art

one final pre check before I attempt a start. I have my OB canister I will be filling with powermax.
the proper way to plumb the canister it 3mm line connected to canister then to a T, one main to the canister the other to the powermax bottle for filling and the other side connected to the main gas one way festo to the selonoid. My question is after I start will that T valve keep gas from the canister from emptying itself after I start the turbine and disconnect from the model? Should I put a ball valve prior to the T connector to shut off the remaining gas to empty itself from the little OB canister?
Old 06-09-2016, 11:29 AM
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Johnny,
The ball valve should be between the OB canister and the trigger assembly on the Powemax canister. If an off board canister is used, then a one-way check valve, Festo, should be in the line to the turbine. You should follow David Gladwin's post except you will be using a Powermax canister with a trigger assembly instead of his inverted camping gas canister. Let me know how it all goes.
Rgds,
Art ARRO
Old 06-09-2016, 12:24 PM
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So I can fill the OB tank like this and disconnect and connect to solenoid side for starting


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