Freeman Jr.

My Feedback: (2)

And we wonder why racing is on a down swing

PylonWorld

The state of racing is fine. AMA racing has had it's problems from time to time, but there are many local classes going as strong as ever.

Even the Predator has been good for AMA racing.

Debate is healthy. It means that people still care. Start to worry when the debates end.

Bill Vargas

My Feedback: (5)

Its quite the opposite Freeman,,, Pylon is or should be at its largest this summer,,, Pylon hasn t been this big, like it is now,,, for years


Randy, I don t think Darrol could handle the excitment of pattern


BV

Freeman Jr.

My Feedback: (2)

Don first of all you did nothing but bad mouth the predator until you started hearing about people winning with them then they were the best thing in the world. And there is a difference between debate and trying to STIR THE POT.

Bill there is a slight up swing in racing but it is no where near what it was a least in our distict and some of the districts I goto for races. When a new guy is looking to get into this and all he can read about on the net is MONEY = SPEED that is not what he wants to hear. I have been doing this long enough to know what scares the new guys away, so you guys keep up the good work.........................................

PylonWorld

Well Gary,

I still don't think much of the Predator, but it has its place. As a matter of fact, I'm working on a "making it suitable for racing" text and photo document.

It is fine for people who can accept its quality level (ARFers in general), and I've heard that Bubba is working on improving it, too.

Speed = Money is applicable for all kinds of racing. It is well known and accepted. You get what you pay for, if you're knowledgable, anyway.

No Practice + No Effort = No Success is also a well known and understood formula.

The success of a district is related to the efforts of the people in the district. If they aren't motivated to get others involved, then how can you expect success?

If money were the problem, there wouldn't be months long waits for the Vortex, Miss Ashley II, or Sidewinder.

Freeman Jr.

My Feedback: (2)

Don,

That is fine at a national level ,but you guys are talking about Q500 which is a district event for the most part other then the nats and if guys see they have to put 30-35 dollar props on the 50-100 quickees they arent going to have it.

Hey Donny by the way what racers do you have right now!!!!!!!

See ya in FLORIDA

Bill Vargas

My Feedback: (5)

Bill there is a slight up swing in racing but it is no where near what it was a least in our distict and some of the districts I goto for races. When a new guy is looking to get into this and all he can read about on the net is MONEY = SPEED that is not what he wants to hear. I have been doing this long enough to know what scares the new guys away, so you guys keep up the good work......................................... [/B][/QUOTE]

Jr, If and when you are ready to go from 424 to 428,,, or from 428 to 422,,, you are going to need to INCREASE your Racing budget if you are wanting to GO FASTER,,, as in the case of wood props for 428.

I hope that helped you

BV

bl10

Actually racing, at least in the West is way down. In the last 4 years we have lost Sacramento, Modesto, Fresno, Merced, Las Vegas, Vanden Berg and Castle with no pickups. We had lost Whittier but they are going again. PHX still has the two big races per year and are now racing APRA only on a monthly basis. Local class racing is fairing worse than AMA. Local T-6 – Aircruiser is down from 12 races to 4 and entries are down from 50 to 20. JR has reduced the sponsor funding for the JR Gold by about 20%. The number of races across the country are down about 30% over five years ago. Q40 this year will probably have fewer than 30 races total down from 50 several years ago. APRA and 428 are in the same boat percentage wise only the numbers are a little larger. As I understand it SWRA, scale war bird racing, is at an all time low. I talked to a former Giant Scale VP just last night and he informed me Giant Scale was in a complete state of disarray and may not recover. Sonia and I go to every Q40 / 428 race within a 400 mile radius of Los Angeles. When I started in 1997 we attended 28 races. This year we will probably go to 12. While there is some ARF racing going on in Calif. it to is way down. Make what you want of these numbers but in my opinion it is hard to see how these numbers would indicate racing is healthy.


Just my opinion

Barry

Freeman Jr.

My Feedback: (2)

As I said before keep up the good work, and all 6 of you guys and who ever else wins lotto will have tons of fun racing Q500.

Leave the expensive stuff for Q40 the elite class and leave 428 and 424 as it is.

Rocket

My Feedback: (4)

hey don are you going to ft lauderdale

PylonWorld

Barry,

I don't doubt that racing is down from 4 years ago, but from a year ago when many were lamenting the down-turn, things seem to have turned up.

Many new people are trying out 424. Some will stay, and some will go, and some will advance to 428 and 422.

New people are trying out electric pylon. An all molded composite highly competitive Stinger 400 airframe can be had for $150. The Sokol can be had for $130, and Kevin Matney's Vixen with bagged wings is $130, or only $80 for the full kit. These planes provide the perception of 428 like speeds when flown on a 300 x 60 foot course. There hasn't been a ton of actual racing participation, but more races are being held. That is growth.

People are racing HOB AT-6's all over the place. Many prefer to keep it low key, but new AMA racers are coming out of these farm leagues.

The Predator has helped by bringing a low cost ARF quality plane into the picture.

I get comments and compliments for PylonWorld.com from new people coming into the sport. PylonWorld.com gets more visitors everyday than the NMPRA has members, and a lot of page views every day. So I know that people are checking out racing.

And just look at these forums. Many new faces are showing up. People are building Racer II's as their first racing type plane, and loving it.

It takes knowledge transfer, and effort to promote the sport to make it grow. Many people are making an effort to do both. Let's all keep up the good work, and be positive that good things are happening.

The experienced racers are always going to disagree about some things. Experience forms opinions. I think that newcomers understand that.

What will not help is personal attacks. Gary Freeman Jr.'s comments are an example of the bad side of some people. There are always a few people who have this kind of attitude in almost any sport or competitive activity. I made a place on PylonWorld.com for SEMPRA, and Gary said he would send me info, schedules, etc. So far I haven't gotten it, and it's not on the NMPRA site either. This is not a personal attack on Gary, just an illustration that people get busy, forget, or change their minds about their priorities.

PylonWorld

I wish I could, but I had more intestinal bleeding over the last couple of weeks. I'm feeling so bad, about all I can do is work on PW a little, and occasionally work on a plane. I'm having trouble even getting my AT-6 finished for a race on 4/20/02.

Is this Rocket Ray? If so, please send me your contact info and product info so I can get it onto PW.

I wish I could have come, but I've been in bed most of the last three days. I'm not ready for 422 in formal competition yet, anyway ... I would have come as a spectator.

BTW, who all is on Team Futaba? I want to list the JR and Futaba sponsored racers on PylonWorld.com ...

I'm a 8UA, but I hear the 9C's are really nice, too.

MaxQ

As a motivated new comer to Q500 racing I'm amazed there is no Q500 happening in central California. I just attended my first 424 event at Sepulveda Basin last weekend and I'm totally hooked on Q500 racing. Can't wait for the next race in my area. UNFORTUNATELY, the Basin and the upcoming Whitter race is 400 miles from the SF Bay area were I live. Q500 happening in Sacramento, Modesto, Morgan Hills anywhere in central California would be a blessing. To me the problem isn't a $35 prop but the lack of regional events.

Lonely in the Bay area.

PylonWorld

MaxQ,

If it makes you feel any better, travel has always been part of the equation, unless you get it started in your area.

Monroe, NC is about 40 minutes from Charlotte, NC.

In the 70's and the heyday of F1 racing, we had people come to the races from Vermont to Miami to Dallas to Ohio. Check those distances out on a map. The races were large and well attended. The area also produced Nats winners and NMPRA championship winners.

My dad, Jim Stegall, and his good friend Bill Helms (now deceased as of 2001) were leaders in the club and obtained a site that was great for pylon racing. They were instrumental in getting a very nice paved runway installed, and we had sleeves in the ground for 4" PVC pylons. The course could be turned 180 degrees in minutes. They designed the field layout so that it would work for everyday sport flying and for racing. They helped new racers, and they created interest in racing.

I was fortunate as a youngster to mingle with people like Harold Coleson, D.C. May, Tommy Baker, Cliff Telford, Bob Violett, Jake Jacobsen, Jim Maki, Bill Williamson, Bruce Richmond, Brian Richmond, Bob Brogdon, Irwin Funderburk (F1 Nats winner 1975), Mike Helsel, Jerry Nelson, and on and on.

But we also traveled to events in Florida, Georgia, Maryland, and of course, wherever the traveling Nats went.

If there are clubs in your area, there are potential racers in your area. You have to make friends with people who seem to have an interest, and help them spend some of their money, so you will have some competition. Others see the fun, and they want to join in.

You may be new to the sport, but you can still be a leader. Getting some pylons up, even if it's just for a day can be a turning point. Especially if you get some guys on the course with sport planes. One tip ... make the course shorter than the long course, but long enough for them to be comfortable. People who have been flying Park Flyers as well as bigger planes may be your best candidates. They are accustomed to flying around themselves, which is initially scary to most people.

Freeman Jr.

My Feedback: (2)

"In the 70's and the heyday of F1 racing" QUOTE FROM DON STEGALL :

Don it is not the 70's anymore so maybe you should try and attend or even show up at a race and see what it is all about.

Ed Smith

I spend more money on travel and motels than I do on the hobby. I live in Ontario, 180 miles east of the Detroit border crossing and 90 miles west of Buffalo. My biggest frustration is getting around Lake Erie. I can drive for four hours east and west before heading south, just to be 80 miles from home in a straight line. I guess I need a boat. My nearest contest is 200 miles to Detroit. All of the others are eight to nine hours driving.

The point I am trying to make here is that if you want to do it bad enough ..........................

Ed S

PylonWorld

Did you happen to read this message to RR?

>> I wish I could, but I had more intestinal bleeding over the last couple of weeks. I'm feeling so bad, about all I can do is work on PW a little, and occasionally work on a plane. I'm having trouble even getting my AT-6 finished for a race on 4/20/02. > I wish I could have come, but I've been in bed most of the last three days. I'm not ready for 422 in formal competition yet, anyway ... I would have come as a spectator.

PylonWorld

MaxQ,

Another thing you can do is learn to fly ... full sized airplanes. If you're young enough to justify the expense and have no medical problems it is a great way of getting around.

Your area would be a little problematic in that you would probably have to get an instrument rating, but it looks complimentary to your profession as a Wind Tunnel Engineer.

With a Cherokee Six or a Lance you could easily carry another person and your planes. Now is a great time to buy an airplane, too.

One of my occaisonal duties at Monroe was going to pick people up at the nearby Monroe airport. It has a 5500 x 100 ft runway and plenty of tie-down and hanger space.

Even though my medical problems prevented me from getting my ticket, I have 80 logged hours in Cherokees, and numerous un-logged hours in complex and multi-engine aircraft. But my wife said I had to pick one or the other, so I'm staying with the ones I can fly without an instructor or other PIC.

Scorpionjack

Freeman;
Why are you so negative towards Don? If you have a personality conflict take it off the forum! ( There is private messaging) I hope your not one of the guys I raced with in 1989 at the Tangerine with Q-500's and F1's. Because I thought you were all a bunch of nice guys and great to talk racing with (It will be disappointing if you are one of those guys). Bringing up F1 in any racing Forum only shows the individual isn't new to this sport, and they may have something to add to the discussion.

I for one have been very impressed with the caliber of conversation from Don S,Bill V, Ed S, bI10, Randy S, Team Futaba and so many others within this forum as well PylonWorld is an excellent example of someone trying to help the sport of Pylon Racing within our hobby. Bill V another person with a great attitude about racing.

Up here in the Frozen Tundra of North Dakota our season is so short, we race and drive to races as many as 12 + hours one way just for the comardarie and challenge of racing. Being 60 Miles from the Canadian Border we mainly fly in Canada but here in North Dakota we fly the same rules as Canada. It's great racing and we get a couple new faces every year. 2 More new ones this week! But I had to give them each an airplane, but what the heck if it brings in new blood I really don't care. Point is were all here to promote Pylon racing. Like in Field of Dreams (Build it and they will come)! The more exposure we have the more people will get back into the sport of racing.
424 is a good way to do it. Then there is 428, 422 for progression. : ) Electrics maybe but I need the sound !!! LOL

bob27s

My Feedback: (19)

Hi Folks.....

I think many of you know me. Ive been involved with racing up with NEPRO, SEMPRA, CAPS.... where ever I happened to live at the time.... and I fly in any of the racing events available be it with K&B .40 power (dating myself now), or full blown QM.

I think the most competitive racing I was involved with was flying down with SEMPRA. Im sure Gary and Ray will remember a few of the races I ran up in Atlanta where we ran 428,qm and SEMPRA all on the same weekend, and we had about 25 pilots flying qm/428 and usually 35-40 flying SEMPRA class. Those were some great racing weekends, with lots of competition. I think a lot of the success with SEMPRA (and with NEPRO for the same reason) has to do with the fact.....it is pretty much the only game in town. There are pretty much NO 428 races there. Atlanta and Decatur AL were about the only places a few years back that ran 428. This means the expert guys (including veterin 428 racers) fly along side with the less experienced pilots. This made the racing competitive, and the less experienced racers learned a lot flying with the top-end guys. There were seperate EXPERT and STANDARD class catagories for awards, so people were awarded for achievements. As I said, NEPRO does the same thing.

I think this unity helps keep some good racing going down south, and in the New England. When there is a core group of 15 or 20 hard-core racers, and you can pick up 4-5 locals..... that makes for a decent event. Not quite what it was with 40-50 racers, but not too bad.

I think what I am getting at here, my view of racing over the past 2 years, shows a DEFINATE decline. From what I have seen, the core group is there, but there is little interest on the local level.

A lot has to do with expense. Although there has been some good, recent information in the modeling press on 424 racing, there is still a perception of $350 engines in $400 composite airplanes. The average flyer with a little interest is resistant to the idea of traveling to races. I do what I can to dispell some of these ideas, and regularly allow others to fly my TT40 powered "wood" scratch-built PaceMaker. The whole setup, including the servos, is probably under $250, and it is pleanty fast for most of them.

A LOT has to do with the fact that our 428 and even CAPS speeds required using the long 2.5 mile course, and preceived dangers required the off-course judge system (generally a good thing). The problem with this, is it requires a great deal of space to set up the course. A secondary problem is logistics, with the transport, setup, storage and security of the off-course equipment. In at least 3 cases I know of, race events were lost because the race course simply would not fit on a club field anymore. In my particular case, I spent many hours trying to devise a layout that would allow me to host a race at my field up here near Cleveland. Our club has a big field with a 200 foot by 450 foot prepared grass surface. However, the surrounding area is not 100% level, some obstructions in the wrong place, and a tree or two in the wrong place. Disappointing. What I could accomodate is the 2.0 mile short course...... but that is not the standard course in this area. I might still be able to pull off a race with CAPS and 424, but 428 is out of the question.

The racing venue/club field issue, combined with more recent racing proceedures and rules, have become perhaps the most overlooked, signficant factor in determining where racing occurs. The 'once a month' club racing I use to know as a kid is impossible these days, since even Q500/25 racing is still governed by the same AMA safety requirements as QM40.

Anyway.... I figured I would drop in my 25 cents.

Bob Brassell
Avon, OH

R.Bridge

Hey boys, what's happening......just got back from Florida JR Gold Cup and had a great time.

I read through this thread and I just wanted to say, take it easy on Freeman JR. He is one of the most experienced Q500 fliers in the country and is extremely talented (more than I). I've learned many things from talking to him and certainly from watching him fly.

He may have some strong opinions towards the Q500 class and the future of it. He spends more time than anyone I know helping the new guy get started in this class. He is very hands on and receives the most feedback about the state of the class, from a new fliers.

Sometimes it may be difficult to read someones tone on the web, and I'm sure Gary is not trying to make enemies !!


You all have a great day...

Randy Bridge
TeamJR

Gomil1

OK Guys,
My friend and I would like to get into 424 racing. We just ordered a Racer II and a Thunder Tiger 40. Where are the next races in Florida taking place.We are not too far from Ocala.
We would like to go to a couple of races and see how they are run .I would appreciate any info
Jim Rogers
[email protected]

Rocket

My Feedback: (4)

email gary freeman jr, he can help you with the info you seek. i live in n miami and would be glad to help also but i dont know the schedule. RR

[email protected]