daven

My Feedback: (1)

I want to throw this out there, since it will be discussed at our annual NCPL meeting.

Do custom built Woodies belong in 424, or should this be an all ARF class (Sonics, Vipers, Predators)?

We have people making their own fiberglass fuzes, I have my own competitve wood plane, and one other racer has a plane that is always fast. We are using skinned hinges, enclosed linkages, and other speed secrets and probably have an advantage over the ARFs.

I know there are a few locals who would like to see this an all ARF class, I'd just be curious as to your opinions.

Please respond to the poll, and put any comments below.

diggs_74

I haven't really been at this long enough to have much of an opinion.... However, I have flown a few "comercial" quickies and some home designed kits. I've been beaten by both, while flying both, so I don't think it matters

js3

My Feedback: (3)

Dave,

I voted for "Allow any plane that meets the AMA Rule Book Spec (Arf or kit)". However, I don't think this should include composite planes such as the Neme-Q, Vortex, BOP, VMAX etc.

People should be allowed to build their own woodie for <$50 in materials if they choose to do so.

willflyforfood

I think that the idea of building your own kit and putting in those little tips and secrets is half of the fun, but there are also people out there that hate building, don't have time, or really couldnt care less. An arf class is not bad either, because anyone that that races their "tips and secrets" built planes surely would'nt mind the close competiton of exact arfs either.

kenthaas1

Dave i think our 424 rule is it has to be a plane that you can get for 200.00 or less after that anything you do to it is OK
so if i can get the same plane then its OK my .02

oddy

Hi Daven:

In my personal point of view......any Custom built or ARF plane should be allowed.

If some pilots hate building or are simply not intrested in doing it,,,,,,,they must pay the price of it which might be having to compete against planes with those racing secrets (always meeting rules)

Just an opinion

diggs_74

At the speed that the 424 planes go, how much do all the little things (ie. skinned hinges, hidden linkage etc) get you. Does it get enough to really make a difference. Dave, I'm sure if we switched planes durring the last NCPL Q500(sort of 424) race you would have whipped me with the old Sonic 500 and I would have made your Seeker design look slow . I also watched some great end of the season fly offs where a visibly stock Viper took the whole thing. This being the case I think it wouldn't do much to seperate ARFs and home builts other than cut the class in half.

Just my .02 worth.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

I think everyone knows my opinion on this, but I have heard it from more than one local flier that "equiptment envy" does bother some 424 fliers.

I am not trying to debate that side right now, but am just curious "if" making it an all ARF class would be better for 424 in general?

I enjoy building as most know, and will always try to make a better mousetrap. Unfortunately, if I win a few too many races, or do well, there is always that perception that its the plane and not me. If you look at the majority of the racers who do well in our 424 class, they all tend to fly custom built "woodies".

Are we pushing people away that don't have time to build, can not build, do not like to build, etc. ?? It tends to be that the its the older crowd that likes to build more, I am concerned that the younger "ARF" crowd won't even be interested in racing if they feel that they are at a disadvantage (perceived or not) in getting started.

And to think I now have a cat named "woody", how ironic.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

John,

You mentioned <$50 in materials. I gaurantee I have more than $50 in any of my home built quickees (not electronics, tank, gear, etc..). I'm using kevlar, carbon fiber, laser cut kits. I don't skimp on materials, and try to use the best regardless of cost.

Is it price, materials, etc...?

P. Johnson

My Feedback: (1)

OK, Correct me if I am wrong,,,but the proposal out there is to make 424 a ARF only class ???

[] I was thinking of getting back into racing just because it looked like I could afford it, (woody with a TT40 and my sport radio). Now you are proposing that I HAVE to buy the $200 ARF just because you think that it would make it fair?

I Guess I need to rethink my summer activities and winter building projects!!!!!
I ask again..Didnt this used to be a hobby where half of the fun was creating an Airplane that I could bring out and say " I built this"?

I really miss racing!!!!
I DO NOT miss the ........................never mind. I will step off of my soap box and let the $$$ talk [&o]

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Storm,

There is NO proposal out there that I am aware of to abolish building a kit, or designing your own Quickee.

I am just throwing it out to the Lions.

I don't agree with it either, but I'm afraid that the silent newcomer would probably prefer such an arrangement.

I am just trying to get a flavor for what the new guy is looking for, were not attracting a lot of new racers, and since the ARFs have been available, we have found a few. I think its the ARFs that have done this. Can we capitalize on this, without ticking off the older crowd?

The available arfs (Predator, Sonic, and Viper) are all in the $100-$120 range, not $200.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Just for an example, I noticed that the Extreme Speed Forums have roughly twice as many posts as the Pylon Universe Forums.

There are plenty of people that want to go fast, they just want to be competitive.

P. Johnson

My Feedback: (1)

I agree to let the new ppl that want a ARF to be able to race...as long as some of us OLDER builders can still bring the race what you built Q500...Personally i fly on a shoe string budget and just want to race again...REALLY badly...BuT I can No longer afford to race 428 so my only options are to go with 424 and prove that thumbs and practice will beat a full wallet on almost any day. That is what we want the newbie to realise,,,That its all about sharing and helping people learn how to fly the ariplane..NOT to drain there wallet. (climbs back off soap box)

willflyforfood

Speaking of just getting started, does anyone race around the Shreveport / Bossier, or Ruston area of Louisiana? I am trying to find people around (at least in the near vicinity) the area that fly q-500 (424) to fly with, that is when I finally get my plane built.


Joey

diggs_74

I had a big long reply all typed out but it sounded to much like Dub's Crap Trap

It doesn't matter what you race with in 424 just as long as you get out and race... It's the most fun I've ever had in RC and just about anything else I do with my spare/rare time.

StregaFlyer

Pete,

Get a ThunderTiger, scratch build some woodies and come race.. There's 2 424 races in Rockford, and there's a few north of rockford in Wisconsin. St. Charles Illinois will be having 424 races again, as there new field has been opened..

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

The extreme speed guys are mostly posers, that want to fly fast airplanes, but can't handle getting crushed in actual competition. I could have paid for a full season of racing Formula One if I only got $5 for every guy that has told me that "I used ta fly Formula One". That usually meant that they flew one once and either crashed test flying or at the first (and last) race. Pylon racers are a strange tough breed. When they fail, they just try again and again and again and......

Ed Smith

Dave,

Why did you start this? 424 rules are in place and quite explicit. The only time this stuff comes up is when people want to deviate from existing rules. This should be discouraged.


For the first time that I can ever remember I actually agree completely with High Plain's post! Just do not take this as a sign of weakening.

Ed S

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

I'm slipping.........

Ed Smith

Badly.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Ed,

I don't want to deviate or change the rules. Just throwing this out for discussion.

I think its a fair question.

Would we attract more racers, if we made it an all ARF class?

I'm really not sure of the answer, and that is why I posted it.

js3

My Feedback: (3)

Dave,

I have no doubt that you spend more than $50 for your home-built woodies. You're also putting Nelsons on the front of them. If the intent is to build a plane for 424 and Thunder Tiger .40 power, don't you think you could scratch-build a Scat Cat for less than $50? No CF or Kevlar is needed. I'm not talking about all the hardware like wheels and tanks that have to be purchased anyway--just the airframe.

oddy

The most restrictions you put on a category,,,,,,specially those which force the pilots to get a higher cost plane will tend to reduce participation on that category.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

John,

I build all of my quickees to handle a Nelson, but I often use the same planes in both classes. Yes, you can build a standard 424 plane for less than $50 in wood, probably less than $30 if you buy in bulk.

I have a feeling that the biggest opponents to such a change, would be from the long time racers, and not the people that actually race 424.

Dave

DMyer

My Feedback: (2)

I don't know why we are talking about this subject.... 424 is the only fully healthy class of racing.... with good, consistent turnout for local events. Leave it alone!!! Don't even talk about change of any type. What you do need to do discuss is how we get a decent percentage of the 424 flyers to move up to the much faster 428.... 428 at the local level is hurting very badly in many parts of the country.

Dan