Per_N

I got an early drawing from Dave on the Seeker. Probably a year ago, but finally I have start building now.
Because I haven't got any laser cutted kits, I decided to mill so much I can. Much more job, but I wan't to try the
method Dave have used with pins (don't now the right word) that snug fit in the fuselage sides.
Whit a lasercutted kit this must be awesome.

Unfortunately this pictures are at my clubs forum and all text are at Swedish, but you can always see the pictures
and see the progress anyway.

You can find the pictures here http://vmf.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=67


Best regards
And thanks to Dave for the drawing.

Per

rmenke

My Feedback: (13)

Per:

Thanks so much for sharing your prorject with us! Your pics are exceptional. Some of the pics show framing sitting of some sort of metal blocks, or something. What is it? I think it is a great pleasure to share our hobby with guys and gals from all over the world. Modelers are simply the best people in the world. ENJOY

daven

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Per,

Everything looks great, hard to tell thats not a laser cut kit.


Great Job!!!

Per_N

rmenke
I have taken a full length of balsa board (1000x100mm) and glued it together with the doubler that is half the length. Next step is the metal blocks you said. This is a CNC milling machine. I have tejp my balsa board on long aluminum board, the I mill out the contour of the fuselage sides. That's what you see.
BTW. the forms on pictures are not glued yet, if you wonder why some them fits so bad.

Regs
Per

diggs_74

Looks great Per... You'll love the plane, it flies as good as anything out there. Are you doing you're own wing or buying one for it??

Per_N

Yes I should make my own foam wing. I have CNC made templates for Naca66. It will soon come pictures on that too.
Maybe I will put this building report to English too. I will let you know then.


Maybe I should also say that my first intend is not to run the AMA428 with this, because it's very small here in Sweden.
I run the AMA424 class so the plane is a little overkill for that in strength I mean. But if I want to run the AMA428 there is
only need to change the engine.

I hope the Naca66 will work for the AMA424 to, thus any have experience?

Regs
Per

Per_N

I have now glued every forms together with the fuselage sides. And I must say that I am very impressed how well every things fit.
It's like building a puzzle.

I wonder if you sand your tail fuselage to a razorblade sharp end? because the end piece where the music wire should be and also
the top piece is sharp. The fuselage will not fit this 2 pieces until you sand the end of the fuselage to fit them. Am I right?

#2, Why is the front wing hold down block thicker than the back and landing gear block. (Easier when baying, if it was the same.)

#3, Thus anyone how any instruction how to do the wing dowels? this is completely new for me, so some pictures of what kind of
tools you using and how you do it would be very nice. This part and the skinned hinge tail would be the most difficult I think.
I have the instruction from NMPRA of the skinned hinge but it still looks difficult. [&o]

Regs.
Per

diggs_74

Per,

The tail point of the fuse is sanded to a fine edge but it's done after the fuse is glued at the back then sand it down using the ply top and bottom pieces as a template to sand to. I'll see about getting you some pics of that if I can... Otherwise, maybe Dave will chime in with a better explanation. The skinned hinge isn't bad once you get the first one out of the way. I would just take a piece of 1/4" balsa and do a practice one first then move on to the real one. The wing hard points aren't too bad, I'll see if I have some pics somewhere of that as well.

I have been using the Naca66 airfoil in 424 as well as many others.. While I'm not sure if you get any advatage at the 424 speeds, it seems to fly well and lands like a trainer at a CG of 2.75" to 3".. Any further back than 3" and things can get a bit hairy

daven

My Feedback: (1)

#1 I attached a couple pictures how I do it.

#2 The front wing block takes more stress than the rear. You could do them the same thickness (1/4") if you'd like, its just a hair heavier.

#3 Heres what I do for wing dowels. I buy 5/8" thick solid dowel material from the hardware store. I cut it down to about 1 1/2" sections. I then drill a pilot hole through the center of the dowel in my drill press with a jig that I made. The pilot hole that I drill is the EXACT same size as the tap size drill bit I intend to use for the wing bolts. I use 1/4 20's in the front and 10 24's in the back. It is very important that you have the pilot hole drilled in the center of the dowel before glueing the dowel into the wing. Its VERY tough to get the hole drilled in the center after its installed. I have a jig that I use to drill the pilot holes into the wing so I know they will hit the wing blocks on the fuse perfectly. You will have to make measurements and carefull line up where the dowels will go in the wing. Next, I will take a 5/8" HOLE saw and drill a 5/8" hole through the wing in the proper place. Test fit you dowels through the holes and make sure they fit. Spray the dowels and foam inside the wing lightly with water. I use Probond Polyurathane glue to glue the dowels in. It foams up very nice and gives you a solid bond inside the wing. Don't worry about the foaming glue around the dowels as it dries. It is sandable.

For 424, skinned hinges are nice, but not completely necessary. As to the airfoil, it truely is best in 428, however you won't give up anything in 424 and you'll love how neutral it flies.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

I had started on some instructions a while back, but never finished them.

This info may help.

http://www.lcsperformance.com/seeker...tructions.html

Per_N

Yes Dave and Diggs for you quick response. I'll understand perfectly what you mean Dave. To get the holes in center is no problem at all.
I just put them in the lathe machine. i have a hole workshop I can use.

Dave, next time you sneak down to your planes, try to get a picture of your jig that drill you hole with.

You said you use a saw to drill with. Like this one? but smaller of course.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

A Lathe works good, I've done that before at my Father-In -Laws before I built a simple jig for my drill press. The trick with the drill press is to not hurry. Just go slow, and the bit will hit the center on the bottom side. The only time I get them crooked is when I hurry.

Your picture of the hole saw is similar to what I use, but that one is short and fat, the one I use is longer and skinnier. It needs to get all the way through the wing at the front, which is roughly over an 1" long.

the Jig I use to drill the bolt holes for is just a pilot hole jig for the front bolts (the backs are easy to measure). I'll take a picure later, I gotta run, its our 17 year anniversary and the wife wants to go to a movie and dinner...

Per_N

Thank's Dave
Have a nice evening with your wife.

Per

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Heres a few pictures that may help.

Per_N

Thank's Dave. It give some help.

Per_N

Hi
I have know put the project on my site with some English text and pictures.

http://www.pyloncorner.com/eng/seeker.htm

More will come when I have the timed to build.

Regards
Per

daven

My Feedback: (1)

You are quite the craftsman Per, everything looks great, including your english.

Per_N

Thank's Dave

I have now glass my tail, but I'm not sure of the thickness of glass I should use. Are you using the thinnest type of glass?
And are you doing just one layer or more?

I have used the thinest glass in one layer, but I think that will be to little. But not sure. Here the thinnest glass is 25grams on one square meter.
So I have some difficulties to understand the oz you are talking over there.


//Per

djlyon

That's about .7oz per sq.yd.. A little light but probably OK for 424

daven

My Feedback: (1)

That weight is fine for paint, but if you intend to do skinned hinges, you will need more thickness. I use a layer of 4 oz for the hinge line (cut on the bias) and .7 oz over that for paint.

If .7 oz = 25 gsm, then 4 oz would be roughly 142 gsm.

Per_N

Thank's did you know that or do you have any formula to calculate it?

Per_N

Thank's I guess I will do a ordinary mylar hinges for this one. I just remember now that I forget to lay the fibers in
45 degree also. But I'm building 2 planes now, so I will try with the other one instead. Do you think there are any benefits
to talk about with skinned hinges in 424? It looks to me that it is a lot more of work with the skinned hinge type.
In 424 we usually don't lay any glass at all on the tail, just cote it with oracover or monocote and it works just fine.

But we have'nt used any V-Tail before, maybe they are exposed for more stress than a T-Tail? I don't know.

/Per

daven

My Feedback: (1)

I just did a math correlation.

If .7 oz = 25 GSM then 4 oz would be 142. something.

I work with GSM at work quite a bit. All the paper I buy from Europe is sold that way. I wish the US would go with GSM. Everything is relative, and you don't have to work with different units (Ounces, Pounds, and Tons).

daven

My Feedback: (1)

.7/25 = 4/X

X=(25*4)/.7

X=142.857

kane

Per, there are no addittional stresses with the v-tail.

Skinned hinges work fine but a well built tail without is just as good. Once you have done one you will find that the skinned hinges are a bit easier, but only if you are going to glass the tail. When you cover the tail conventional hinges are fine.

Dan