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Q-500 Racing Discuss AMA 428, AMA 424, and any other variants of Quickie 500 racing

best setup speak out!!!

Old 02-10-2006, 02:02 AM
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DMUCOP
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Default best setup speak out!!!

OK 428

best motor nelson or jett

best plane

servos

batt

fuel tank

wheels

landing gear

blah blah

I want to go to the nats and win this year...

speak your mind!!
Old 02-10-2006, 02:03 AM
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DMUCOP
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

and why?!
Old 02-10-2006, 02:44 AM
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HighPlains
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

The fact that you don't know any of these things means you would have zero chance to win the Nats in 428 Quickie. If you work at it for a couple of years and spend the money to go racing, you have about a 25% chance of placing in the top 10 if you can fly well enough. Anybody can buy the stuff and learn how to use it, but the flying skills are just not there for most people.
Old 02-10-2006, 03:04 AM
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TIA
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

The truth has never hurt so bad!
Old 02-10-2006, 08:19 AM
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

Yep, you missed the most expensive item... Good thumbs
Old 02-10-2006, 08:34 AM
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daven
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

Let him have a little ambition

If you don't already have one of the best planes, chances are, you won't be able to get one before the Nats unless you can buy a used one from someone. The past 6 nats have been dominated by the Vortex, but that list is at least a year out, and questionable weather Chuck intends to continue selling them. The NemeQ plus is VERY close to the Vortex, but also out well over a year. Your next options are the SlingShot, Shotgun, or Bird of Prey, although all nice planes, not in the class of the other two (IMO).

As to motor, most prefer Nelson over Jett. However, there are plenty of Jetts going fast and Mike Helsel did when Quickee last year with a Jett. Personally, I prefer Nelson as they tend to be a little more consistent to learn how to prop and needle when your starting out.

As to Servos, lots of opinions on this one. Top guys are using a lot of Digital JR 3421s or Futaba 9650's on critical surfaces (aileron and elevator) and smaller servos for throttle Futaba 3102, Hitec 85, and the mini JR (can't remember the number).

Batteries range from NICD 350's, to Nimh 500's, to Nimh 720s (either 4 or 5 cell). I like the Nimh 500's, but you need to keep an eye on them. Pretty much personal opinion.

Fuel tanks are either 5 1/4 oz Tettras or 6 oz Jetts. No other tank makes sense to me.

Wheels, you need the pizza cuttters or slimline wheels.

Landing gear comes with most of the planes.

Good Luck, see you there.
Old 02-10-2006, 02:22 PM
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rmenke
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

DMUCOP:
I HEAR A SPARK THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE FLAME. I am one of those that you just have to show me your stuff. I never got a chance to go the the Nats in Q-500 as life would have it. From racing exlperience, 1990, a guy that could never beat me in a local race in go-carts went to and won the Nats. He came back all puffed up and got is buns burnt. Given, I was the West coast champ at the time. What I am trying to say from experilence is GO FOR IT!. Take the advise from the guys here as best you can in the time you can, practice practice practice. I am going to try to go myself this year as I want to meet Dub Jett and Bob Brazil, Dave Shadel, Dave Norman, along with a others I have developed a affection for through the years. You will learn more from the Best at the Nats in a few days than in years trying in other directions. Take-steal or otherwise get information from the best there is and then use it to beat them. Please note the National Chammp this year is a old fart in his 60's. He was top dog this past season from years of eduction and practice, practice, practice. I hear every day! He flew Nelsons, but I noticed that the fastest speeds were by Jett. This tells me that he would have a easier time winning with the Jett! GO FOR IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Send me your name on a pm, and will try to find you there. I am one of the real old farts who still loves racing in any form after 60 years of it! ENJOY
Old 02-10-2006, 06:05 PM
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DMUCOP
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

My name is Dan U. I have been racing for years (I was that 16 year old that beat you)

I took a few years off. My dad got me in to q500 when I was about 14 as he was getting out I am now 28.

He designed the aerostar 500 and the Nitro 500 foam wing Fiberglass fuse...

I now has the fuse molds and I am getting ready to make a wing mold.

I guess I could of said whats hot now.

I need the top wing design so I can make a plug for my mold.... all my guys ran nelsons I think I may get one of each and some spare parts and find what I like.

Thanks for the ideas... Keep them coming!

Negitive people go away....
Old 02-10-2006, 07:00 PM
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

Dave, or anybody .......

Interesting start to a thread but it did bring up some good conversation. In your opinion, what makes the Vortex the superior airframe? Especially compared to other planes using the same airfoil and construction. Is it superior or do the better flyers just stay with it?

Roger S.
Old 02-10-2006, 11:30 PM
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

Ouch, hard question. Everyones' at TGIF's at the moment, but nearly every Vortex I've seen fly, sure seems like the cat's meow.

But if I build 5-6 planes there might be one that has the fewest mistakes built into it nessesary to have the p00p to putt.

Racing is like golf, fewest mistakes, wins. Good equipment wins
Old 02-10-2006, 11:53 PM
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splatt
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

I'm not sure if I want to retire the meatball express, But here's my new wing from Randy. He sure loves makin' wings
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Old 02-11-2006, 12:13 AM
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splatt
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

I love racing the OS 46 class we do over the summer, these engines are so consistant and the crowd we race with can be so equal we
can have 4 different models fly in the same bushel basket of air for 10 laps and each will have there own style to win or lose.

I do spent time on pylon 1 watching my friends fly..

Design does rise up, Scat cats won't do it.

A well built "built up" can do it because of it's light weight. Seen it.

A trimmed and balance Pred or Viper can do it too.

Watching a fast quckie, it has to knife edge clean, with out the tail dropping or looking odd turning around one. No stirring of the sticks.

Gotta have a wing that got the fat part 30% or more back, after that it's all those little things that drive you nuts.

good luck


Old 02-11-2006, 05:34 AM
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dapan
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

hi
I am very interesting to see daven answer....
I fly with shotgun and for this year i buy and the slingshot, what is the advantage of Vortex and Neme Q and the disadvange of the others.
It's importan to know your oppinion cause next year maybe i buy and fly witn Vortex or Neme Q I beleive only hard work make the pilots better.

dapan
Old 02-11-2006, 08:24 AM
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Mikey D
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

Hi
I too am interested in Dave's response. IMHO I have seen the Vortex at many of NAT's and many of the local races here in the Midwest. What seems to stand out is that the Vortex seeems perfectly balanced. Takeoffs for example seem to be superior to any other plane out there. Yes pilot has something to do with this, but the balance of the plane (Incidence, moments, CG etc...) are contributing aids. I can't tell you how many times I have seen a competitive race determined by how the plane get's to number 1.

FYI, I have never owned a Vortex, I can't afford them. Love to have one, but I do not see it on my radar anytime soon. So to be clear, my observation is not based on a personal experience, only as an observer.

Mike DeNeve, Indiana
Old 02-11-2006, 10:25 AM
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Jerry-B
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

Hi
I have had only one Vortex but of all the 50 or 60 Q500 plane I have had it was the BEST. My Neme Qs are a very very close 2nd. My Vortex was perfectly straight!! and
very well reinforced in the front of the fuse. A few years ago at the NATS in the Q500 finals I had 2 first place finishes in heats 1 and 2 and then some fellow from Phoenix
cut off my tail about 30 feet from taking off. I too could not afford a Vortex but it was given to me by the GREAT guy that was calling for me at the nats DAVEN !!!!
Old 02-11-2006, 10:58 AM
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js3
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

Hey Splatt,

I love the "splat" in your logo!
Old 02-11-2006, 12:14 PM
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

Another quick question..... what airfoil does the NemeQ and BOP use.

Roger S.
Old 02-11-2006, 12:28 PM
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daven
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

Well, here goes. Not trying to start a war, just my personal opinions.

I've had 6 Vortexes (down to 3), so I may be a little biased. I've also had 1 neme-Q and 2 neme-Q pluses, so I have a comparison there. I have have owned one BOP and flown several others. I have never flow a shotgun or slingshot, but have seen many of them.

Here is why I like the Vortex.

1. The craftsmanship is 2nd to none. I have never seen such a well constructed, straight, and strong quickee.

2. Taking off a Vortex is effortless, you hold full elevator and the plane pulls slowly off the ground. It does not jump up, just a nice shallow glide.

3. The plane is completely neutral in all axis. Any way you bank the plane, it continues its current direction.

4. All of them fly exactly the same. I've used the same program in my computer radio for the last three I have built and they all fly the same (if the balance is the same).

The Neme-Q plus is much better than the original Neme-Q. Where I feel it falls a "hair" short of the vortex is:

1. I don't think the tail needs to be as big as it is. I know Terrence was testing smaller tails, but not sure what he determined.

2. The wing and tail are not potted to the fuse. Minor maybe, but I think potting would be a more optimum design.

3. It flies very good, but IMO, not quite as smooth and neutral in all axis.

4. Take offs are good, but not quite as shallow. Takeoffs are important to me because we fly off of grass and you normally have to jerk the planes off the ground to make sure they do not get caught. Its tough for me to either not give elevator, or push down right after takeoff when flying of tarmac or cement.

5. I have flown both quite a bit, and my best time with a Vortex is a 1:09.01 in Muncie, and my best time with a Neme+ was a high 1:09 that same year (2004).

Here are my comments on the BOP.

1. Weight has always been an issue, many will say it doesn't matter, but just about every BOP I've seen is 4-5 oz heavier than the minimum. (Whereas Vortexes' and Nemes' are about 2 oz heavier than the minimum).

2. The wide point of the BOP is nearly a 1/4" wider than where it could be compared to the rules.

3. The BOP fuse is not nearly as stiff throughout as the Neme or Vortex.

4. I've never been a fan of the tail, no concrete evidence its slower, but I've just never felt that it was optimum.

5. The wing is nearly identical to the Vortex, although I don't believe Lyle uses the Washout that Chuck uses.

6. I've found balance is a little more critical on this plane, if you get it perfect, it flys very neutral, but still not as stable in knife as the Neme or Vortex.

I know Lyle has made some mods to the fuse, including additional carbon, etc.. The info above is based on BOP's prior to this year, I haven't seen a new one, but I know he has made some postive mods.

As to the shotgun / slingshot / Taipan, I don't have a lot of comments since I've never flown one. I know Darrol has done pretty good with them, as well as some of the guys in Colorado and out west. They have posted good times at events, but not sure if they have gone as fast as the Vortex or Neme. I guess I'd like to see Travis, Randy, or some of the other fast guys fly them and comment.

Thats it, didn't mean to tick anyone off. All good planes, and very close. My opinion is, I'm not as good a flyer as some of the top guys and need the best equiptment to be competitive.
Old 02-11-2006, 12:31 PM
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daven
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

Roger,

the BOP, Vortex, Seeker, R200 all use pretty much the same airfoil with slightly different chord lengths (Naca 66-012)

The Neme-Q Plus uses a similar airfoil, but its a little "tweaked" and has different wingtips (Hoerner style).

Not sure what the Slingshot/Shotgun/Taipan uses.
Old 02-11-2006, 12:53 PM
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Randy Etken
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

Breaks my heart to see that beautiful wing on that scum bag Leeker fuse.
Old 02-11-2006, 02:11 PM
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Randy Etken
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

Sorry about that "Scum Bag". I was in my mean mood.
Old 02-11-2006, 02:40 PM
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daven
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

No offense, all in good fun
Old 02-11-2006, 07:52 PM
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P. Johnson
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

Dan, I used to buy airplanes from your dad several years ago, both were great flyers. The Aerostar was probably the quicker of the 2 in the turns due to the 15% airfoil (P-51 tips) but the nitro was faster in the straights (12% airfoil). For those who have never seen the wings on these, they were probably the first designs with laminar flow airfoils and a glass fuselage. I always liked the design even though the fuse shape was basically a scat cat. I still like the design and would fly one today if I still had one. here are a couple of pictures from the past.
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Old 02-13-2006, 12:18 PM
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

You certainly got to like Dan U.'s enthusiasm. You can have the fastest "pos" (plane, motor, radio gear) in the country, but if you can't put it on the sticks for ten laps...you're going to lose. Get yourself in tune with your caller, very important. LEARN, what prop fits your flying style and what prop fits your motor... I speak no BS, I've won Q500 at the Nats 4 times in the last 6 years...

Trying to beat the likes of, Travis Flynn, Dan Kane, Fred Burgdorf, Gino Delponte, Gary Freeman Jr, Gary Schmidt, Jim Allen, Mike Helsel, Deb Jett, Mark Parker, and Dave Norman (the list is deep)...it's very, very hard... You need to have all your nuts tight. I'm not being harsh, but pylon has come to that level. You need to surround yourself with people that can perform, people you can bounce constructive ideas off of... most of all, copy what the fast guys do. And Have Fun!!

DN, great job with your answers.

Lastly, I'm not being mean, please don't take it that way.. just trying to be fair in informing you.

Randy Bridge
Old 02-13-2006, 12:50 PM
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Default RE: best setup speak out!!!

ORIGINAL: Randy Etken

Sorry about that "Scum Bag". I was in my mean mood.
Mean mood?? Must have been one too many Vodka's on Friday night


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