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Why the big price difference??

Old 09-16-2010, 08:07 PM
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CGCINC
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Default Why the big price difference??

1 Magnum XL.91

2 O.S. FS.91

3 SAITO FA91S

4 Thunder Tiger F.91S


What makes the price so different in these engines. I'm sure you get what you pay for but is the Magnum motor a decent engine?
I am planning on buying THIS kit and installing one of these motors.....Saito makes the FA100 which I might consider as well.
Old 09-16-2010, 08:18 PM
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Gray Beard
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Default RE: Why the big price difference??

This is a very old topic and been done to death but yes, you get what you pay for. Do yourself a favor and do a search on Nitroplanes, go look in the ARF section. I haven't assembled the P-51 for anyone but I have assembled a lot of there other planes, do the search before you buy, these are very low end ARFs and take a bit of extra work during the assembly. Hate to see you run into a big surprise during your first assembly, there are a few reasons why they are so much cheaper then others.
Old 09-16-2010, 08:23 PM
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nh4clo4
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Default RE: Why the big price difference??

I Have 2 Magnum 91 fs and a 30fs, All three fire right up idle great and have been excellent power. I also have OS 48 had 30fs and Saito 65.
The magnum need to be properly broken in, and take a little longer. But all three of mine have been great.
ED 
Old 09-16-2010, 08:26 PM
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da Rock
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Default RE: Why the big price difference??

The manufacturers make the price what they can.

Repeat customers and reputation seem to be the reason some are way more expensive than others. OS for example makes over a quarter of a million motors a year. And sells them at the prices they ask. Reputation?

McCoy used to sell engines at about half the price of similar sized OS engines back in the 70s. If you figured out how to run the McCoys and not burn 'em up, they were a heck of a deal. OS is still doing what they did back then. If Magnum keeps making good engines, they might be around in 30 years too.
Old 09-16-2010, 09:46 PM
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Default RE: Why the big price difference??


ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

This is a very old topic and been done to death but yes, you get what you pay for. Do yourself a favor and do a search on Nitroplanes, go look in the ARF section. I haven't assembled the P-51 for anyone but I have assembled a lot of there other planes, do the search before you buy, these are very low end ARFs and take a bit of extra work during the assembly. Hate to see you run into a big surprise during your first assembly, there are a few reasons why they are so much cheaper then others.
I'm sure this question pops up all the time but I'm just trying to make some educated purchases. I've got an O.S. 40 that I'm sticking on an Uproar But I want a Warbird and instead of electric I want a nice throaty motor sound.
That kit from Nitroplanes IS cheap soI'm sure its not the quality of the better name brands but would get me into aWarbird for a decent price. Whatwould be the extra work needed??? Are they missing bracing inside or anything that would create problems in flight? Since you've assembled kits from Nitro, whats the difference between Nitroplanes and say, Hangar 9... They have a nice P47 kit.
I've bought two foam electrics from Nitroplanes... A Cessnatrainer and a P47 that has really nice detail for a foam plane.They both fly finebut I'm trying to slow step into a Balsa plane to get a better look andhopefully a little more realisticfeel with the gasengine. These electrics just pop into the sky with no effort..... I want to taxi down the runway and overcome some weight to take off just like the real thing.

So the O.S. FS.91 engine says it's a 4 stroke RINGED with PUMP???? what is ringed and what is the pump for? Why don't the other engines say that and will I need to buy the pump for the other engines?
Old 09-16-2010, 09:51 PM
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Default RE: Why the big price difference??

All of them work.

The higher priced engines are also produced in Japan rather than china or Taiwan which adds to the cost.

There are also some quality differences. They often aren't huge differences and they may not make any difference to you at all. You just have to decide what you want from an engine and what you are willing to pay for it.

I have owned them all and I prefer the OS for many reasons but that's just me. Plenty of airplanes are flying just fine with the others.

I agree with Graybeard, be cautious with that P-51. ARF's from that distributor are hit and miss. For someone experienced who doesn't need great instructions and doesn't mind taking the extra steps to make them right, they can be a good bargain. If not, they can be a huge frustration.

Also, a P-51 from any manufacturer is definitely not a great plane if you are just starting out. It isn't even appropriate for a second airplane. If you progress slowly, with the proper type of airplanes, you will be much happier with a Mustang when you get to that point.
Old 09-16-2010, 09:52 PM
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Default RE: Why the big price difference??

So the O.S. FS.91 engine says it's a 4 stroke RINGED with PUMP???? what is ringed and what is the pump for? Why don't the other engines say that and will I need to buy the pump for the other engines?
Ringed means it incorporates a piston ring - like a car engine - as opposed to just a tight friction fit. Easier to break-in but it adds a failure point (broken ring - scored cylinder - big $ fix)

The pump moves glow fuel (not "gas") into the carb more evenly than an exhaust pressurized tank as non-pump glow engines do.
Old 09-16-2010, 10:02 PM
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Default RE: Why the big price difference??


ORIGINAL: Charlie P.

So the O.S. FS.91 engine says it's a 4 stroke RINGED with PUMP???? what is ringed and what is the pump for? Why don't the other engines say that and will I need to buy the pump for the other engines?
Ringed means it incorporates a piston ring - like a car engine - as opposed to just a tight friction fit. Easier to break-in but it adds a failure point (broken ring - scored cylinder - big $ fix)

The pump moves glow fuel (not "gas") into the carb more evenly than an exhaust pressurized tank as non-pump glow engines do.
Ahhh HA, Thanks! So can you add a pump to most glow engines?
Honestly, I've never had a nitro motor apart so I just "assumed" they all had rings, all motor have to have rings!? I can't believe they can spin so many rpm's and not seize without a ring.

Also, a P-51 from any manufacturer is definitely not a great plane if you are just starting out. It isn't even appropriate for a second airplane. If you progress slowly, with the proper type of airplanes, you will be much happier with a Mustang when you get to that point.
This is going to be a winter project so more than likely I won't be flying it till next spring. I REALLY don't want a P51 but the price was so good and it looked nice so I thought, ehh!?!? BUT, now I think I'll ditch that idea after reading Gray Beards comments. I love the P47's and Hangar 9 has a nice one so maybe I could do that. It would be more work/moneybut might be the better choice for quality.
Old 09-16-2010, 10:03 PM
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Default RE: Why the big price difference??

Engines made in Japan cost more than engines made in Korea, Taiwan or China because Japanese workers get paid more than workers in Korea, Taiwan or China. Import duties for products from Japan are also a bit higher than for products from the other three countries. All in all it adds up to Japanese produced products costing significantly more than equivalent products form other sources.

Personally I own Saito. Fantastic engines in every respect. Despite that fact, however, my next 4-stroke purchase will most likely be a Magnum brand engine simply because of that lower cost. The quality difference is nowhere near what it used to be, and Magnum (and ASP, same engines different name) make some fantastic engines now. It takes a bit more pre-break in prep as there have been instances of some engines still having some machining debris inside after assembly, but that's a simple case of disassembling and cleaning the engine before breaking it in.

I would have no hesitation at all in purchasing Magnum or ASP, just as I would have no hesitation buying another Saito if I could afford one. On the other hand I don't consider OS to be enough worth the extra to be willing to pay for one.
Old 09-16-2010, 10:03 PM
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Default RE: Why the big price difference??


ORIGINAL: Charlie P.

Ringed means it incorporates a piston ring - like a car engine - as opposed to just a tight friction fit. Easier to break-in but it adds a failure point (broken ring - scored cylinder - big $ fix)
You've got some mistakes there. Neither ringed nor ABC-type engines are hard to break in. They're just different. Ringed engines generally take a bit longer. The break in methods are different for each type. A broken ring is cheap to fix, and a scored cylinder isn't as much of a problem (it's the ring that provides the compression, after all). An ABC-type with a scored cylinder is much pricier to fix.

To the OP:

Buy whatever catches your imagination and eye. Part of the joy of this hobby is trying different things. Getting stuck on one brand early on can cause you to miss out on a lot of great options.

Old 09-16-2010, 10:34 PM
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Default RE: Why the big price difference??

I fly with a Magnum engine and I can't complain about it. It's not a bad engine, but it's also not as good as an OS or Saito. The OS is the one you buy if all you want to do is take it out of the box, install the carb and muffler, and fire it up. The quality control is so good and the factory service is competent if you do manage to get a bad one. Saito make more horsepower than any other 4 stroke, and their quality is right up there with OS. The Magnums are more of a crap shoot. You may get one that's exactly right from the box, or you may have some air leaks to fix. The Magnum may cost you two or three extra hours of your hobby time to get running reliably so you can fly. It may also need new bearings sooner than the OS or Saito. Some guys would rather pay more and have a better built engine that's easier to deal with, and some guys would rather save their money and put more time in. It's your call.

One thing I will comment on that you've said in the thread is buying things because you like the price. Airframes are not a place to save money. Cheaply built planes need an experienced hand to go over them to be sure they are right. The cheapest way to do this hobby is to buy quality equipment and take care of it. That way, you get to actually keep it and use it instead of leave it in the dumpster at the end of your flying day.
Old 09-16-2010, 10:46 PM
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Default RE: Why the big price difference??


ORIGINAL: jester_s1

I fly with a Magnum engine and I can't complain about it. It's not a bad engine, but it's also not as good as an OS or Saito. The OS is the one you buy if all you want to do is take it out of the box, install the carb and muffler, and fire it up. The quality control is so good and the factory service is competent if you do manage to get a bad one. Saito make more horsepower than any other 4 stroke, and their quality is right up there with OS. The Magnums are more of a crap shoot. You may get one that's exactly right from the box, or you may have some air leaks to fix. The Magnum may cost you two or three extra hours of your hobby time to get running reliably so you can fly. It may also need new bearings sooner than the OS or Saito. Some guys would rather pay more and have a better built engine that's easier to deal with, and some guys would rather save their money and put more time in. It's your call.
Interesting statements. Saitos are the most powerful? I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that with a straight face. Generally it's YS, with OS and TT next, then Saito, and Magnum falling below the YS but varying due to QC inconsistencies. Saitos also have a rep for shipping with bearings that need replacement sooner than they should.

Old 09-17-2010, 12:45 AM
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Default RE: Why the big price difference??


ORIGINAL: CGCINC


ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

This is a very old topic and been done to death but yes, you get what you pay for. Do yourself a favor and do a search on Nitroplanes, go look in the ARF section. I haven't assembled the P-51 for anyone but I have assembled a lot of there other planes, do the search before you buy, these are very low end ARFs and take a bit of extra work during the assembly. Hate to see you run into a big surprise during your first assembly, there are a few reasons why they are so much cheaper then others.
I'm sure this question pops up all the time but I'm just trying to make some educated purchases. I've got an O.S. 40 that I'm sticking on an Uproar But I want a Warbird and instead of electric I want a nice throaty motor sound.
That kit from Nitroplanes IS cheap so I'm sure its not the quality of the better name brands but would get me into a Warbird for a decent price. What would be the extra work needed??? Are they missing bracing inside or anything that would create problems in flight? Since you've assembled kits from Nitro, whats the difference between Nitroplanes and say, Hangar 9... They have a nice P47 kit.
I've bought two foam electrics from Nitroplanes... A Cessna trainer and a P47 that has really nice detail for a foam plane. They both fly fine but I'm trying to slow step into a Balsa plane to get a better look and hopefully a little more realistic feel with the gas engine. These electrics just pop into the sky with no effort..... I want to taxi down the runway and overcome some weight to take off just like the real thing.

So the O.S. FS.91 engine says it's a 4 stroke RINGED with PUMP???? what is ringed and what is the pump for? Why don't the other engines say that and will I need to buy the pump for the other engines?
I said I haven't assembled there P-51 ARF but if you take a short trip to the ARF forum and look it up or ask I'm sure you will find out a lot about the plane. They are just very cheaply made and I often {always} have to reinforce there planes in several places, nothing new about that, these are ARFs. Places like Horizon have much better quality control and much better designs but the prices reflect that.
My main four strokes are YS and OS. All the YS engines have a type of fuel injection so they are pumped by pressure. The OS .91 doesn't have to be a pumper, the non pumped are cheaper and work just fine. None of my .91s are pumpers. All of the 1.20s I have had were/are. I like pumped engines but they just give me constant running no mater of the planes attitude. Being able to install the fuel tank anyplace in the plane I want is another big plus. For most people pumpers are not something they must have, I just happen to like them. It's a choice thing. To date the only time I have ever broken a ring is during assembly so it's a mute point. When speaking about four strokes you will also hear about adjusting the valves, I check mine once a year, most the time they are just fine and require no adjustment. I also like ringed engines, some two strokes have them and some don't, another one of those choice things.
The reason you should start doing searches on topics is you will find pages and pages on topics you are wondering about. You will see the same answers and usually pages of them. Due to prices these days when I need to buy a new four stroke engine I go right to YS, another choice thing. I see a lot of misinformation said about them and there needs but it's usually hear say from the peanut gallery and not for people that have owned and operated them. They are not a good idea for someones first try with four strokes. My own choices are OS then Saito for people new to glow and four strokes. Magnums quality is hit or miss but they sell due to price. Hobby People have them on sale all the time, being cheap they will sell and some people are happy with them. Not me but they have a following.
Old 09-17-2010, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: Why the big price difference??

Hi!
In the sixties Super-Tigre of Italy discovered the ABC piston /cylinder for their racing 2,5cc two strokes. So today if you want a high performance engine a non ringed engine (ABC, ABN or AAC ) will put out more performance than a ringed one.

Most four strokes however uses a piston rig as these engines are not that powerful or more correctly ...are not producing power at high rpm like two strokes do.

Pumped four stroke or not is not important. Most are non pumped!

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